help with cabot, b/card and cca

[ScarletPimpernel]

With regards to your referral to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act. I must respectfully advise you that this subsection of the Act has been repealed and therefore you cannot rely on this. Futhermore you have not suffered any prejudice, the agreement will be enforceable as you have used the funds available to you and failed to repy them as evidenced by the statements we have enclosed again.

 

Really? Are they referring to the CCA 2006 - which only applies to agreements made after the middle of this year?

[Seahorse]

I do believe they are, SP. I do believe they are.

 

So they are either:-

a) Trying to hoodwink by giving false advice, or

b) Have a legal team so stupid that they don't deserve to be drawing their wages.

 

I really can't think of another explanation. But I admit the possibility that one exists. However infinitesimally remote that possibility might be.

 

I'm going for answer a, though. You all make up your own minds.

[Seahorse]

You can read the post here... Cabot. Confused? at Cabot Financial Blog

 

But for those that can't be bothered, here's what I have written...

 

Cabot. Confused?

 

Well, it would appear that Cabot are advising their “customers” that they can no longer rely on Section 127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This is what they have to say on the matter…

With regards to your referral to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act. I must respectfully advise you that this subsection of the Act has been repealed and therefore you cannot rely on this. Futhermore you have not suffered any prejudice, the agreement will be enforceable as you have used the funds available to you and failed to repy them as evidenced by the statements we have enclosed again.

Sorry, Cabot. I must regretfully tell you that you are in error once more. What you say applies to credit agreements regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 2006. This Act is NOT retrospective. So all agreements regulated by the CCA 1974 ARE still able to rely on section 127 (3) of that act, however much you wish that this were not the case.

To be kind, I am going to assume that you are accidentally mistaken. Otherwise, the only explanation I can come up with is, you are trying to falsely advise your customers on a point of law, which is at best in breach of OFT guidlines. That can’t possibly be true, can it?

So to anyone reading this who is so advised by Cabot regarding this matter, I trust this has put your mind at rest. But I’ll leave you with one final thought… for Cabot to be issuing this advice, they appear therefore to acknowledge that Section 127 (3) of the CCA 1974 completely blows their earlier arguments that any old scrap of paper can be assumed to be a valid agreement, right out of the water.

I think you would have to concede that point, wouldn’t you Willem?

[Newborn]

So they're falsely using this to claim that a document has a legal force it doesn't actually have. Now where was that latest OFT guidance ..... ?

 

Newborn

[Windywoo]

Well, thanks to Seahorse re post 31, and help from all CAGers, I jave compiled my latest masterpiece to Cabot, and sorry Cabot, I just had to point out the error of your ways!!

 

I will update my own thread!

[ScarletPimpernel]

I

Trying to hoodwink by giving false advice

 

Surely Cabot aren't "leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge", because this would be directly contrary to the OFT guidance, and would surely result in a formal complaint?

[andrew1]

Surely Cabot aren't "leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors' lack of knowledge", because this would be directly contrary to the OFT guidance, and would surely result in a formal complaint?

 

 

They wouldn't dream of doing such a thing

[karen654321]

Hiya, Ive had a letter this morning from cabot financial. I thought they had forgotten about me lol.

 

I cant scan but its only a short letter so i will copy it.

 

Dear miss xxxxxx

Your cabot account

We havent received any repayment proposal from you.

Its vital that you either pay the full outstanding balance of £1115.48 or send us your payment proposal without delay.

If we dont hear from you

As explained in our previous letter, well resume our telephone procedure if you dont send your full payment of payment proposal within 7 days from the date of this letter.

 

yours sincerely

 

peter anderson

customer liason manager

 

 

 

Now firstly they havent provided me with a cca just and application form.

secondly i havent had a previous letter explaining there telephone procedure. I dont know what they mean by this.

 

Any ideas what i should do or reply?

 

thanks very much and happy new year

 

karen

[Seahorse]

Try this...

 

Dear Mr Anderson,

 

Thank you for your letter dated (whenever). As requested, I herewith detail my proposal for payment:

 

£0.00

 

I shall of course be pleased to recalculate that figure once I have absolute proof that the debt you allege I owe exists, or is otherwise due to you.

 

Until such time as you comply with my earlier request for a copy of any properly executed credit agreement, I must insist that you accept my very generous proposal.

 

Regards,

 

Karen

[karen654321]

Thanks seahorse. That is an absolute brilliant letter. When they state about the telephone procedure what to they actually mean? I presume it means pester me by phone.

 

Im going to send that letter recorded delivery and i cant wait for my reply.

 

thanks once again

 

karen

[Seahorse]

It's a template, so they can't possibly edit the telephone procedure bit out. That would require a degree of coherent thought and individuality.

 

Ignore it. They know full well that it's one thing to ignore guidelines, and quite another to leave themselves open to a charge of criminal harrassment.

 

Peter, if you or your minions are reading this, take heed. We're not fecking about here.

[karen654321]

Hiya ive today recieved a letter from barclaycard.

 

Dear miss *****

 

I refer to your complaint you raised with the fso.

 

I have reviewed your complaint and detail my findings

 

You have been contated by cabot f s about a barclaycard debt which you say does not relate to you. You have asked for a copy of the cca as proof of the debt.

 

A barclaycard account was opened in your name in december 1994 on receipt of the application form attatched. The account was sold to cabot financial services in august 2004. They are now the legal owners.

 

By signing the application form you have agreed to be bound by the terms of the agreement. I have enclosed a copy of the barclaycard conditions as the terms your credit card agreement may have been varied since the date it was entered into.

 

In requesting a signed copy of your agreement, we make reference to the consumer credit ( cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 which states that there is no requiremnt for the copy of an executed agreement to contain any signature box any ate and signature.

 

We believe that the information enclosed completes our obligation to supply the information and copy documents under section 78 of the cca1974.

 

yours sincerely

 

 

Any help in what i should do next would be great.

 

thanks

 

karen

[42man]

ok so they believe they have carried out their side of the obligation ? without wanting to go through lots of threads K, is the agreement enforceable ? does it have prescribed terms ?

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the 26th July 2007.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else. I would also like to note that as from the (12+2 working days + 30 calendar days) it becomes a criminal offence.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

[karen654321]

Hiya thank for that. So basically you are saying to cca them again and wait

 

thanks

[42man]

Is the agrrement enforceable K ?

[karen654321]

Hiya i dont believe it is. I cant scan at the moment.

 

basically at top its headed barclaycard application.

 

It asks for my name, address, work details, any additional card holders, if i want ppi, its got a box saying applicants signature, there its states this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, (sign if you want to be legally bound by its terms. Just above this statement there is a box that is headed credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 and its completely blacked out so cannot see what would have been in there. And at the bottom there is some small print which i cant read at all.

 

This is all it contains on this appliction form.

 

thanks

[Jaws75]

Hi" any updates on this matter? been following with interest

[mrmarmite]

Hiya i dont believe it is. I cant scan at the moment.

 

basically at top its headed barclaycard application.

 

It asks for my name, address, work details, any additional card holders, if i want ppi, its got a box saying applicants signature, there its states this is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974, (sign if you want to be legally bound by its terms. Just above this statement there is a box that is headed credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 and its completely blacked out so cannot see what would have been in there. And at the bottom there is some small print which i cant read at all.

 

This is all it contains on this appliction form.

 

thanks

 

just stick to it. i been there with vanquis and cabot, same thing, application form, they gave up and "sold" it back to vanquis

[karen654321]

Hiya, no update as yet. Im sure i will hear soon though

 

karen