Lloyds TSB Andover Recovery Centre. - Success

[kits1893]

Having just had success in claiming back a percentage of my bank charges, I would like to think that my experience with the Andover Recovery Centre may be useful to others in my situation.

 

This forum is mainly posted on by people who will go all the way to court in order to get their charges back. My personal view is that surely something is better than nothing. Also if Lloyds do chose that I am one of the cases that they will make an example of by closing my account, I will be left with a very basic account due to my credit rating. Not the full current with overdraft, great internet banking service, cheque guarentee card and VISA debit that I have now.

 

Lets face it, this is money that's gone, and the attitude of having gained for example 50% is more satisfying than having lost 50%.

 

If you go through the correct motions and say the correct things, a £750.00 "gesture of good will" is reasonably easy to extract from this bank. The tricky part is to actually contact someone at the Andover Recovery Centre, where most complaints end up.

 

I sent the standard first letter and got the standard reply of "we don't refund anything" letter, so sent letter 2 threatening court action on a specific date. The wording of the letter is important, as is sending it recorded delivery. If you use standard post they will ignor it. I recieved a letter from Lloyds Andover Recovery Centre 3 days before the date I had threatened court action asking for more time to consider my complaint.

 

So now I am thinking, fine, if you need more time there is no point in fighting it, but I need to know how much time exactly, and negotiate a new deadline date.

 

The Andover Centre phone line is a funny thing. Firstly you get the standard Lloyds recorded, "welcome to lloyds tsb bla bla," asking you to press 1 if your call is regarding a bank charges complaint. After a few times pressing 1 and getting nowhere I decided to listen to the other options, of which there are none!! So why press 1 when this is the only option anyway. After pressing 1 it asks you a few more automated questions, which it cutts you straight off if you get them "wrong", it rings a few times, plays a sorry busy message and cuts you off. This must have happned to me 100 times! So don't bother.

 

What i found worked, was sending a very sarcastic fax enquiring as to whether the centre even exists, acknowledging the stall letter and advising that as you now expect no further response by the deadline date, that unless you recieve contact from them within 24 hours with an exact date when a response will be recieved, that you will take court action immediatly.

 

Sure enough it took them 3 hours to call me to inform me that "my case had been reviewed this morning and an offer will b made. A letter has been written which I will recieve within 10 days. No, the amount cannot be disclosed over the phone. Sorry." Anyway within 2 days an offer of the standard £750. Not a bad amount for 2 letters and a fax.

 

Now for me, the money was gone to start with, and getting money back is nothing but a bonus. As much as we now realise that these charges are unjust, at the end of the day we all spent, or tried to spend money that we didn't have, for what ever reason. If Lloyds withdrew our money in mistake we would be the first to demand compensating. Now I'm not saying I agree with the charges, but to get into a situation where we pay thousands in charges over 6 years means some pretty bad money management. A one off, yes. A mistake. 100 times?? For me unnessesary and mainly my fault.

 

Another view on this is that we will probably need services from our banks in the future. If the bank doesn't close accounts they are capable of making life quite difficult in the future. A friend of mine recently got back nearly 3k from Abby. Last week he went overdrawn by 2p, 2p!!! and they charged him £70!!! Lawful?? NO! but he now has to spend another 4 months and possible court action over £70? They will always take now and argue over it later. Surely to graciously take £750 and retain a good current account service is better than nothing, or the alternative. At the time we never expected to see any of it again.

 

For those who have nothing to lose, ie. no overdraft, a couple of quality current accounts, a good credit rating and access to what ever credit you need, then I say go for it and I hope you win. No one wants to see Lloyds out of pocket more than I do!! But the natue of the complaint sugests that the majority of people making these complaints will not be in that situation. Consider carefully whether it's worth it. I have fought my way back to a reasonable financial situation and plan on keeping it. If I lost my account services I would be put back a couple of years.

 

Just something to bare in mind!

[nicsussex]

Firstly - LLoyds very rarely close accounts. Secondly, unforunately Lloyds will view this as a case that they have won. You say that £750 for writing 2 letters and a fax can't be bad - from there point of view they have £750 of your money that they haven't even had to do that for.

[nicsussex]

Having read your post again - can I ask a straightforward question? Do you work for or have any connection to any UK bank or finanacial institution?

[Kazzie]

My personal view is that surely something is better than nothing. That would be true if we were in a 'something or nothing' situation, but we're not. We are in a situation where we can decide to choose 'everything' over 'something' or 'nothing'

 

Lets face it, this is money that's gone, and the attitude of having gained for example 50% is more satisfying than having lost 50%. But none the less, it's still a loss when 100% is available, and 100% is far far more satisfying:D

 

 

 

If Lloyds withdrew our money in mistake we would be the first to demand compensating. They have been withdrawing our money, but in a calculated act of greed rather than in error, and yes, we are very much demanding compensation.

 

.Now I'm not saying I agree with the charges, but to get into a situation where we pay thousands in charges over 6 years means some pretty bad money management. For some maybe, but try telling that to the thousands of people who suddenly find their financial circumstances change through no fault of their own.

 

Another view on this is that we will probably need services from our banks in the future. But not as much as they will need our services in the future.

 

If the bank doesn't close accounts they are capable of making life quite difficult in the future. I doubt this will happen, not while 10/12 banks are competing for the custom of an adult population of approx 50 million.

 

Thankfully we are all different and i respect your right to be happy over a partial victory, though i really don't understand your reasons why.

 

You seem to be basing your decision not to take your claim all the way on the fact that you may lose your bank account, when as nicsussex says, there's very little evidence to back this up.

 

I'm sure there will be some who will find your post useful who for various (and valid) reasons are not up for the fight, and some who choose not to take it all the way because they genuinely have something to lose. For the rest of us though, IMO, this goes against the whole spirit of the site.

 

The very fact that i can claim back 100% or you can claim back 30, 40 or 50%, rests entirely on our being able to 'stand on the shoulders of giants', and as those giants chose to take it all the way (thankfully for us!) i think we owe it to them to carry things on in the same spirit as they started it.

 

Well done anyway for getting anything back, and good luck if you ever decide to take it all the way;)

[podgydad]

Having just had success in claiming back a percentage of my bank charges, I would like to think that my experience with the Andover Recovery Centre may be useful to others in my situation.

 

This forum is mainly posted on by people who will go all the way to court in order to get their charges back. My personal view is that surely something is better than nothing. Also if Lloyds do chose that I am one of the cases that they will make an example of by closing my account, I will be left with a very basic account due to my credit rating. Not the full current with overdraft, great internet banking service, cheque guarentee card and VISA debit that I have now.

 

Lets face it, this is money that's gone, and the attitude of having gained for example 50% is more satisfying than having lost 50%.

 

If you go through the correct motions and say the correct things, a £750.00 "gesture of good will" is reasonably easy to extract from this bank. The tricky part is to actually contact someone at the Andover Recovery Centre, where most complaints end up.

 

I sent the standard first letter and got the standard reply of "we don't refund anything" letter, so sent letter 2 threatening court action on a specific date. The wording of the letter is important, as is sending it recorded delivery. If you use standard post they will ignor it. I recieved a letter from Lloyds Andover Recovery Centre 3 days before the date I had threatened court action asking for more time to consider my complaint.

 

So now I am thinking, fine, if you need more time there is no point in fighting it, but I need to know how much time exactly, and negotiate a new deadline date.

 

The Andover Centre phone line is a funny thing. Firstly you get the standard Lloyds recorded, "welcome to lloyds tsb bla bla," asking you to press 1 if your call is regarding a bank charges complaint. After a few times pressing 1 and getting nowhere I decided to listen to the other options, of which there are none!! So why press 1 when this is the only option anyway. After pressing 1 it asks you a few more automated questions, which it cutts you straight off if you get them "wrong", it rings a few times, plays a sorry busy message and cuts you off. This must have happned to me 100 times! So don't bother.

 

What i found worked, was sending a very sarcastic fax enquiring as to whether the centre even exists, acknowledging the stall letter and advising that as you now expect no further response by the deadline date, that unless you recieve contact from them within 24 hours with an exact date when a response will be recieved, that you will take court action immediatly.

 

Sure enough it took them 3 hours to call me to inform me that "my case had been reviewed this morning and an offer will b made. A letter has been written which I will recieve within 10 days. No, the amount cannot be disclosed over the phone. Sorry." Anyway within 2 days an offer of the standard £750. Not a bad amount for 2 letters and a fax.

 

Now for me, the money was gone to start with, and getting money back is nothing but a bonus. As much as we now realise that these charges are unjust, at the end of the day we all spent, or tried to spend money that we didn't have, for what ever reason. If Lloyds withdrew our money in mistake we would be the first to demand compensating. Now I'm not saying I agree with the charges, but to get into a situation where we pay thousands in charges over 6 years means some pretty bad money management. A one off, yes. A mistake. 100 times?? For me unnessesary and mainly my fault.

 

Another view on this is that we will probably need services from our banks in the future. If the bank doesn't close accounts they are capable of making life quite difficult in the future. A friend of mine recently got back nearly 3k from Abby. Last week he went overdrawn by 2p, 2p!!! and they charged him £70!!! Lawful?? NO! but he now has to spend another 4 months and possible court action over £70? They will always take now and argue over it later. Surely to graciously take £750 and retain a good current account service is better than nothing, or the alternative. At the time we never expected to see any of it again.

 

For those who have nothing to lose, ie. no overdraft, a couple of quality current accounts, a good credit rating and access to what ever credit you need, then I say go for it and I hope you win. No one wants to see Lloyds out of pocket more than I do!! But the natue of the complaint sugests that the majority of people making these complaints will not be in that situation. Consider carefully whether it's worth it. I have fought my way back to a reasonable financial situation and plan on keeping it. If I lost my account services I would be put back a couple of years.

 

Just something to bare in mind!

 

Tell me, if someone broke in to your house and stole all your possessions , and then when caught offered to give you half your stuff back, would you regard that as an equally fair outcome?

 

The bank took your money unlawfully, why should they keep any of it?

[kits1893]

Having read your post again - can I ask a straightforward question? Do you work for or have any connection to any UK bank or finanacial institution?

 

 

Absolutly not at all. Never have never would. And I certainly won't be getting into the position where these institutons have any excuse to take so much of my money again! If I hadn't in the first place I wouldn't be writing this now.

 

I do not condone the action of the banks in "stealing" our money", but we all know what we are getting ourselves into. And like I said, you can go over a couple of times at no fault of your own, and for the people that are owed thousands at no fault of their own I apologise, but for me, in heinsight it would probably have been avoidable.

[kits1893]

Tell me, if someone broke in to your house and stole all your possessions , and then when caught offered to give you half your stuff back, would you regard that as an equally fair outcome?

 

The bank took your money unlawfully, why should they keep any of it?

 

No but if a baliff broke in and took something that i hadn't paid for and then charged me for the privilage there would be nothing I could do!

 

In fact I would no doubt be ordered to pay by a court??!!??!!

[kits1893]

Firstly - LLoyds very rarely close accounts. Secondly, unforunately Lloyds will view this as a case that they have won. You say that £750 for writing 2 letters and a fax can't be bad - from there point of view they have £750 of your money that they haven't even had to do that for.

 

Very probably. But lets face it, we are all just jumping on a band wagon here. If no-one had taken action on this in the first place no-one would have a leg to stand on.

 

Also Lloyds will lose out over all, but at the end of the day the consumer will always pay in the end. Whether it be hiked overdraft interest rates, more strict controles over penalty charges (ie. removing the £10 buffer zone) or higher account charges. Will probably end up giving them as much back over the next 30 years anyway.

 

Not to mention the financial implications on people who have never had a bank charge in their lives. My girlfriend went over by a couple of quid last week and got charged for it. Has never happened before. Their justification was that the £10 buffer no longer exists on any accounts. They refunded it this time and told her if it happens again they will not refund and she will have to lodge a formal complaint.

 

Surely a happy compromise is a better solution. Someone will always pay and it won't be the bank in the end. I have £750 today that I didn't have yesterday. For me this is a good thing.

[kits1893]

Well done anyway for getting anything back, and good luck if you ever decide to take it all the way;)

 

Thank you.

 

We are all on the same side here. As I said in my original post, no one wants to see them lose out as much as I do. But although each individual refunded charge is insignificant, as a mass movement it is pretty serious.

 

As someone said in one of their posts, the banks are competing for our business... at the moment. But imagine if one or two of these banks are taken out. The remaining big boys who can ride this out will have absolute power over the way they work and what they do. They will then be able to charge what they want and get away with it. No FOS or small claims court will be able to stop it. Then we will have the choice of paying through the nose for account services with one of 3 or 4 banks, or having no bank accounts at all. An extreme situation I know but a movement this large will have wider future implications eventually. There's no way it can't, this is about billions of pounds nation wide. It will be flipped on us eventually. Let's not be naive enough to think that everyone in the country will get their charges back and the banks will go "oh well, that hurt, but business as usual then lads".

 

Eventually something will be done, a precident set and that will be an end to it. There will be an A B C solution to these complaints which will be supported by the courts. Possibly involving partial settlement. Then people who's claims are in process will lose out and will probably end up paying their own court fees. It can't go on forever. Make hay while the sun shines, get in, get what you can and get out. Personally I wouldn't invest any more money in the change of getting it back. Courts have already found in favour of a couple of banks. When it topples over the balance people making claims stand to lose more!! People who say "don't let this deter you in taking court action" are people who can afford to lose another few hundred quid if it goes wrong. This benifits no-one. I wonder if people who advise this are in the process of a claim themselves, or if they are people who have won and can't lose or aren't going to take the action they advise anyway. It's all very well to advise from the outside. I have read countless posts on this and other sites, and all I am doing is offering an alternative view point.

 

.

[Red Rebel]

Having read your post again - can I ask a straightforward question? Do you work for or have any connection to any UK bank or finanacial institution?

 

 

My thoughts exactly;) undercover agent:rolleyes:

[Titch28]

How much was your claim for?

[kits1893]

My thoughts exactly;) undercover agent:rolleyes:

 

Again I say. Absolutly not. I'm a recruiter. Nothing to do with banking or finance at all.

 

This site is about honesty. I am giving my opinions and offering something to think about. I have no ulterior motive for this at all.

[kits1893]

How much was your claim for?

 

Just short of £1800 excluding interest.

 

From what I can gather they band the gesture of good will against the claim amount. Friend of mine was claiming 4K from the same bank. His gesture of good will was £1000.

[muggyno1]

Hi,

 

Interesting thread but sorry Kits, I feel you are somewhat misguided.

 

• You are right, Lloyds always make a 'goodwill gesture' of £750 if your charges are greater than this. Apparently this is because that is the maximum the Customer Recovery Centre is authorised by senior management to offer. Even their own staff don't agree with this. If you were claiming £1,800 then they have gained £1,050 to add to their bottom line. They'll be laughing all the way to the bank. Lol.
  
• No bank will ever be taken out by this. Remember that the sector annual profit is tens of billions of pounds. These charges are a drop in the ocean.
  
• If you want more than £750 you have to take a more formal route.
  
• It's all very well saying that this is in part our own fault but remember that, in many cases it is a downward spiral caused by the charges in the first place.

Personally I took the ombudsman route and my experience is outlined in the thread Muggy V Lloyds

 

[muggyno1]

Sorry Muggyno1 v Lloyds TSB

[Titch28]

My claim is roughly the same amount as yours was Kits and there's no way I'll be content with £750 that's not even half what I'm claiming. I have to say I think Lloyds are shooting themselves in the foot here though beacause if they were to offer me 75% now I'd more than likely take it and they'd save themselves money by not having to pay interest, court costs, AQ costs & the last 25%.

£750 is the same amount they've offered to everyone whose thread I've read (that's a lot of threads) as a goodwill gesture it's got nothing to do with you're overall claim value.

Also I agree with Muggy, this could be all my own fault but if the charges hadn't been "stolen" from me in the first place I'd probably not have ended up in this situation.

Lastly the whole reason I'm claiming the full amount is to pay off my overdraft that these charges have helped me to create.

No fancy holidays for me or even new shoes! (OK maybe one pair but not Jimmy Choo's!)

 

T

[John72]

Sorry Kits, I just can't see that any of what you are saying makes sense. The fact is that in the absence of any unprompted unilateral gestures of "goodwill" from the banks (and I have to say that the "goodwill" gesture I have received was not banded commensurately in any way to my claim) the options are either to claim through the courts (or the FOS) or do nothing - and what happens when good men stand by and do nothing?

[jodybuk]

Don't wish to burst your bubble Kits but friend of mine settled for the £750.0 gwg and still had his o/d facility withdrawn so the perks of banking you're expecting to keep may very well be withdrawn soon.

Also- In response to you thinking that we have tried to draw money we didn't have - I can't speak for everyone but most of my charges were from going overdrawn BECAUSE of the charges. If lloyds didn't impose excessive & unlawful charges in the first place I wouldnt imagine half of us would have faced the finacial difficulties we did have to face.

I'm really pleased you are happy with your lot & I supose a partial settlement is still a partial victory but you could have had so much more for just a little more effort.

[kits1893]

Perhaps my situation is different to the majority of people reading this thread.

Firstly those who are not willing to accept the gesture of goodwill, this is not the end as far as comunication with your bank goes. If you want a bit more you can go back to the bank with an offer of your own, (of course always headed "without prejudice" or it would be produced by the bank during any court proceedings and the offer met there and then. I actually plan on this myself, but I will not go to court. The threat of court action, especially if you drop a couple of facts and timescales into any letters will prove to the bank that you are serious and give them a kick. Many will come back with a second offer.

 

I also have slight issues in so much court time going into these claims. Who is paying the wages of all the people who are dealing with these court claims? Or even the FOS clerks who send letters back and forwards to banks all day?? Ultimatly the public at the end of the day.

 

I suppose in all of this, the point I am trying to make is that I see a much better solution to these claims between the consumer and the bank, with out involving outside parties.

 

Maybe my attitude is different to others. I have an awful credit rating, have an average overdraft, a closed credit card account or 3, have had a car reposessed and can't currently get a contract mobile phone!! But I have no axe to grind with the bank and don't see the point in ruining my current position with them. A couple of grand now is not going to fix the problems I have. What would have fixed it in the first place is not overspending.

 

The people who should go for this all the way are the innocent people who have ended up in my position due to for example, redundancy or disability etc.

 

I do not proffess to be inoccent, have worked solidly for the past 6 years and if I had managed things correctly, would not be where I am now. In fact, some of the things Lloyds have done over the years in terms of adjusting my overdraft and meeting payments that they could have refused, has helped my situation from not being even worse.

 

Personally I will be going no further than through direct comunication between me and the bank. I do need their services and get a good service in any case.

 

In fact, for interest and information purposes, I will now go for extracting as much as I can from the bank with out using any courts or FOS. Have £750 already, so watch this space. Will put more detail in terms of the journey so far when I get time, and update new happenings.

 

Anyone think this would be of interest??

[Titch28]

Definitely let us know how you get on but I have a feeling this will take you ages to resolve directly with them.

 

I wish you good luck and prosperity.

 

T

[nicsussex]

You seem to be implying that the banks actually turn up in court - which of course is almost invariably not true. As for the costs of the court time - this is of course an issue - but this is being caused solely by the banks decision to act as 'vexatious defendants' - they know that their charges are unlawful yet continue to resist and file defences that they do not intend to back up in court.

 

Good luck with your new strategy of negotiating with the bank (frankly you will need it) - as we all know on the Lloyds forum the only thing that will make them pay back all that is rightfully yours is with the threat of annd commencement of litigation.

[royboy68]

If Lloyds withdrew our money in mistake we would be the first to demand compensating.

Kits I cant realy disagree with your reasons for accepting what you did but i must question the above statement.

Assume that a bank employee made a mistake and took £10 more from your account than they should and didnt notice till the day after, do you think they would give you the £10 back with a further £35. Then they dont see it for 3 days so now its £10 plus 3X£35. Assume that it dosnt get noticed for 3 months, just think at what they would owe you with all the 3X35 plus any fees we charge them. Unfortunately we dont have the same rights as the bank and thats why it unfair terms in the contract. Its all one way

[Redfaze]

I also have slight issues in so much court time going into these claims. Who is paying the wages of all the people who are dealing with these court claims? Or even the FOS clerks who send letters back and forwards to banks all day?? Ultimatly the public at the end of the day.

 

The FOS is funded by the banks, and i'm sorry i really don't buy your argument, the emphasis is on the banks to become more transparent and reveal their true costs. I for one do not dispute that they are entitled to levy a charge however i do dispute the excessive nature of the existing charges.

 

In fact, for interest and information purposes, I will now go for extracting as much as I can from the bank with out using any courts or FOS. Have £750 already, so watch this space. Will put more detail in terms of the journey so far when I get time, and update new happenings

 

How is this any different to taking the court or the FOS route? Are you expecting the bank to pay all your money back and give you a pat on the back for not taking them to court?

[kits1893]

If Lloyds withdrew our money in mistake we would be the first to demand compensating.

Kits I cant realy disagree with your reasons for accepting what you did but i must question the above statement.

Assume that a bank employee made a mistake and took £10 more from your account than they should and didnt notice till the day after, do you think they would give you the £10 back with a further £35. Then they dont see it for 3 days so now its £10 plus 3X£35. Assume that it dosnt get noticed for 3 months, just think at what they would owe you with all the 3X35 plus any fees we charge them. Unfortunately we dont have the same rights as the bank and thats why it unfair terms in the contract. Its all one way

 

However mistakes like this by banks are few and far between. Does anyone know of any bank that often "accidentally" take money out of accounts?? I don't. This is the glory of itemised statements and internet banking. We know what is in our accounts and where it goes,penny by penny. And we know what transaction will take us over our limits.

[Redfaze]

So which Lloyds TSB Branch do you work at then?