help needed regarding benefits and social...

[evelyndarling]

im not sure if any of this is covered on here, but i need a direction to draft up a letter to help my mother. basically she was on incapacity benefit which ceased in about july last year. they then gave her a month extra, which she didnt realise. then, they sent her a letter saying that they had over paid her and could they have it back please, but they stated in the letter they have no lawful right to request nor force back this payment. because they did not inform her though, and they never released her p60, she has continued to pay tax on the amount that she hasnt recieved since august, and was informed by the inland rev that she can get a rebate, just send them the P60. but the benefits office are refusing to release the P60. she cannot pay them back as she cant afford to and has told them that she will on a goodwill basis once she gets the over paid tax back which she cannot do without the P60 but they are saying no money no P60. is there any way i can make them give her the P60? can they really hold it back by law? they have already admitted in writing they have no right to force the money back...

 

if this is in the wrong place or no one knows can you redirect me as this is so important to me to help out my mother.

 

thanks, evee.

[Guest weegirl]

An employer doesn't actually release P60's to an employee who was not in their employment on the 5 April 2007, so they are talking absolute hogwash about giving you one anyway. They are just trying to get the money back to see if you will be soft enough to pay it.

 

Basically, the employer fills out a P14 - the manual form is in tripiclate - one of these copies is a P60, so figures are all the same. The 2 top copies go to the Revenue for their records, the P60 goes to the employee. Computerised records are the same. If the employee is not in their employment at the end of the tax year, the HMRC guidelines instruct the employer to scrap the P60.

 

If she was not receiving incapacity, where was she getting her income from? You mention she was paying tax, so whoever was paying her income at the 5 April 07 is responsible for issuing the P60.

 

It is silly anyway as the revenue has all of that information. It is standard practice that they ask for the P60, as every employer is compelled by law to issue these returns by the 19 May in the same tax year, but sometimes people do lose these forms and can have proplems getting duplicates, but you can still claim your refund. Everything will be there for them to trace. You could contact the Revenue directly and tell them what the DSS are doing, they will be able to trace your mum's details.

 

I wouldn't pay them back a penny, if they have already admitted they cannot demand this, they are being very underhand about this, disgraceful.

 

If you go to HM Revenue & Customs: Contact an Income Tax office for individuals you can do a search for your local HMRC office and ring them direct. Be prepared to get passed around a few places though, they are not very through themselves at times!

[Guest weegirl]

I forgot to mention, Incapacity doesn't even issue P60's anyway. I don't want to complicate matters, but they are not a business as such. They can issue a statement of what has been paid on a letterhead, if requested, but as already said the Revenue will have this on record.

 

If your mum got a private pension though, she should have a P60 from the company.

[evelyndarling]

see, she stopped getting incapacity as she went into work - she had had an accident that left her disabled in one arm, but has since started work as a carer. thats why it stopped. but the inland rev charged her tax as if she had a second income - ie. the incapacity benefit that didnt exist. the benefits office should have given her a P60 for 2006 but didnt, and this is what the inland rev want. i guess they are not prepared to do any of the running themselves. thanks for the advice, its helpful, but i really could do with something i can attack them with because as far as the IR are concerned they want a 2006 P60 and the benefits have said they DO have it, but the "computer wont release it until the money is paid back". my mother finds it hard to dal with these things so id love to be able to sort it out.

[Guest weegirl]

Right, she was taxed by the DSS, that is different. Most benefits are not taxable. This sounds typical of the DSS. You would have thought they would have thought they could easily check that another one of their departments were paying her or not and this wouldn't have happened to start with. And the computer wouldn't release it? If they are telling the truth, then they can't work the computer.

 

This is an absolute rubbish arguement as I assume that the return has been filed with the Revenue already? All P14 details (the same figures that are on a P60) have to, by law, be returned to the Revenue by the 19 May every year. You can contact the Revenue direct and find out if these have been filed, although they won't tell you direct, you will have to ring and put your mother on the phone to get the details. If the DSS have filed the P14, there is absolutely no reason as to why they will not release the P60 as the figures are exactly the same.

 

It doesn't matter if your mother owes money or not to the DSS, even if she did pay it back now, it is not standard practice to go into a previous tax year if the returns have already been filed, it will be in this year's tax year so this arguement about not releasing it until it has been paid doesn't add up. The only way that the Revenue will allow an employer to change a return is if there has been an error, but an overpayment is not the same thing - they cannot hold up a return because they are waiting for an overpayment they have no right of demanding in the first place.

 

This is a legally binding document that your mother has a right to. You can also ask for a statement from the HMRC as to what was paid to your mother and the revenue in that tax year. This will show a breakdown of what employer paid when, gross, net, tax and NIC paid.

 

This is an Inland Revenue issue, so her refund will be based in ALL of her income in the year of the overpayment, which will include the overpayment, so your mum is not doing anything wrong, don't let the DSS tell you different. They should not be witholding this document, although the refund it is not lost if you don't get it.

 

The best start would be firstly find out if the P14 has been returned to the Revenue, then to establish one contact in the DSS office, and address all correspondence to that person, otherwise it will be passed from pillar to post. Only deal with this one person on the phone, you may have to pester her a lot to get a result. If the return has been sent, demand the P60 copy, if it hasn't, state that the overpayment will not be paid back, and demand that your mum's file for that tax year be closed, and the returns sent off, involve the Revenue in this also. Your local MP/councillor may be very helpful in a case like this if they won't play ball, a quick phone call or a letter from someone in a position such as this can work wonders.

[Guest weegirl]

I just realised that I maybe didn't point out the difference in errors on the P14/P60 return enough - An error that the revenue will allow correction on would be, for example, if the DSS put down that your mother was paid £5000 benefits when she actually was paid £3500 - that is a mistake in what she was actually paid. The error in consideration here, the DSS overpayment, it not a error in the eyes of the Revenue - they can still go ahead and fill out the end of year return. The Revenue does not care that she has been overpaid, that is an issue for the DSS and your mother to sort out.

 

I hope you understand what I mean, I thought this importnat as if my local DSS office is anything to go by, they will say anything to get that money back. They may try and confuse the issue by saying the P14/P60 figures have to be corrected by getting the money back before they file the end of year return - they don't.