Cabot v Windywoo - HELP-SD ISSUED *** WON + COSTS ***

[pelham9]

what you actually agreed to such as APR etc etc.

The CCA requires the 'rate of interest to be applied' not the APR.

 

The APR is an approximation to one decimal place and this approximation is too coarse to be used in the actual calculation of interest so the APR cannot satisfy the CCA.

 

In running account loans (eg credit cards) they usually give a monthly rate to be applied and this is OK for the CCA. If you work out the APR from this monthly rate you will find you are actually paying eg 17.949% which is 17.9% APR but certainly not a rate to be applied of 17.9%.

[Windywoo]

Dear Windywoo,

 

Our response to you complaint.

 

I refer to your letter, which was received on the 5th December 2007.

 

Cabot has previously clarified the points raised in this letter and we believe your arguements are unfounded. However, please find below our further response to the points raised.

 

You have stated in your letter that Cabot has failed to provide you with a copy of the credit agreement. I would advise that Cabot has previously supplied you with a copy of the credit agreement, which you agreed and consented to with Barclaycard Littlewoods, which is sufficient. Furthermore, in consideration of your acceptance of the agreement, you received the availabilty of credit from BL by the way of a credit card, which you have utilised as clearly indicated by the account statements, which was also enclosed in previous correspondence. Notwithstanding, we

note your comments in relation to the legibilty and the prescribed terms.

 

With regards to your referral to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act. I must respectfully advise you that this subsection of the Act has been repealed and therefore you cannot rely on this. Futhermore you have not suffered any prejudice, the agreement will be enforceable as you have used the funds available to you and failed to repy them as evidenced by the statements we have enclosed again.

 

In light of the above it is evident that the debt exists and that you are required to settle the outstanding balance with Cabot. Therfore I urge you to contact our collections department on blah blah within the next 7 days to arrange repayment on this account. Failure to do so will result in your account being escalated through our collections procedures.

 

I note that you consider taking further aciotn. Please be advised, that Cabot has at all times acted appropriately and in accordance will all laws, regulations, codes of practice and guidance applicable to this industry and any legal proceedings initiated against the CFG shall be vigorously defended and counterclaim shall be entered for the full oustanding balance.

 

Ok, this is the latest letter they have sent me.

 

They are clearly trying to bluff their way out of this one, the highlighted section is incorrect, section 127(3) does apply in CCA1974.

 

Wrote them a gem of a letter in reply, pointing out the error of their ways, trying to mislead on points of law. They obviously know they are not going to win on this one, and are going down every devious route!

 

I will see what rubbish they come back with, however, in light of no agreement, and to get rid of them I may make a token offer!

 

What do other CAGers think?

[elizabeth1]

Dear Windywoo,

 

Our response to you complaint.

 

I refer to your letter, which was received on the 5th December 2007.

 

Cabot has previously clarified the points raised in this letter and we believe your arguements are unfounded. However, please find below our further response to the points raised.

 

You have stated in your letter that Cabot has failed to provide you with a copy of the credit agreement. I would advise that Cabot has previously supplied you with a copy of the credit agreement, which you agreed and consented to with Barclaycard Littlewoods, which is sufficient. Furthermore, in consideration of your acceptance of the agreement, you received the availabilty of credit from BL by the way of a credit card, which you have utilised as clearly indicated by the account statements, which was also enclosed in previous correspondence. Notwithstanding, we

note your comments in relation to the legibilty and the prescribed terms.

 

With regards to your referral to section 127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act. I must respectfully advise you that this subsection of the Act has been repealed and therefore you cannot rely on this. Futhermore you have not suffered any prejudice, the agreement will be enforceable as you have used the funds available to you and failed to repy them as evidenced by the statements we have enclosed again.

 

In light of the above it is evident that the debt exists and that you are required to settle the outstanding balance with Cabot. Therfore I urge you to contact our collections department on blah blah within the next 7 days to arrange repayment on this account. Failure to do so will result in your account being escalated through our collections procedures.

 

I note that you consider taking further aciotn. Please be advised, that Cabot has at all times acted appropriately and in accordance will all laws, regulations, codes of practice and guidance applicable to this industry and any legal proceedings initiated against the CFG shall be vigorously defended and counterclaim shall be entered for the full oustanding balance.

 

Ok, this is the latest letter they have sent me.

 

They are clearly trying to bluff their way out of this one, the highlighted section is incorrect, section 127(3) does apply in CCA1974.

 

Wrote them a gem of a letter in reply, pointing out the error of their ways, trying to mislead on points of law. They obviously know they are not going to win on this one, and are going down every devious route!

 

I will see what rubbish they come back with, however, in light of no agreement, and to get rid of them I may make a token offer!

 

What do other CAGers think?

 

 

 

I seriously think Cabot are having a laugh!!!

 

They seriously need help

 

This is the same type of thing that they wrote to Seahorse - he mentions it in his BLOG

 

YOU are correct and CABOT are bluffing once again. It's been a long year for them really - but all the same it's high time the packed it in and began being honest with us!!

[Windywoo]

OK! an update!!

 

Well, since sending my last masterpeice, I posted it on 20th December, there hasn't been another word!! Is it possible they have given up??

Still, give them their dues, it may take them a couple of weeks to get over the Christmas hols, and, what with all the complaints they are having to deal with at the moment, anything is possible!!

In the meantime, I'll just keep an eye on the letterbox!!

[Seahorse]

Maybe they just don't have the staff to cope? After all, they are holding weekly recruitment events in a bid to bolster their ranks.

[Windywoo]

Update!

 

I had one phone call from them at the end of March, presumably they were hoping I was going to contribute to their end of year profits, but alas no!

 

Another letter followed a couple of days later, inviting me to phone their collections dept. I have ignored!!! Nothing since...

[elizabeth1]

Update!

 

I had one phone call from them at the end of March, presumably they were hoping I was going to contribute to their end of year profits, but alas no!

 

Another letter followed a couple of days later, inviting me to phone their collections dept. I have ignored!!! Nothing since...

 

 

Maybe they've staff shortages LOL

 

Just keep ignoring them they'll learn oneday

[Windywoo]

Well well!!!!!

 

It's been six months since Iv'e had any written correspondence from Cabot, and what der yer know...a letter arrives in the post this morning!!

 

Dear Mrs Windywoo,

Collection on your account

We've supplied you with the information we believe resloves your dispute.

 

Your account is on hold for a further 14 days from the date of this letter so that you can contact one of our customer advisors to discuss repayment. However, if you think your disput needs further investgation, please call Customer Relation team on blah blah.

 

If we don't hear from you

If you don't contact us within 14 days we will return your account to our Collections Department for them to take further action.

 

Blah blah......!!

 

Now I'm really cheesed off, I have written every letter under the sun but they still persist in that they BELIEVE they have provided the correct documentation. NO YOU HAVE'NT!!!

 

I am seriously thinking of doing a F&F with these numpties, what do you think - 10% for starters??

[ODC]

Do not make any F&F they have not supplied a properly executed CCA

[Windywoo]

OK Thanks ODC

 

Should have realised though, the last threatogram I got from them was dated 11th March, this one dated 11th August!

 

They're obviously just keeping in touch, I will ignore!!

[ruby13]

Good luck. I'm in a similar position but they will not write to me. They started phoning every day 3 weeks ago. At first I ignored them then I wrote on 30 July and told them if they continued to harass me by telephone I would report them to police. Then on Wednesday I had enough and spoke to them. They would not discuss anything with me until i confirmed who I was, despite them having my name, address, telephone number and letter sent in July. I refused and told them to stop phoning and put any comments in writing. I am still waiting on statements which I started asking for 3 years ago. They provided a copy application form after 9 months and no statements at all. They have not stopped calling. Twice today. I don't answer but I'm running out of patience. My debt has increased by almost £3000 since they bought it in 2000 - despite my monthly payments and no interest and charges!! They seem extremely reluctant to explain why. I have explored every avenue. As a last resort I contacted the FOS and they will not help because complaint emanates prior to April 2007. Stalemate.

I will keep watching to see how u get on.

[Windywoo]

Would you believe it - phone calls began again (removed the number from Choose to Refuse) Fortunately I was away on holiday so didn't have the oppurtunity to talk to them! Cheesed off so wacked the phone harrassment letter off to them again!

 

This is their reply:

 

Dear Ms Windywoo,

 

I refer to your letter dated 20th October.

 

I understand that you are dissatisfied that Cabot has recommenced telephoning you, as you previously requested all contact in writing.

 

I would, with respect, refer you to our letter dated 7th August 2007, a copy of wich I have enclosed , that clearly advises you that if you do not co-operate in resolving this account, we reserve the right to re-instate telephone contact. On reviewing your account, you have not made any repayment or any attempt to repay towrds this account and as a consequence your account has been escalated within our collection procedures, which involves telphone contact.

 

Notwithstanding the above, your telephone number has been removed from our dialler again for 7 days, during which time we require you to contact our collection team on blah blah to arrange a suitable repyment plan, failing which we have no alternative than to continue pursuing the outstanding balance on your account, which may include instructing our solicitors in order to commence insolvency proceeding against you.

 

 

They have quoted two balances, one for the littlewoods/barclaycard account, and another for a Cap One account, again unenforceable as they haven't got the correct paperwork, yet they have the audacity to threaten me with bankruptcy when they haven't got the right paperwork to substantiate their claims. I am sick to death of these numpties, and I just wish they would take me to court, they will be the ones with egg on their stupid faces!

 

Advise from you all as what to do next please, ignore, or another masterpeice! BTW, reinstated their number on my phone, I will not have them ringing me!!

Edited November 2, 2008 by Windywoo
Wrote date

[Windywoo]

Oh, and forgot to add, they are adding interest at a rate of £600 in 14 months!!

[ODC]

your telephone number has been removed from our dialler again for 7 days, during which time we require you to contact our collection team on blah blah to arrange a suitable repyment plan, failing which we have no alternative than to continue pursuing the outstanding balance on your account, which may include instructing our solicitors in order to commence insolvency proceeding against you.

 

 

Just who do these clowns think they are. How dare they say we REQUIRE you. They have no powers whatsover. They cannot require you to do anything. Only a Court can REQUIRE you.

 

They have a hell of a cheek. They have not complied with you LEGAL Requirement under the CCA so just who do they think they are.

 

Not only that but the issue scary threats that they MAY make you bankrupy. IMHO these threats are in breach of the CPUTR and OFT Guidelines and should result in you making a formal complaint

[ScarletPimpernel]

Cabot's staff are as thick as mince, and it appears to be company policy to ignore their obligations under the law and regulatory rules if it suits them. However, as with most DCAs, their letters are either templates or cut and paste stuff, which is why they are often meaningless.

 

If they are in default of a CCA request, then their demands for payment are unlawful. Remind of that, and then ignore them. They do go to court, even when they haven't got the papers, but are easily dealt with - they rely upon their proceedings being undefended. Most of the lawyers they use are distinctly third-rate; at a hearing I helped a friend with, their solicitor asked for costs, to which the Judge replied: 'You do understand that you've lost, don't you?'

[Windywoo]

OK, another stinking letter in the post today!

 

A bit of advice please, does anybody think it would be worthwhile complaining to the OFT about this company? Just been on their website and it refers you to Consumer Direct which will then be Trading Standards. I've been down that route, and they were not very helpful, what if I write to them directly?!

[ScarletPimpernel]

In my view Trading Standards are a waste of time; if were interested in protecting consumers from non-compliant customers Cabot and others would have been dealt with long ago.

 

Stick to your guns with Cabot. If you like, send them a formal complaint, forcing them to spend time responding - this also means that you can ultimately go to FOS (although they are generally useless too).

[ODC]

Windywoo

 

Do not worry about these muppets. They specialise in sending silly letters about their imaginary powers. At the end of the day they can be beaten. Post a copy of their latest pile of pooh and Im sure we will advise of a suitable reply

[Windywoo]

Thanks for all your help!

 

Had a bit of spare time this morning, so I've fired off a complaint to the FOS, took a bit of time to collate all the rubbish, don't expect a favourable response, but we shall see!

 

BTW, did the formal complaint bit, their response was equally c**p!

[ODC]

Have you made a formal complaint to Crapbot and got their usual pathetic final response.

[Windywoo]

Yes I did, thanks.

 

BTW, recieved another letter from Cabot yesterday regarding the Cap One account. They regretfully inform me they haven't got the documents to substantiate the debt, but will accept 50% in F&F. For a start I haven't CCA'd them as the debt was passed on whilst in dispute with the OC, and, they didn't have an enforceable CCA anyway, so where they came up with that, goodness only knows. Anyway, to my advantage as they won't be getting a penny and I shall frame the letter as a keepsake!!

 

Oh, and the idiots thought they were getting clever as regards to phoning, I soon put a stop to that as well!

[ScabHunter]

If I was you I would accept their wonderfully generous 50% F&F offer.

 

"Darling Mr. R. Sole (Manager),

 

I note with considerable interest your offer of a 50% Full and Final settlement.

 

As you have no paperwork to legally enforce this alleged debt, you are in fact asking for a charitable donation.

 

It has been rather irksome at this time of year to have to deal with people asking for charitable donations for such meaningless and irrelevant causes as children, and the military who fought for this country and the freedom of the world. I therefore find it extremely refreshing to be given the opportunity to donate to the cause of communication and love.

 

I think of all those lonely people who never receive personal letters, and how much difference your threatagrams will make to their lives. I think of the poor wretched souls whose telephones never ring, and whose lives will be so much richer for your persistent and uplifting communications.

 

I think also of the paper industry, and the wonderful financial contribution you make to that. I think of the otherwise-unemployable mental retards who are kept off the street and given satisfying and meaningful employment by contributors such as yourselves.

 

I am so pleased to be able to accept your offer of settling the account for half of the outstanding balance, and will be delighted to offer a much deserved financial contribution to your organization.

 

As you are unable to supply paperwork with which to determine any balance on the said account, the only balance which can apply is one of £0.00p.

 

I have consulted with my former mathematics teacher, and am reliably informed that half of this outstanding balance amounts to £0.00p.

 

I have a cheque written out in the amount of £0.00p, which I will be happy to forward to you on receipt of a cheque for my necessary costs in making this donation.

 

In order for me to collect my cheque book with which to make said donation, I needed to visit the bank. This requires a bus fare of 20p.

 

In fact, as I had nine other shops to visit on the same journey, I am more than prepared to accept the sum of 2p as full reimbursement for my expenses.

 

Or, at least I would have been until last week.

 

Now, sadly, the council have just removed the bus route.

 

This necessitated the purchase of a motor vehicle. As the only garage I could reach from my home sells very expensive and brand new vehicles, this incurred a charge of £42,689.

 

Bugger. These ostentatious and overly luxurious vehicles are too big for my garage. Therefore, I had no option but to buy one of the far bigger houses on the new luxury estate on the way to the bank. This sadly meant I incurred a further charge of £1,546,232.

 

Oh, dear. The council are always doing something, aren't they? Sadly, the work being done on the roads around this estate has meant that I am unable to visit the bank without the building of a new bypass. The estimated expense of this is around £23million.

 

In the true spirit of generosity which your offer exhibits, I will forego any recompense for council budget overrun. On clearance of my cheque for £24,588,921, I will forward your donation.

 

Provided you include an SAE so I am not out of pocket.

 

Yours In The Spirit Of Love,

 

Windywoo."

 

SH

[Windywoo]

LMAO Scabhunter, that's priceless!!

[ODC]

Whilst rolling on the floor laughing at Scabhunters reply I feel that someone with the short attention span of a DCA threat monkey would probably not understand it and I have condensed it somewhat.

 

Dear Cretins

 

Thank you for confirming no ENFORCEABLE debt actually exists between myself and you. Therefore your seeming generous setllement is rather pointless. Half of nothing is nothing and thats what I will be sending you - Nothing. Now please go away as I will not be entering into any further discussion with you.

 

yours etc

[silvermick]

Yes I did, thanks.

 

BTW, recieved another letter from Cabot yesterday regarding the Cap One account. They regretfully inform me they haven't got the documents to substantiate the debt, but will accept 50% in F&F. For a start I haven't CCA'd them as the debt was passed on whilst in dispute with the OC, and, they didn't have an enforceable CCA anyway, so where they came up with that, goodness only knows. Anyway, to my advantage as they won't be getting a penny and I shall frame the letter as a keepsake!!

 

Oh, and the idiots thought they were getting clever as regards to phoning, I soon put a stop to that as well!

 

Nice one Windy

 

They tried the same thing on with me but CitiFinancial in 2007, they wrote again in Nov 2008 saying the same as they told you and asked for just over 50% in F&F, they get NOTHING, they will have to find another way to get their Christmas party money.

 

I'm lucky in that they do not phone me so I will not have the pleasure of hearing a ranting CABOT employee seeing his/her commision drift away.

 

Don't let them get to you...

 

Regards SM