Help! Close To Court Hearing Now!!!

[Celicaman]

think im going to have to get typing lessons, Caro has just posted same as im typiny, that'll be typing then LOL

Sorry Caro, not stepping on toes i hope

 

CM

[caro]

No probs Celicaman. Better to be advised twice than not at all. At least we both said the same thing which is always a good sign. LOL

[boobop]

Thanks for the info from both of you!

Your gonna laugh now but i dont have a copy of my POC i just typed it into MCOL and sent it away, i realise that was a little silly now:rolleyes:

Ill write the main bits i can remember let me know what you think

 

I wiah to reclaim all unfair bank charges made to my account by yorkshire bank dating from 22/02/01 - presant date, I believe these charges to be unfair and unenforcable as in the UTCCR 1999.

I believe that these charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law.

Scince the bank have been taking these charges i have found myself trapped in a loop of constant charges to which i cannot break!! whilst making every effort to pay said charges it has left me in debt with many other bills due to the bank taking there money first everytime.

Therefore after trying to reclaim these charges bank via the bank i have no allternative but to take court action.

 

 

You see im really not sure if its passable the bank hasnt mentioned it in there deffence i think i may be panicing! its just that it doesnt really sound very proffesional.

let me know what you think

regards

[Celicaman]

Try Logging onto MCOL and you should be able to open up your claim and get exact details as put in

 

CM

[boobop]

hi thanks,

Ive been back to MCOL heres what i acctually wrote in my POC.

 

I wish to make a claim for bank charges

made to my account by Yorkshire bank from

26th Feb 2002 to 17th Feb 2006. Over this

period i was subject to various charges

mainly the unortharized overdraft fee which

i was unaware of for several days untill

written notification came through from the

bank stating that the fee was £8.00 per day

at which point payment was made to credit

the account, then randomly the following

month another charge of £25.00 was incured

for originally being overdrawn again i was

unaware again making me overdrawn. Over the

following years i have payed all charges

made to my account at a struggle to myself

leaving me in debt with other bills. I have

always been a good customer of the

yorkshire bank, but i feel the charges i

have been subjected to were unjust and do

not reflect the true cost of my account

becoming overdrawn. I have written to the

bank directly to retreive these charges but

have come to no satisfactory end. Therefore

i request the cost's to be refunded.

 

 

UMM what do you think??

[boobop]

I hadnt added the total + interest just charges to the total ammount to be claimed but when i sent in a schedual of charges i sent in the charge sheet and the sheet with the interest was that ok??

[cf1958]

Hi Boobop

I am surprised that they have not commented in thier defence that POC are to vague, as there is no mention of why you think the charges are unfair etc:

They could apply to have it struck out but I am not sure at what stage they have to do that, a moderator will probably advise you on this.

[boobop]

HI CF

Yes thats what is worrying me... As thay havent mentioned it are they saving it for a later time? Im wondering weather to just update it and pay the £35 Just to be safe rather than sorry at a later date, however all the letters the bank have had before court action have all been spot on quoteing all the nessecary regulations and terms so maybe they have let it go due to the accuracy of previos correspondance??

All they did ask for before submitting there defence was a schedudle of charges as i didnt mention them at time (MCOL).

Hopfully a moderator can advise on which way to go??

[cf1958]

Hi Boobop

The defence you received seemed to be exactlly the same as we received, and I followed the instructions on this site for MCOL POC.

Maybe they have stopped reading them now, I would read up on this site for the next step, you might save yourself the £35 if they have not challenged the POC.

If you need to file a Court bundle you could make an amendment then.

[Celicaman]

Hi again, CF you could be right about them not actually reading the POC's.

Certainly the wording doesnt sound too bad, and a court would prob be ok with it as is from a lay person.( quite well worded i may add)

However a point to mention is that you have not mentioned about claiming 8% stat interest on the claim. Dont know how much your claim is for but if it worth it , its probably worth filing amandment for £35 to be able to add that in, once its in the claim, it has to be part of your settlement figure you are asking for. Costs are automatically added on except the £35

 

Here is the wording of my MCOL claim for £2.5k settled recently, no further correspondence was received from HSBC on this claim.

 

Between the dates DATE to DATE

the Defendant applied numerous default

charges to the Claimants bank account.The

charges applied constitute an unfair penalty

under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts

Regulations,which state A term is unfair if

it requires any consumer who fails his

obligation to pay a disproportionately high

sum in compensation.The amount charged does

not reflect the cost of the breach. Under the

law of penalties,the charges are an unlawful

extravagant penalty.Referring to the case of

1896,Wilson v Love, a charge is a penalty if

it does not reflect an items true cost.Under

the County Courts Act 1984, the claimant is

entitled to interest at a rate of 8% per

annum from the date they were first deprived

of the money to the date of this claim. This

amounts to a total sum of £****,continuing

to accrue at the statutory daily rate of

0.021% until judgement or earlier payment.The

Claimant therefore asks the courtto enter

judgement in their favour for the sum of

£**** plus interest, total £****

 

Its pretty basic stuff from MSE (long before i joined CAG)

 

On My Bundle SOE i used the UTCCR etc & just listed all the usual evidence.

 

Personally if i read correctly, your prelim & LBA were pretty concise and as long as your summary of charges was laid out correctly including the description of charges, then claim would probably be ok, but i do think it maybe worth getting the interest bit in, depends if its worth it to you as the bank wont offer it if its not on your court claim.

If it got to court, i believe you would get the 8% anyway, but the idea is to get it as part of your settlement figure without going to court.

 

Celicaman

[boobop]

HI Cf

Ive been reading up on the court bundle on this site infact ive made a breif start allready gathering all the nessacery info If i was to make an amendment in the bundle where/how would it go?

 

Ive got to ring the local court where my case has been transferd to tomorrow to find out if they will charge me for the AQ as it states in the transfer notice the AQ should be dispensed with unless the judge says different,again though ive got lots of information from here so am kind of preparid for it we'll see what they say tomorrow.

[boobop]

hi celicaman

After i sent my MCOL i sent in a scheduale of charges (the google version i think is on vamps thread) and also the sheet of interest at 8% along with the letter template on bankfodders thread to the court which basically said;

Please find enclosed a schedule of charges taken from my account by the deffendant along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to sec 69 CCA the interest in addition to the ammountin charges equates to the total ammount of my cliam £2787.13.

Also a copy of both charge sheets went off to the bank with a covering letter which just stated that here are the account charges as requested fully detailed the total to which is detailed below i wish to be refunded as per court claim;

Charges £XXXX

Inerest £XXX 8%

Court fees XXX

Toatl £2907

 

After realising id not mention it in the POc i thought it best to try and get that point across to both sides in good time. CF said i maybe able to add it in with the court bundle?? What do you think? They owe me a fair old sum which id like ALL of it back if possible

 

Finally whilst im picking your brains is there a way of getting the bad credit score removed i had expressed it in earlyer letters but never had a response on it from YB! and they did a right job on the credit score made me look very bad ( there cheek!!)

 

Regards:)

[Celicaman]

Hi, seems like your on the ball.

Have you rang the court and asked them if the Schedule of charges and the addition of the parts about adding the 8% to your claim is ok and is actually admissable in court, get the name of person you talk to, just confirm it. ( record time & date as is very important if ever challenged)

if the court are happy then you dont have a problem and well done for 'thinking outside the box' if its worked its worth noting for other claimants.

If not its time to file N244 amendment to claim.

 

For the bundle, you can put in anything you want that you are going to rely on, this is your evidence of claim, this is why you have to supply it to the court & the defence at least 14 days before court date, so that the defence have a chance to prepare a defence.

 

Sorry dont know anything about default, but there are forums for that, use search tab to find them, you will get them removed.

 

Good luck

 

Celicaman

[boobop]

Hey

gonna ring the court first thing and get it all check outed, il make sure i log all detail name etc. If my cheeky side step hasnt worked do i just send the N244 directly to the local court do the bank need a copy or will the judge send them any updates?

Ill look up the default issue tomorrow once i start reading on here i seem to lose about 4hours of my life!!

 

Thanks for the advise i feel better for sharing it

 

keep you updated

Boo

[Celicaman]

Only 4 hours lost on here, your lucky LOL

as far as i understand, when you file N244 amendment, the judge looks at it then if they OK it they send the official yes back to you, YOU then have to serve the Bank/solicitor with the amended claim, they then have to agree to the agreement to the court, basically they accept the amendments.

 

More than happy to help, although i must get a life again LOL

 

Celicaman

[caro]

Boobop, I'm afraid that your POC is inadequate, and I really think that they should be amended. I don't think you can amend them when you send the bundle, as an amendment means that the bank must have the opportunity to amend their defence to reflect the changes, and that would not give them sufficient time. The bank may have overlooked the POC, but I doubt the judge will, and you have not said anything about the legal basis of your claim, so s/he may strike the claim out anyway. Far too risky to leave in my opinion.

 

You also need to deal with the default issue as part of your claim, so MUST deal with this at the same time, or it will be nigh on impossible to sort once your claim is settled.

 

Did YB actually default you, and if so, was it for more or less than the amount of your charges?

[Celicaman]

Hi Caro, so the fact that the utccr etc were put in the initial letter & LBA is not enough.

I thought maybe that when it came to bundle and you list in there and that would be enough as you could state that you asked for charges back as they are unlawfull re the utccr.

In bundles it seems we add in a lot more items to back up our claim compared to POC, so i thought this would be the same thing.

 

CM

[caro]

The judge would not see the bundle until approaching the court date and if Boobop got to court with that POC I honestly believe that she would lose. Normally this would be considered an embarassed POC, and the claimant is often given 7 days to amend it. YB and the other banks have made applications for strike outs on these grounds many times. The bundle is merely backing documentation to support the claim, and you can't rely on that alone. Your claim needs to be right.

 

Sorry to be so blunt Boobop, but better to find out now than in court in a few months time. I'll get a second opinion just to be on the safe side.

[caro]

Actually Boobop, could you post your defence up first so we can just check exactly what it says.

[boobop]

Hi All

Well I have printed the completed N244 form and about to do an amended N1 form,

About my default I don’t know weather to add it to my POC, as the way in which they gave it was a bit underhand ill explain;

They had charged me approx £250.00 in charges this particular month and also at the end of the month I had been made redundant ( bad month) when my loan repayment came to be paid there wasn’t enough money in to cover it once the charges had been taken I had decided to use my payment protection as I had been made redundant when I went into my branch and explained they advised me that as I would probably get another job in the next few days – weeks it would be easier and acceptable with the bank if I wanted to break the missed loan payment into two added on to the next to DD payments which I did to save hassle, never thought any more about it as all future payments were met ok. Then as I received a credit report (when I couldn’t get a mortgage) the bank had defaulted my loan and had my score as num 8 the worst score to have!! After writing to the head office I was told as id missed a payment there was a default even though it was made up and the circumstances surrounding didn’t matter – hence me starting this claim for charges as ive had enough of YB and there rules..

.

So what do you think go ahead and add it to POC or a separate issue?? Unsure...

As for there defence its 4 pages long so ill copy the relevant bits and shorten the usual bits.

1, Banks address

2, the claimant has not specified the account num in her POC. In the absence of AC the defendant has been unable to obtain copies of statements and accordingly is unable to plead to the specific charges said to have been applied to the AC or to the quantum of the claimants claim. The defendant reserves the right to further plead to the specific charges and the quantum of the claim on provision by the claimant of the AC num.

3, they quote the banks standard T&C for current AC Tariffs etc…

4, Tariffs of charges are set out for current AC with regard to charges ETC… Shows a list of all reasons for charges, unpaid DD ETC…

5, the bank charged the claimant at the rate payable under the tariff

6, It is denied that the charges or any of them were a disproportionate penalty and unenforceable as alleged in the POC. The charges were a fee foe the service provided by the bank to the claimant in extending the facilities to her, all as envisaged by the agreement with the bank and claimant. Further and in any event the charges were a genuine per estimate of cost resulting from the customer’s failure to keep within an agreed overdraft limit.

7, it is further denied that the T&C requiring the claimant to pay the charges were unfair as The UTCCR the charges were not compensation but rather a fee for the service provided by the bank in extending facilities to the claimant all as envisaged in the agreement. It goes on to say the cost of admin systems, risk of loss to the bank, and standard op procedures for the bank in relation to the case

And the banking code of conduct

9 claimants is not entitled to any relief.

Well thats it all see what you think.

Id appreciate your views on this

boo:)

[caro]

Definitely looks like fairly standard defence. Regarding the default, you most definitely need to include it on your POC. From what you say it would seem that you were not warned that a default was imminent if you didn't pay, or were sent a default advising you of the default, so I think it was probably not properly executed. Include it in your claim, and under no circumstances accept the monetary settlement without the default removal, or you'll probably never get it removed.

 

I'll see if Jonni2bad is about as he has more knowledge on this subject than me.

[boobop]

Thanks caro

should i just add that there is a default to be removed in my POC and give more details in bundle?

I dont think theres room for the full story in POC.

No ive never recieved anything informing me of any defalut untill failed creadit search, ive still got all correspondances between me and the bank to prove they're cant be botherd attitude

[caro]

Your POC can be as long as it needs to be to complete your claim. You'll need to explain why you believe it should be removed. The POC is probably more important than the bundle. I'm sure Jonni or someone with more knowledge of defaults will be able to advise. What is important though is exactly how much the default was for, and how much the charges are that you're claiming.

[boobop]

The default was for the total loan amount at the time which i think was about £2500.00 its now down to £1000.00 nearly paid up yet the default will stay for another 5yrs

[boobop]

sorry should i do my POC on a seperate page to the N1 form or just shrink my text a little to keep it all on the N1?