HFC Loan - Is this an enforceable CCA?

[Guest NATTIE]

just to go briefly off topic for a moment, if i click someone's reputation i put my name in the rep button so i am afraid it was not me on this thread as this thread was originally brought to my attention re squabbling and negativity on the threads so i was trying to clarify the points made.

 

Going back to the original poster, would a full sar with a documented note relating to the sending out of the DN constitute proof of sending because surely it would be impossible to get the original copy if one existed or is that required.

[shieldblaster]

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would prove to me that is has been sent out yes..and whether its impossible to get a true copy i don't really know as yet..its possible that the true copy might come along with an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)..with the argument that it pertained to me..contained my name etc. which would fall under the purpose of a SAR and the Data Protection act cos its a document referring to me. And that i think will be my next form of action. At the moment I am practising the old adage which my old Grandad used to tell me " Slowly Slowly catchy monkey" that is if there is one to be caught of course.

 

At the moment I am processing the huge amount of help and info I have gained from this site and to use a computing analagy the processor is a bit slow and the memory could do with updating But i'm getting there and slowly forming my plan..Thanks Nattie for your input

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

From the Legalities Forum, there is a thread on how to get a default removed. The requirement of that thread is that the debtor has to have received a Default Notice. If he/she has not received a default notice then the default has to be removed.

 

If the debtor asks for a true copy of the default notice then he/she is entitled to receive it in its true form. If he/she receives a template, this is not a true copy of the default notice and therefore the default has to be removed as the law has not been complied with.

 

In my view, this is just as important as receiving an original copy of the credit agreement. The reason I think this is because I am currently trying to get defaults removed from my file that have been placed there because of bank charges, incorrect procedures etc., It is a very difficult job. However, if the OP has not been sent a true copy of the default notice then he/she is in a very good position to have this removed.

 

While debts might not be enforceable without a copy of the CCA, creditors still place defaults on your file. Its the defaults that cause all the damage in the future. If there is any way that the OP can get this default removed and his credit file brought to a better standing then I am with him all the way on this and wish him the best of luck with his efforts. Its something that I would do as my credit file is zilch now with all the defaults banded about willy nilly by creditors.

 

Good luck

Gemspan

[shieldblaster]

My point entirely Gemspan and thanks for your input, may i wish you well on your quest also and i would be obliged if you could point me in the direction of the thread you mention..tried searching for it but to no avail

[gemspan]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24013-defaults-proposed-method-removal.html

 

 

This is the sticky! Hope it works for you. Good luck

 

Gemspan

[shieldblaster]

Hi

 

I CCA'd HFC back in march and they have now responded with the original agreement and I would be very grateful if anyone could view it and give me some feedback as to whether it contains what it should contain to be a regualted agreement.

 

Thanks in advance

 

[shieldblaster]

I CCA'd HFC Bank in March and they have finally come up with this document and I would be grateful if anyone could have a look and give me some feedback as the whether it contains all the necessary items and terms ot be a regulated agreement.

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x131/shieldblaster/cca-1.jpg

[powelll]

Bump.

 

Sorry can't link to this as am at work but hopefully Rory32 or someone equally good on CCA will be along to help

[stebiz]

It has your signature

their signature

Terms and Conditions

APR

Total amount to pay

Says it is a credit agreement.

 

 

I would say that yes it does have all the information required to fulfill a CCA. However I'm no expert and not qualified in anyway to advise. Wait for others to come along but I would say it is okay.

 

The only thing I would say is that it is dated 2002 and was used to pay off another debt. Was it a credit card??

 

Stebiz

[Robdblynd]

I'd say it was a valid agreement, as Stebiz says, it contains all the prescribed terms.

[tomterm8]

Seems allright to me, but I would pm rory to check.

[yaffsimone1]

It does not make any reference to cancellation rights. Where did you sign this agreement, at home or on the creditors premises?

 

It could be unenforcable on these grounds.

[Guest ArthurP]

Your agreement appears to be unenforcable as it is in breach of certain terms, amongst them being the missing rate of annual interest.

 

https://www.financialagreementsolutions.co.uk/usr/basicchecker.aspx

 

Good luck.

[tomterm8]

Your agreement appears to be unenforcable as it is in breach of certain terms, amongst them being the missing rate of annual interest.

 

https://www.financialagreementsolutions.co.uk/usr/basicchecker.aspx

 

Good luck.

 

Um, it include APR.

[stebiz]

I mentioned originally about it going to pay off another debt?? The reason I ask is what was the reason you took a loan out just to repay other finance. Was it a credit card? Did that card have unlawful charges and you were chasing your tail? Have they actually got a copy of the original credit card agreement they paid off?? Have they got statements??

 

Stebiz

[shieldblaster]

Thanks for all your input, Stvebiz it wasn't for a credit card but was a top up loan if i remember correctly and it was signed on the Creditors premises so no cancellation rights necessary.

 

I did what was suggested a pm'ed Rory who kindly had a look and told me that in his opinion it was an enforceable agreement. If I was to query anything it's that there is no consumer protection rights notice contained in it, and it refers to t & c's overleaf but there is no overleaf.

 

Thanks again everyone

 

I mentioned originally about it going to pay off another debt?? The reason I ask is what was the reason you took a loan out just to repay other finance. Was it a credit card? Did that card have unlawful charges and you were chasing your tail? Have they actually got a copy of the original credit card agreement they paid off?? Have they got statements??

 

Stebiz

[Guest ArthurP]

Um, it include APR.

 

Ummm, yes, and?

 

The APR will include all charges as the true cost of credit whereby the rate of interest doesn't and must be included on an agreement to show a difference.

[Curlyben]

There maybe a couple of technicalities but I'd say YES enforceable.

I've had similar from HFC and had TS check it over for me and they agreed that its fine.

 

If you really want to get into minor techniacl things then feel free, but if this arrives in front of a judge you'll more than likely loose.

[Guest ArthurP]

I'd have to disagree with that point of view.

 

The signal from that would indicate that some things can be ignored by a court, thus an ignorance of the law, just so it is seen as a technicality and it doesn't really matter.

 

If something is missing or incorrect on an agreement then it is a breach and must be ruled as such.

[rory32]

If something is missing or incorrect on an agreement then it is a breach and must be ruled as such.

This is a minor technicality as has already been stated. It would not in my view (and in many other respected members of this site views) render the agreement unenforceable.

 

While you may be willing to argue this in a court of law as a breach of the Act I am sure the OP is not.

 

It is very easy to argue that minor technicalities should be argued in a court of law when it is not your responsibility.

[make them aktiv runners]

Shieldblaster, you requested this from HFC rather than a DCA. As this actually been sold to a DCA? If it has then it is certainly unusual for them to have one with a valid CCA.

[tomterm8]

I'd have to disagree with that point of view.

 

The signal from that would indicate that some things can be ignored by a court, thus an ignorance of the law, just so it is seen as a technicality and it doesn't really matter.

 

If something is missing or incorrect on an agreement then it is a breach and must be ruled as such.

 

The act renders certain credit agreements as unexecuted and therefore void; it renders other agreements as improperly executed. With improperly executed agreements, it is within the courts powers to enforce them but the court must consider any prejudice caused to the debtor.

 

In this case, you must consider what would be in the Judges mind. There is a strong presumption in English law that a contract should be enforceable. The claimant can show he has already fulfilled its part of the agreement. This contract clearly spells out the APR, the cost of credit, the monthly repayments and the original amount of the loan. These are the core fundamentals of a consumer credit agreement.

 

APR is mathematically inevitably higher than an interest rate calculation. The cost of the agreement is clearly shown... so, exactly what prejudice is caused? yes, they are different things, but the APR is used as the industry standard comparison because it is considered the more accurate measurement of cost.

[Guest ArthurP]

This is a minor technicality as has already been stated. It would not in my view (and in many other respected members of this site views) render the agreement unenforceable.

 

While you may be willing to argue this in a court of law as a breach of the Act I am sure the OP is not.

 

It is very easy to argue that minor technicalities should be argued in a court of law when it is not your responsibility.

 

Different points of view which is the basis of a forum.

 

I'm not advising anybody but merely giving an opinion which is also similar to that of the very handy checker tool.

 

I doubt very much that an individual would take what most of us post on here as the basis to launch litigation in any case. Although there are many who give very sound advice including yourself.

 

However, I would though point out that should one of my creditors be intent on taking me to court, out of spite, then I may only have minor technicalities as a defence.

 

Is it certain how effective this defence would be?

[cantona1]

i have judt recieved my agreement back from emerican express for my credit card ,and it does not have my signature on the agreement.guess it means my ageement is unenforcable .can anyone post a template letter to send back to american express to say the agreement is unenforcable because it does not have a signature.many thanks

[gsb333]

I have a one-off CCA regulated credit agreement with Clydesdale for £9000. It appears to be defective in several areas. Clydesdale refuse to comment (surprise!). I don't want to incur lawyers bills so can I take the question to the Small Claims Court for a ruling?