Close Brothers V my wife. (Long story)

[rockdj99uk]

My wife is being taken to court for a credit card debt. She admittied just over £4000 but disputes £968 which is the charges over a 6 year period.

 

She went to court Monday and the Claimant asked for an adjournment as they were not ready. The judge was obviously not happy but eventually agreed awarding my wife £50 loss of earnings as she took a days annual leave. Anyway whilst in court the Judge urged the Claimant to just settle as all costs would be borne by them as they weren't ready but they refused.

 

One of the things that was mentioned by the Judge was a Part 20 Claim and my wife was told it was something she should look at. She was also given 2 weeks to submit a revised defence which has to be in by the 23rd July. Now I believe after doing some digging is that a part 20 claim is a counterclaim.

 

So I would like to know how she goes about putting in a Part 20 Claim as the card company have said they definitely will not relinquish the charges and will be in court in 6 weeks. If she can hit them for all charges plus interest plus anything else then it would be a bit of a bonus. The credit card is issued by a company called Close Brothers. Their solicitor at court said to us that she didn't think they were fully aware of what they were getting into and also that this could become quite high profile as they are willing to defend their charges in court.

[zzzzzzzz]

Yes - it is a counterclaim

PART 20 - COUNTERCLAIMS AND OTHER ADDITIONAL CLAIMS

You will need to pay the counterclaim fee and claim back the £968 charges using the particulars of claim templates mentioned elsewhere on this website

 

your post is the top 4 search result on google

close brothers credit card - Google Search

I doubt that Close Brothers have experience in these claims , the terms and conditions on Welcome to ArrowCard state a £12 fee , so I am assuming that that they have reduced the charges since you were charged

 

Having said that you haven't paid the £968 charges so you wouldn't need to recover the money you haven't paid by counterclaim so defence is more appropriate

In what order did the bank apply the money you have already paid (if any) if it went to pay charges first rather than the balance then I suppose you would counterclaim for that

I am not an expert on bank charges however

You will need to ask someone more knowledgeable

[rockdj99uk]

Thanks for the answer. Whenever she made a payment it reduced the balance. The charges were just added to the balance so I'm thinking like you that a defence is possibly a better option but also like you I am no expert. If I counterclaim then I could also claim back the interest at 8% and I believe this is what the judge was getting at when she told their rep in court that if they didn't just settle for the sum admitted now it could work out even more expensive for them.

[steven4064]

Hi rock

 

Your wife should claim back all the interest the card company chared her on the charges , which will have been at their APR (14.9%, 29.9% or whatever).

 

In other words, for each charge, she should claim back interest at their APR, compounded from the date of the charge until the date of the claim. You will find that that significantly increases what she is claiming back -BUT it is all money they have taken from her.

 

[rockdj99uk]

Thanks for your help. I'll sit down and try and work it out tomorrow. At 8% it works out at just over £100. Anymore would be gratefully received as it would lessen the amount owed. Is this tactic likely to work, i.e. will the court go for the full APR instead of just 8%?

[steven4064]

You are entitled to claim any money they have wrongly taken from you - that's charges and the interest they have charged you on the charges. Make it clear that that is what you are asking for -the interest that you have paid as a result of the charges.

 

Post the wording of your counter claim here before you send it so that we can look at it and offer any suggetsions.

 

Add 8% s69 interest on top.

[rockdj99uk]

Thanks. I've now worked it out that after all interst and charges are deducted she owes £3855 which is better. I'm going to sit down and work out the wording of her counterclaim this afternoon and will post it here for input from yourself and anyone else who can help.

 

One question I do have is do we submit this Part 20 Claim with our defence or is it treated as a seperate claim? I'm assuming we go to the court with the Part 20 claim and its then added to the file of her case and is then sent to the card company. As we are now dealing solely with their solicitors I assume it needs to be sent by the court to the solicitors.

 

I'm also assuming we don't need the courts permission to file a Part 20 as we can now submit a revised defence.

 

Thanks for your help so far it really is appreciated.

[steven4064]

I'm also assuming we don't need the courts permission to file a Part 20 as we can now submit a revised defence.

Wasn't it the court's suggestion in the first place?

[rockdj99uk]

Wasn't it the court's suggestion in the first place?

 

 

Good point. It was a suggested possible route that the judge mentioned to my wife and the claimants so we will go on as we are then. Thanks

[surprise]

One thing that has struck me, have they ever produced a true signed copy of the agreement, with all the prescribed terms and conditions?

[rockdj99uk]

One thing that has struck me, have they ever produced a true signed copy of the agreement, with all the prescribed terms and conditions?

 

Yes, when they first brought the court case that was the first thing we asked for.

[rockdj99uk]

OK here is the wording of her counterclaim

 

1. The Claimant had an account **************** ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 14th March 2000 and closed on or around 16th December 2006

 

2. During the period in which the Account was operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £983 and any interest charged thereon;

 

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) The claimant claims compound interest on the amounts claimed - using the rate and method specified in the said contract, and applied by the defendant to monies it is owed from 13th February 2004 to 13th December 2006 of £37.67.

 

d) The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year, from 13th February 2004 to 19th July 2007 of £115.29 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.24

 

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[rockdj99uk]

Whilst fighting through all the paperwork so I could try and work out the interest and get the relevant interest rates at the various times the charges were made I found a charge that had been missed from the original schedule so this has now been added.

 

The reason for putting date as 19th July is we are still awaiting the new directions from the judge after last weeks adjournment so I do not see this being submitted before then.

[steven4064]

Looks good (I assume your maths is correct - I've not checked that!)

[rockdj99uk]

(I assume your maths is correct - I've not checked that!)

 

Had some dramas with that so am hoping it is right. At the end of the day is it not up to Close Brothers to prove it wrong in court? As long as mine is a good estimate.

 

Anyway if you're happy with that I will go with it. Just waiting for the letter from the court detailing all the new directions from the judge.

 

What was said in court was file & serve new defence within 14 days (23rd July). Close brothers would then be given another 14 days to reply to any claim, then we would be back in court first available slot 14 days after that.

 

I will keep posting to let you know how it goes.

 

I can type up their statement that they were going to use before the adjournment if anyone would like to see it.

 

Steven thanks so much for your help and advice it really has helped and is much appreciated.