Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
        • Like
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
        • Like
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

o0oLiamBeeo0o V LTSB Scotland PLC - o0oLiamBeeo0o WINS!!!!!


o0oliambeeo0o
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6271 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi folks, loving this site, so much great info and refrence points, I have just emailed the Chief Exec of Lloyds TSB Susan Rice([email protected]) this evening (15/06/2006). Please see my letters below, keep up your GREAT work and I will keep posted any replies.

 

Lloyds TSB Scotland PLC

Henry Duncan House, 120 George Street, Edinburgh, EH2 4LH

Dear Sir/Madam

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for Liam ***** (sortcode) and (account number)

I have been charged £557.00 since 01 September 2004 due to returned direct debits on the above mentioned account. Please see below as I find these charges to be a “penalty charge” and therefore are unfair and unenforceable.

0n 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT (press release 68/06 – online here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2006/68-06.htm).

The OFT stated that a charge is not fair simply because it is below this sum, and I believe that a reasonable charge would be 50 pence for the reasons set out below. Please refund my charges as a matter of urgency.

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality, I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

Separately, I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In particular, charges were applied after I entered into a transaction(s) without sufficient funds in my account. However, payment was declined by you, and therefore, actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50 – online here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/27405.htm).

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

Please refund all charges applied to my account within the next 7 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses.

Yours faithfully

Mr Liam *****

AND

Lloyds TSB

Henry Duncan House, 120 George Street, Edinburgh, EH2 4LH

Dear Sir/Madam

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund for Liam ***** (sortcode) and (account number)

I have been charged £514.00 since 04 January 2004 due to exceeding my agreed overdraft limit on the above mentioned account. Please see below as I find these charges to be a “penalty charge” and therefore are unfair and unenforceable.

0n 5 April 2006 the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) announced that default charges which are set at more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). Charges above this sum will be subject to legal action by the OFT (press release 68/06 - online here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/News/Press+releases/2006/68-06.htm).

I would respectfully submit that if your organisation does not agree to immediately refund all unfair charges applied to my account, it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In that eventuality, I will submit a 1974 Act complaint to the OFT.

On a separate note, I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79.

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50 - online here: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmtreasy/274/27405.htm).

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of the bank’s loss in relation to my account. Your charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

Please refund these charges to my account within the next 7 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses.

Yours faithfully

Mr Liam *****

  • Haha 1

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 188
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Very nice.

 

Just one thing, if this is 2 separate accounts, 2 separate claims, could you start another thread for the 2nd one and post separate updates and queries? It will make it easier to follow the claims as you go along. Differentiate the other thread by saying "2nd account" or something like that.

 

Well done. Keep us posted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bookworm, the letters issued are for the one account, I went here http://www.govanlc.com/step1_letter.html and it says you need to issue 2 different letter relating to two different charges, hense my post, I understand your point though, I have now issued the printed letters by recorded delivery today (16/06/06) and as the letters state I will allow 7 days for a response. I previously sent the letters by email to CEO Susan Rice ([email protected]) thought I thought I would sent in post as recorded, I would suggest anyone with issues with Lloyds TSB to email or address letters to any of the executives personaly, this can be very easily found by doing a little digging on google etc, again sites like these make dealing with these people soooo much easier as it becomes one central place for all concerned, so thanks CONSUMER ACTION GROUP.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi folks, OK ive been reading threads and FAQs all weekend now and i just want to clarify a few points if possible, i have issued 2 letters relating to my account (all charges applied to one account but two seperate letters issued as some charges for failed DD's and other charges for o/d excess fees) which total £1071.00. Now as i am in Scotland i am limited to claiming £750, but having looked at small claims procedures in Scotland i understand i can issue 'summary cause', which i feel confident about. At the moment i am only at stage one where i have trawled through my statements and come up with the above figure for all charges applied, i will allow until 26/6/06 for a reply, if not what i am requesting i will issue LBA and allow further 14 days to reconsider their position, and if still not the response i require i will file papers with local court. If you have read this and have any comments please feel free to do so, any comments or suggestions etc would be greatly recieved.

 

P.S, This may seem a bit cheeky but on the first letters i have issued (these letters were from http://www.bankcharges.info/ see post) it states Please refund all charges applied to my account within the next 7 days. I reserve the right to commence court proceedings without any further notice, and to seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience, together with legal expenses. Now my question would be about the additional award for distress and inconvenience??? Does any one have an opinion on this, is it a good/bad idea??

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, not sure if anyone is reading these posts because so far ive only had one response but ive recieved a letter from Lloyds TSB and need some advice on it.

 

The letter reads as follows:

 

Dear Mr L Bee,

 

I am just writing to let you know that we've recieved your complaint and to say how sorry I am to learn that your unhappy with us.

 

You have my assurance that one of our assistant managers will investigate the concerns you have raised with us - this may take a little time but I would expect our enquiries to be complete within the coming TWO weeks. We will then be able to respond in full to your complaint and at that stage, I hope, resolve matters between us.

 

In case you haven't recieved a copy of our leaflet called "How to voice your concerns" Ive enclosed one with my letter. This tells you all you need to know about resolving your complaint with us.

 

Your sincerely

 

Tracy White

Customer Service Advisor

 

 

Now would this be a stalling method?

Should I allow them two weeks to "investigate"?

Or should i just continue with my planned schedule of letters?

 

Any advice would be greatly appriciated.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a standard letter. Remember you set the timeline, not them, so stick to what you said and follow the guidlines, you'll get there in the end.

 

best of luck

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks closey, I understand its my deadline, but would this not go against me as I was then not allowing them time to investigate etc......

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The timescales are proved and tested, so don't worry. As long as you follow the guidlines provided on this site you won't have any issues. You are giving the bank plenty of time. Lloyds, from what I know are the worst at stalling everything.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Closey, I kinda thought they were stalling but didn't want to jump the gun, their deadline runs out on 26 June 2006 and I will then issue LBA which gives a further 14 days anyways, so again thanks for that. Will post any updates as they happen.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lloyds are becoming famous on this site for stalling!

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I can see that from reading the threads Closey, the rats lol, can I ask, does anyone have an opinion on my comment about if I file a claim with sheriff court should I also claim for damages i.e undue distress, inconvenience etc???

 

Thanks.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You wouldn't be able to claim extra, except travel expenses. If you were going to try and claim for stress etc, you would need proof - medical records, statement from GP etc. I really recommend just following the tried and tested method to ensure you can get your money back.

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^^^

 

What she said ;)

 

 

 

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

He?!

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, ok recieved another letter today form Ms Musarat Siddique, standard letter which is already on forum : http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9551&page=2 and it is the middle letter.

 

Now with regards to my question about damages and I understand about the tried and tested method but I was thinking, if I file my papers with sheriff court and state within details of claim I am claiming £xxx in damages, going by the usual outcome they will settle out of court and I could insist the damages be paid as if they do not pay damages the court action will continue and as they do not wish to have it go into a court room they will pay damages, again I am just chancing my luck but I feel they have been (edit) me (and everyone else) for years and its about time the tables were turned!! Also I feel as I have stated in my prelim and LBA letters that if they do not pay up I will be claiming damages so they have been advised to pay charges and that will be end of story.

 

I am just putting finishing touches to my LBA which will be send to them on 26/06/06 so if i post on here will you please advise if you feel anything should be amended etc,

 

cheers folks.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, here is my LBA this is being sent when prelim deadline runs out which is 26 June 2006, ANY comments would be greatly recieved:

 

 

 

Lloyds TSB Scotland PLC

Henry Duncan House, 120 George Street, Edinburgh, EH2 4LH

Dear Madam,

 

Penalty & unfair charges – FINAL request for refund for Liam Bee ******and ******

I am very disappointed, but not surprised with the letters that you have issued on 19 and 21 June 2006 to my letters of the 12 June 2006. The letters issued on 12 June 2006 firstly were not a complaint, they were a request for a full refund of all "unlawful and unfair penalty charges", secondly set out a clear deadline of seven days for this refund to be applied to my bank account. Please find below my response to your letters of 19 and 21 June 2006.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

Your bank insists it can impose charges in accordance with its terms and conditions of contract. However, those terms and conditions are subject to the common law and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR). Indeed, the UTCCR takes precedence over any contractual term where the court finds a term to be ‘unfair and/or unlawful’. The court can then treat that term of contract as having no legal effect.

 

The question that arises is this: are your charges unfair in terms of the UTCCR? 0n 26 July 2005 the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued the account holder for breach of contract'. So what would the court award your bank for my minor breach of contract?

 

As you are aware, the court will only award (in a non-negotiated consumer contract) a sum to reimburse actual loss. Your charges do not reflect actual loss. Rather, they include a massive profit margin or penalty. Alternatively, they subsidise the bank's global debt recovery costs and lending losses. There is parliamentary evidence for this assertion.

 

When the UK banks gave evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges were calculated they said:

 

"[bank charges] are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (House of Commons, 2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).

 

Accordingly, your charges do not reflect the actual loss in my case. They are an unlawful penalty charge designed to recover money unconnected with the conduct of my account.

 

I also note your suggestion within your leaflet “How to voice your concerns” that I can complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman if dissatisfied with this decision. However, please be advised that it would be inappropriate to complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman where the only forum which can determine a dispute on the legality of charges is my local court. I would ask you to note the following.

 

I calculate that you have taken £1071.00 in “unlawful penalty charges” from my account since 1 July 2004. Please find enclosed with this letter a breakdown of charges which have been levied to my account. This breakdown includes the date the “penalty” was imposed and your justification for the “penalty”. This breakdown I can also point out does not include interest which, should this matter result in court action being taken would be a further 8% annually on each individual charge which has been levied to my account. Also as my previous correspondence states I would seek an additional award for distress and inconvenience.

If I do not hear from you within the next 14 days (By 10 July 2006)offering a full refund of all charges detailed in the attached letter you have left me no alternative but to raise an action of “summary cause” with my local Sheriff court. In that eventuality, I would require you to lodge in court financial vouching for the actual loss sustained by you “to cover additional work” in my case as you imply in your letter of 21 June 2006, together with your full financial accounts revealing how much income is generated from your bank charges, as against the cost of administering dishonoured transactions.

 

May I also point out this is the second request I have issued to your organisation without a satisfactory settlement and I shall make no further attempts to settle this matter without intervention from the Sheriff Court.

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the Office Of Fair Trading direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a "fit and proper person" to hold a consuner credit licence under the 1974 act. If you do not understand what this means please seek advice from your legal department.

 

I look forward to your response and appreciate you co-operation in this matter

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

Mr Liam Bee.

  • Haha 1

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

That is a wicked letter how can they respond to that???

Get into them and make them pay for being unlawful and making all our lives a living hell.

Good luck to you all the best

Regards

adamski

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Top letter o0oliambeeo0o!!!!!

 

Are you Mr. Spiceskull's new apprentice by any chance?

 

You may wish to view my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4887 to see how I have addressed 'consequential losses', and also that of 'Empire Strikes Back' for same.

Regards,

Bean

Lloyds TSB - 27/11/06 - £6377 paidrest with FOS

 

SETTLED

Cap One - 6/10/06 - £875

Lloyds TSB (MC) - 20/10/06 (BY DEF) £372

Hitachi Cap - Nov. 06 - £207

Citi Cards - 28/12//06 - £220

Monument - 23/1/07 - £889

Barclaycard (Mrs. Bean) - 19/2/07 £376

Opinions / advice of Bean are independent, informal, without prejudice, without liability, not CAG endorsed. If in doubt, ask a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bean, French William and Adamski, glad you think the letter is OK, im afraid im not even on a par with spiceskull or most ppl on here, I just want them to know I WANT MY MONEY!!!! lol, im not sure how they will respond Adamski, from the forums it will prob be along the lines I'm sorry you feel this way.... standard bull!

 

Hope all goes well French Wiliam, stick it to them I will continue to look in on your progress, again thanks for the support folks, I wouldnt even be thinking of doing this if it wasnt for the masters on this site.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks

We all feed of each other here this site is a godsend, lets use consumer power and sock it to these overpowered, arrogant, corporate scumbags, who are destroying our communites and society with their greed and ignorance.

Good luck and all the best

Regards

adamski

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You have hit the nail on the head there adamski, the toll on British society and family life from all this must be huge! I think a few MP's will soon be receiving informative letters to press for changes.

 

Incidentally, don't know if you've noticed, but at present rate expect the survey results to exceed 1000 settlements and £1,000,000 by Saturday 24 June or Monday 26 June!!!

 

Regards,

Bean

Lloyds TSB - 27/11/06 - £6377 paidrest with FOS

 

SETTLED

Cap One - 6/10/06 - £875

Lloyds TSB (MC) - 20/10/06 (BY DEF) £372

Hitachi Cap - Nov. 06 - £207

Citi Cards - 28/12//06 - £220

Monument - 23/1/07 - £889

Barclaycard (Mrs. Bean) - 19/2/07 £376

Opinions / advice of Bean are independent, informal, without prejudice, without liability, not CAG endorsed. If in doubt, ask a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

....and that's only the people who fill out the survey.

 

Wonderful letter. Spiceskull, you have competition! Only kidding. Best of luck. I know you will be sucessful

Lloyds TSB - £972

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent

Claim acknowledged

Defence received

AQ 20/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 20/07/06***

 

Woolwich - £2288

S.A.R, prelim and LBA sent.

Offered half

Moneyclaim filed online 02/08/06

Judgement filed online 23/08/06

WARRANT FILED ONLINE 30/08/06

MONEY RECEIVED BY BALIFF 04/10/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 09/10/06***

 

Smile - £175

Pelim 23/06/06

***FULL SETTLEMENT RECEIVED 07/07/06***

 

My Ex vs Woolwich - £715

S.A.R sent 30/08/06

Pelim 06/10/06

LBA 20/10/06

 

Advice & opinions provided are personal, and not endorsed by CAG or BAG, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that closey, am I am right in thinking i can claim back overdraft interest?? If so why is this, sorry for the stupid question?

 

Btw Bean I read your thread a few times, and hope you dont mind i've lifted some of the things you wrote about the court deciding, I'll b adding this when I am filling out the court papers if thats OK.

Prelim Req sent 12 June 2006,

LBA sent 26 June 2006,

Confirmation of court action sent 24 July 2006,

Court return date 20 October 2006 - LTSB did not reply,

Court hearing date 27 October 2006 - Decree granted in my favour,

Recall of decree recieved 16 November 2006,

1 December 2006 assigned as recall of decree,

26 January 2007 assigned for full proof hearing,

16 January 2007 1st offer recieved and declined,

23 January 2007 2nd offer accepted, awaiting monies to hit bank account

 

All advice & opinions of o0oLiamBeeo0o are personal opinions, if in doubt seek advice from a qualified professional !!

 

vvv My Thread vvv

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent letter liambee - unfortunately, and call me skeptical if you will, but I'd take a guess that they'll just throw you the usual pile of cow crap spread over a sheet of A4 paper.

 

The start of your letter is very similar to the usual LBA template letter, and I can almost picture some peon at Lloyds reading the first paragraph, muttering 'And another one' while he clicks open the standard response template, inserts the scanned copy of "David Just's" signature, and sends it to be printed off by the envelope stuffers downstairs. :roll:

 

Other than that, your question: You can claim back the overdraft interest on the unlawful charges, but not on overdraft amounts that are your own transactions. EG: You have a £200 overdraft limit up to it's hilt, £100 is comprised of penalty charges and the other £100 is 2x £50 bills. You can claim back the interest on the £100 penalty charges.

 

Hope that makes sense :)

 

Generally speaking though, this is more hassle than it's worth as you need a degree in quantum mathematics to work it out with anything resembling ease, and it likely won't come to a huge amount.

reload vs Lloyds - £2703.11 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload vs Lloyds Round 2 - Prelim sent 27/03/07. £435 owed.

reload vs Capital One - £456.57 Settlement Reached 14/07/06.

reload's mum vs Barclays - £745 owed. £375 partial settlement reached 17/10/06.

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters!

 

Advice & opinions of reload are offered informally, without prejudice and without liability. Please use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...