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This Morning I woke up to a nice letter. Notice of debt collection IMPORTANT. your outstanding balance is £501.54

 

Very confused I saw the debt was from Hutchison 3G UK limited. Thats three phone. Bare in mind I havnt had a phone contract or with any company for something like 2 years.

 

My first reaction was too phone 3 and find out what the hell was going on. Back in November 2005, like 2 years ago! I lost my 3 phone, reported lost/stolen paid my dues and canceled everything. Far as i was concerened that was the end of that.

 

Turns out I have to give 30 days notice on canceling my account, which according to them I havnt done. I dont own a 3 phone or sim card and havnt been using the service since I lost the phone.

 

To get to the point apprently because i didnt give them 30 days notice, which I told the lady on the phone I did do, but in all honesty I dont remember it was like 2 years ago, they said they had no record of me canceling the contract. And for the last 2 years have been charging me a monthly line rental, something like £30 a month.

 

I told them I canceled the contract in novemeber 05 when I reported the phone stolen. Check your record no calls have been made, nothing been used on that contract since I lost it. I told them I dont own a 3 phone or own a simcard. They wouldnt have any of it. There trying to charge me for a service I havnt been getting.

 

I told them how come I havnt been getting monthly bills, apprently they have been sent out according to there records on a monthly basis.

 

I told them to use there common sence if I had been reciving monthly bills I would of seen contract was still active/something wrong and canceled.

 

They wouldnt have any of it, got a address I can send a letter of writing too in Glasgow. I may have better luck, then the indian call centre.

 

Any advice would be very helpful, maybe a template I can use?

 

End of the story is there trying to charge me for 2 years a monthly bill that i havnt been using. unable to use due to not having a 3 phone or simcard.

 

Its shocking there trying to charge me this money, they cant get away with it.

 

please help

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something that's just dawned on me, If i had a 12 month contract, dont they expire and finish. They must need to contact me to extend the contract or make a new one. Surely they cant just keep charging me for 2 years, then out of the blue inform me of the charges? Not that even did that, I had to contact them to find out what was happening.

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In answer to your last post, most contracts include a clause stating that it will continue unless you inform them otherwise.

 

In answer to your first, it will be a matter of who has the more likely story. This will require some proof, which neither of you seem to have. I would dig around for any letters / emails / phone bills that might show you did indeed cancel. Also, try producing something from your bank, such as a cancellation of a direct debit.

 

I think the absence of any follow ups from the unpaid bills will go some way to proving that their systems are, well, crap following what you are saying.

 

Without any kind of evidence whatsoever, you may have a fight on your hands. Getting some evidence should be your first priority. You need ammunition before going into battle.

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No the contract period is a MINIMUM so after that expires, you can terminate, but until you do...

 

However, if you are not paying any bills, they kindly terminate for you - so there's somethong not right !

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However, if you are not paying any bills, they kindly terminate for you - so there's something not right !

 

The women actually said something like that on the phone. But that fact is it took them £500 before they did that? surely that should of been done maybe 6 months later not 24?

 

They also mentioned the only reason its got brought back up recently or refreshed, must be due to some sort of credit check thats happened recently.

 

I still don't understand how i couldn't of got any monthly letters. I said this to the lady on the phone, she said according too there records they were viewing letters getting sent out even around January 07. I'll have to double check for un-open letters but i'm sure i would of noticed monthly bills from 3 over the last two years. It seems to me they have some problems or there out right lying.

 

I'm not sure what kind of evidence I may have as direct debits stopped sometime before I lost the phone. When I reported the phone Stolen and asked for everything to be canceled and as mentioned before I paid up my dues by credit card over the phone.

 

They said to me on the phone that when I reported it stolen the phone and sim was blocked but no cancellations were made by there records.

 

Do you think when I write the letter to Glasgow I should tell them my story of reporting the phone stolen, canceling and paying dues. As far as i'm concerned contract was ended there. I refuse to pay a debt due to a mistake made on your end, i.e. not canceling my contract, or maybe leading me on to think my contract was canceled?

 

What do you think would be the best way, as i'm fearing if I have any proof, other then maybe getting hold of the credit card statement paying that fee.

 

The only other evidence I can think of is there log of me reporting it stolen/lost. Why would anyone in there right mind continue a contract without owning a 3 phone or sim card. I find it very frustrating there trying to charge me these fee's. Would it be worth contacting someone like trading standards, see what they say?

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You could try - some authorities have debt advisors who can advise on whethe there is a case or not. You will be best off having some technical help and support anyway, so you have nothing to lose.

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Hi my partner got a letter last years from wescot about a phone he had in 2004 saying the same thing it was a t mobile contract. He got the phone in oct 2004 and took it back within a week, no trace of it at car phone warehouse and hes left will a bill of 454.

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If what you say is correct then I'm sure you will win this one eventually.

 

As a next stage I would suggest (a) sending an S.A.R. and (b) writing to them and making a formal complaint so that you can get this to their ADR.

 

It is likely that the SAR will show up some inconsistency in their story

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3's customer service over the phone is absolute rubbish, however writing to their address in Glasgow can be quite good. I wrote to them on behalf of my partner - when we got a new 3 phone, they barred it a month later due to "suspicious activity" and requested bank statements, copies of passport etc. When we rung and asked them why, they were absolute crap - so I wrote a letter to them, and their customer service charter states they reply to leter within 5 days of receiving it, and sure enough they did - and they credited the account and apologised.

 

You coul always get in touch with OTELO if you have no joy, leaving it for 2 years and then telling you that you owe them money is a bit out of order. I would put it down to crap systems.

Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only :)

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I believe that is what I said....

 

Perhaps, but it is relevant to note that you hadn't when I orignially viewed the forum, and corroboration in support of any standpoint is often useful.

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In answer to your last post, most contracts include a clause stating that it will continue unless you inform them otherwise.

 

Corroborating will mean looking at the contract (which I do not have). The post was also unedited.

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I'm not sure which pedantic point you're now trying to make, but I'll make an effort to correct your misunderstanding, in reverse order. The post being 'unedited' has what relevance in this regard? I use an offline reader to store all these threads, and respond accordingly (at the moment however, I'm 'live'). As to your reference of 'corroboration', I was corroborating your standpoint, not what was in the contract, however since most contracts in the mobile world operate in this way (minimum term) it is not the major issue you appear to wish it was.

 

If your only point to posting is "I said that first". I'm very happy for you. Now can we move on to things more productive than the childish game you started? Thank you.

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Whoa - calm down. I apologise for any misunderstanding.

 

It appeared to me that you were making a correction on something that I said - a correction which I believe was not necessary, hence my first post.

 

I seem to have some misunderstanding here. You said that I had not said what I did say at the time you originally viewed the forum, which sounded to me like I had edited the post at a later time. You then talked about needing some corroboration to support my standpoint. I thought you were asking for some evidence to support what I was saying - that is the contract which I do not have.

 

as for pedantry, I have found that being pedantic minimises mistakes. As for being "childish", well that is your view to which you are entitled, and yours to take offene at if you wish to do so about my posts.

 

I do agree with stopping this - it is merely misunderstanding. Lets not get personal. Best Regards.

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Firstly thanks to everyone who's replied.

 

Hi my partner got a letter last years from wescot about a phone he had in 2004 saying the same thing it was a t mobile contract. He got the phone in oct 2004 and took it back within a week, no trace of it at car phone warehouse and hes left will a bill of 454.

 

I Think its wescot whos contacted me (letters at my other address), what did you do? or in the process of doing? Worrying its happened to someone else, would suggest its not been a mistake, especially if it happened with a diffrent company. Must be a trick they use to get money out of people.

 

As a next stage I would suggest (a) sending an S.A.R. and (b) writing to them and making a formal complaint so that you can get this to their ADR.

 

It is likely that the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) will show up some inconsistency in their story

 

thanks for the advise, but forgive my stupidity whats a Subject access request and ADR?

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S.A.R - Subject Access Requests - are often mentioned on this forum. Under the data protection act you have a right to know all the information a company holds about you. You find this out by issuing a "Subject Access Request" to which the company has to respond (within 40 days) with a copy of all the information they hold about you.

 

This is very useful when you are in any form of dispute with a company because you then know everything that they know about you, and you can find out what they think has happened on your account.

 

In this case you should find some records of any calls you have made - including the one notifying them that the phone was stolen. If they are not there then you can argue that the information they hold is incomplete - if they are it is obvious that they knew the SIM had been stolen and they had not issued a replacement so they can't reasonably charge you.

 

They should also produce copies of all invoices they have sent. If they don't produce copies for the period in dispute then they can hardly try to charge you now.

 

ADR is the "alternative dispute resolution" or something like that - it is supposed to be an independent arbitrator that can look into your complaints with the company. I am not sure how effective these are in practice.

 

Now while you are going through the complaint / ADR process the debt is in dispute and they cannot chase you for it. They will of course but (a) don't talk to anyone on the phone about it and (b) keep a log of all contacts

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  • 9 months later...

Too quote an update of myself in another thread, from a guy who had a similar problem.

 

What a joke, I've had a very similar problem. The only difference is the outstanding debt there saying I owe is £501.

 

You can see my thread about it here

 

I basically used to have a contract with them back in Nov 2005. I lost my phone, reported it stolen and cancelled my account paying up my due's. From what I can tell they they carried on charging me £30 a month or what ever the fee was. That means they carried on charging me for 16 months ish. With out me receiving one letter about it. Jokers.

 

As you can see in the thread mentioned above They advised me too do a sars. which I didnt do. This was due to contacting wescott the credit services agency chasing the money. I told them I disputed and explained about losing the phone. They said they would investigate. They investigated and contacted me back saying "due to the enquiry investigated, nor further action will be taken. This was back in 08/2007, I thought result case closed.

 

Then back in feb/08 I get a new credit company trying to get the money again! I phone them up explained what happened with wescott, then they said they would ring me back later that day. Which they didnt. Havnt thought much off it.

 

Now May 1st its another credit company called Courtlink, saying court action will be taken if not resolved :rolleyes: Funny there about the 4th company too say that.

 

Phone them today to explain yet again. These guys took a different approach and said, so long as 3 tell us to do so they will try get the claim, and advised me to harass 3 directly.

 

so, spoke with my cousin who had a similar problem. He said he contacted ICO, who fixed the issue. So thats the route i'm going to take now. Problem is ICO want me to have contacted 3 directly in writing before they will do anything. My cousin said they just want proof you have tried to sort it out. So I'm going to write up a mock up letter pretending three have ignored me and let ICO throw there weight around.

 

Charging me for 16 odd months when I didn't own a sim is no joke.

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Well I had a big talk via email today with the guys trying to claim money. Anyone know if I have any grounds to stand on.

 

Mr Adrian Dawson

 

Our Ref: ********

Creditor: Hutchison 3G UK Ltd

Client Ref: *******

 

Postcode: *******

 

Further too my conversation on the phone with one of your employee's on the 6th May, I'd like to confirm I'm disputing the Debt of £501.54.

 

To summarise:

 

November 2005 I had a contract with Three. On that date I reported my phone stolen & had my sim blocked and contract cancelled.

 

Beginning of July 2007 you can imagine my surprise when I received a letter from Wescott credit services demanding the outstanding balance of £501.54, which would equate to Three roughly charging me £30 a month for 16 months after reporting the phone stolen. Absurd It took them till July 2007 for them to inform me I owed them 15-16 months of "subscription".

 

Investigation by Wescott after the query raised (which I explained over the phone to one of your employee's) they informed me no further action would be taken.

 

C.A.R.S who you mentioned in our letter "as you have chosen to ignore previous attempts to settle this long overdue account", was also contacted along with Wescott and informed of the error. This has been far from ignored and attempts made with now three credit collection companies to correct the issue.

 

I've now written a letter to both 3G & followed up advice from the information commissioner’s office in the 2nd instance. All correspondence has been forwarded to them.

 

please confirm receipt of email[

 

Adrian Dawson

Dear Mr. Dawson

 

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

 

Unfortunately your dispute is not valid as regardless of whether the phone was stolen or not the contract is still valid.

 

We will be continuing with our action.

 

Kind Regards

*********

Dear Mr ******,

 

I fail too see how a contract can be valid if the contract was cancelled when stolen & not in use for the 16 months your trying to claim for due to the inability to use the service. Not too mention the gross misconduct of not receiving a bill once during that period. Shocking as it was over a year. This also being proven from past credit service companies after investigation. In either case I've taken your recommendation to formally write to Three & the Information commissioners office on the matter instead of dealing with 3rd parties.

 

Regards

 

Adrian Dawson

Dear Mr. Dawson

 

If you had taken out insurance on the account then you would have received a replacement phone.

 

The contractual balance is still owed as regardless of whether you make calls or not you are still paying back the cost of the phone.

 

Please see the terms & conditions of your contract and that will explain what you have signed.

 

You are liable and we will continue on behalf of our client to recover this money.

 

Please be aware that this will have already affected your current credit rating and could get worse unless this is resolved.

 

Regards

*******

 

Dear Mr ******

 

The insurance, calls made on the account etc is irrelevant... The contract was cancelled when stolen. Other subjects mentioned were too support my case of how absurd this claim is. i.e.

 

1) hypothetically "IF" the contract was still active I never received one bill during that 16 months to inform me I was too pay anything.

2) Why had it taken that long for them too realise that.

3) Investigations leading to no further actions

 

we could go on...

 

Regards

 

Adrian Dawson

Mr. Dawson

 

You are simply missing the point I am making here.

 

You cannot cancel your contract because your phone was stolen, this is laid out in the terms & conditions of your contract.

 

Therefore you are liable for the remainder of that contract.

 

I am not going to keep explaining the same point over and over again as that will get us nowhere.

 

You are liable for the balance because of the contract you signed and have not adhered to, this is no ones fault but your own.

 

I will not correspond with you any longer unless it is to discuss a repayment plan or if you have actually have a valid dispute.

 

Once again I wish to confirm that further action will be taken against you which will include an agent visit to your house unless payment is made.

 

Regards

 

**********

 

Mr *****

I think your missing the point that it was a 12 month contract not a 28 Months contract.

 

"Therefore you are liable for the remainder of that contract."

 

Thank you.

 

Regards

 

Adrian Dawson

Never got a reply after that. Is it because he said he wouldn't reply or because the idiot finally realises I cancelled my contract? One thing that has me worried. It may have been 11 months into my contract when I cancelled. But he's clearly stated there for the "remainder of that contract". Which was 12 months?

 

Anyone help?

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Look what I found on the 3g forums

 

Consumer complaint against 3 about unfair contract terms - 3G forum : your 3G community and resource.

 

clause 6.17:

 

“As described in section 6.14 above, we will send you a bill on a periodic basis, which will usually be monthly. The bill will state the amount of the Charges due from you and the due date by which you must make payment. If you fail to pay your account on time, you will be breaking your agreement and we may Suspend or Disconnect you. In this case, you will have to pay any outstanding Charges. We may also set a credit limit for you if you fail to pay your account on time – we will let you know what the credit limit on your account is and, if you exceed the limit we set, we may Suspend any or all of the 3 Services you use. You should not use the credit limit for budgeting as the amount you owe is not capped or limited by any credit limit we set.”

 

So lets say worst case, I bite the bullet that there saying I didnt cancel my contract isnt it saying there they will cancel my contract rather fast, your talking a few months? not carry on charging me for 16 or how ever long it was. I'm assuming its 16 by dividing £501 by £30.

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It is their playpark and ball - no specific time period is mentioned, and if they want to let the contract roll on nothing prevents them from doing so. However a formal letter of cancellation from the customer would.

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:( it says there though that they should send bills, usually monthly.

 

We may also set a credit limit for you if you fail to pay your account on time – we will let you know what the credit limit

 

They never let me know any credit limit also? Seems they failed on two ends.

 

It also doesn't give a time frame about cancellation but it says they will do it. Surely there's some ammunition there. Maybe if I can find in writing somewhere how long it is before they should be closing a contract. 16 months/2 years isn't on.

 

I tired making a post on the 3g forums. I'm hoping someone who works for them might open up.

 

Therefore you are liable for the remainder of that contract.

 

He also clearly wrote the above. I have a feeling this guy doesn't know the grounds of the issue. It was the end of my contract. So do I have to pay for the 16+ months there insinuating. There must be a clause somewhere for Human error.

 

As far as I'm concerned there foreign call centre failed to understand me and didn't cancel my contract as asked, human error, not to mention not getting any bills, 16 months delay. Got too be the key points to work with.

 

I've now sent a email to the executive office of three and the information commissioners office. Anyone else you can think of I could try contacting? Trading standard?

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Logic seems to be the first casualty here - they are advising you there will be a credit limit on your account (to prevent abuse, fraud etc) EVERY telecoms and cable firm I know have a system in place that sets a limit after which the service is shut down. This is supposedly for joint protection, but invariably is for theirs. They are under no obligation to tell you what this is, as there should never be an occasion where you would need to know it. I gather Sky Box Office has a £30 limit that the bulk of their customers are unaware of.

 

Moving on to the 'end of your contract' - how did you end it? Did you end a letter advising that in 30 days you wished to cease the contract having met the minimum time period. Did you keep a copy of it or better still, send it by Recorded Delivery and have a receipt that proves they got it? If not, it is just your word against theirs.

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Logic seems to be the first casualty here - they are advising you there will be a credit limit on your account (to prevent abuse, fraud etc) EVERY telecoms and cable firm I know have a system in place that sets a limit after which the service is shut down. This is supposedly for joint protection, but invariably is for theirs. They are under no obligation to tell you what this is, as there should never be an occasion where you would need to know it. I gather Sky Box Office has a £30 limit that the bulk of their customers are unaware of.

 

Moving on to the 'end of your contract' - how did you end it? Did you end a letter advising that in 30 days you wished to cease the contract having met the minimum time period. Did you keep a copy of it or better still, send it by Recorded Delivery and have a receipt that proves they got it? If not, it is just your word against theirs.

 

That's the thing, I reported it stolen, cancelled the contract but didn't hear or receive anything. That leaves me to think it was never actually cancelled, surely I should get some paper work? I just never thought anything of it at the time due to the fact I never received any bills saying I must pay this or that or a closing fee etc. I just assumed that was that.

 

After reporting it stolen did they send a new sim, if not, how did they expect you to carry on using the service?

 

They didn't send me a new sim, but I remember them asking if I wanted a new one when i reported it stolen. They said i'd have to pay for a new one. I said I didn't want a new one and wanted it closing. I figured I could start a new contract with someone else and pay nothing. Would of been stupid too pay for a new sim when I had no phone to put it in.

 

I think the only real thing I have against them is the fact I never received any bills or anything. And this whole waiting 16 months too two years to let me know of the debt. It would insinuate something ain't right.

 

I think maybe asking for a SARS would be the way forward to see what they got on me? anyone have a template for asking for one? I'm a bit confused to how that works. Do I have to pay for it?

 

One other thing I've got is a letter from Wescott saying after investigation on the matter from your query no further action would be taken. You would think that gives a me a strong case that they had nothing on me? That would leave me to believe ignoring these agency's will leave them to fail in court. But its this who Mark on my credit record that's got me angry.

Edited by DawseyY2K
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Data Protection Act disclosure request

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account No:

 

Please supply me with

 

A copy of the contract for the above account

copies of all invoices / bills

a breakdown of all fees and transaction charges

a list of all third party companies that you have shared my personal data with and a copy of all correspondence between them and yourselves

a copy of all telephone call recordings

 

I enclose a cheque for £10 as the statutory fee for the above request

 

You have 40 days to reply

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

edit to suit and send it recorded with £10 postal order not cheque, you never know what they will do with your bank details

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