Are Lowell having a laugh? ;o)

[risibilis]

Here's my thing with the lovely Lowell group. I'd be glad of any advice that might clarify things for me, please.

 

1. Lowell Portfolio write telling me they have bought 'my' First Credit a/c, and that Lowell Financial have been appointed agents to recover the debt.

 

2. Lowell Financial write, a month later (I ignored the first Lowell letter), and politely ask me to pay this debt.

 

I realise these are standard letters.

 

3. I sent a cca request to Lowell Financial a week ago, with the £1 fee, by recorded delivery.

 

4. letter arrives yesterday from Lowell Financial acknowledging receipt of my cca letter and it's £1 fee.

 

So, it's routine so far but here's the bit that interests me ....

 

In this recent letter, Lowell Financial write to say that they

 

"are requesting a copy of the agreement from the original lender with whom you originally entered into the agreement.

While we endeavour to reply to you with the required information within the prescribed 12 day period under the Consumer Credit Act, you will appreciate this is dependent upon receipt of the information from the original creditor.

We will advise you further if it takes longer than the prescribed period.

yours etc."

 

From what I've learned by reading many posts on here I do understand that Lowell's smarmy letter excusing themselves from the CCA limitations won't wash with a court, but my main question is:

Why are they having to ask the original creditor for the credit agreement when they told me that Lowell Portfolio had bought the debt? Surely, if a DCA buys a debt then they receive all the attendant papers, don't they?

Are they outlaws or stupid? Or both?

Or do they they think I'm stupid?

Thanks ....

[ashmk]

I think they are trying there luck that your a little thick.

 

Let them take as long as they want, its 12 days (+2) wheather they like it or not. Dont panic.

 

Im sure an expert will be along soon to give you more info.

[PriorityOne]

.... because they have probably bought it without thinking that their right to collect would ever be contested, know full well that they don't have a CCA... and hope that you don't know the law.

 

[ashmk]

Id love to go to one of these debt auctions or whatever they are.

 

The picture in my head is a room with loads of post it notes and peoples addresses on them with an ammount and they just bundle in there like rats after a rotten apple to grab the highest numbered ones.

 

Do you remember The Crystal maze game show, at the end they were put in that giant ball thing and has to catch as many peices of paper as they could.

Could that be based on DCA ???

 

[risibilis]

.... because they have probably bought it without thinking that their right to collect would ever be contested, know full well that they don't have a CCA... and hope that you don't know the law.

 

I think you're probably right, PriorityOne. The alleged debt is from 5 years ago, in another town. They didn't have my present address correct either.

I'll just sit it out then, shall I? Wait for the 12+2 to pass by?

[PriorityOne]

At this stage, sit it out and wait... the clock is ticking for them to comply. If they 'phone you again, either hang up or put the receiver down and let them talk to fresh air until they hang up themselves.... while being charged for that privilege, of course.

[risibilis]

Does anyone know if there is a legal requirement for credit agreements to be passed to the purchaser of a debt?

[Goldlady]

I had similar letter from Lowells a couple of weeks ago and this morning have had one saying neither they nor original creditor can find agreement so I won't be hearing from them again LOL Now need to set about getting the three in total default notices relating to this debt removed. Sit tight - doubt they will find yours either.

[PriorityOne]

You signed an Agreement under Under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974 Therefore, if they were to bring legal action against you, they would need to have this Agreement in order to produce it in court and have it re-enforced.

 

If they don't have it... then there's nothing to re-enforce... which means that it's their problem and not yours. They may issue all kinds of threats over the 'phone... which is why you need to have everything in writing only. Loads of folk on here have been through similar scenarios, including me.... so stop worrying.

 

[risibilis]

You signed an Agreement under Under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974 Therefore, if they were to bring legal action against you, they would need to have this Agreement in order to produce it in court and have it re-enforced.

 

If they don't have it... then there's nothing to re-enforce... which means that it's their problem and not yours. They may issue all kinds of threats over the 'phone... which is why you need to have everything in writing only. Loads of folk on here have been through similar scenarios, including me.... so stop worrying.

 

Yes, thanks, PriorityOne, but I'm not at all worried about these Lowell overtures (they can't phone me as they don't have my number), but I am interested in the legal situation regarding whether the original lender is obliged to sell the debt with the appropriate credit agreement. Am I right in assuming that DCA's simply buy these debts 'sight unseen'?

This is a major issue, I would have thought, because of all the credit cards, phone loans et al, that I've accrued over the years, I've never signed (or seen) anything other than an application form. I suspect that millions of pounds are being loaned out in the UK without legally-binding contracts being in existence.

Have creditors been lazy, inefficient, naive even, in the past? Are they more stringent in initiating credit agreements now?

[Goldlady]

Think you are right about incorrectly formed agreements - however not in position to know about new ones as for some reason no-one has offered me any credit for a while LOL;)

[Curlyben]

As and when they come back stating that they aren't covered by CCA simply remind them of this:

 

This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

“ creditor “ means the person providing credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement, includes the prospective creditor;

 

If they disagree then this comes into action,

“ debtor “ means the individual receiving credit under a consumer credit agreement or

the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by

assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer credit

agreement includes the prospective debtor;

 

So then they have shot themselves in the foot and CANNOT collect anyway

 

For more info have a read: http://www.fisa.co.uk/downloads/CCA%201974.pdf

[PriorityOne]

Have creditors been lazy, inefficient, naive even, in the past?

 

Some creditors have been.... and most DCAs still are.

[nannamoon1]

most DCA also will do anything to get you to pay...mine even claim that they issued a CCJ and I now have proof that they never issued a CCJ.

 

I am now going to take them to court.

[ODC]

Clownells et al buy these debts without worrying about the proper paperwork as they think they can bully their way into making people pay up with the nasty threats, untruths and phoney solicitors letters from Hampton iLegal

And then when that fails the threaten you with Red debt collections:eek:

 

So tell everyone about CAG. Tell them about the CCA 1974

[bluetack]

My sons barclaycard debt was sold to lowells. They produced 'application for credit instead of cca. Barclaycard sent all statements.

Trouble I'm having is, do I go for charges back to reduce debt or go down the path of 'no cca, no debt?

I need to get his credit file clean so that he can get a mortgage!

[ODC]

Well as Barclays have probably sold it on to Clownells you would be better CCAing Clownells to see if they do have the CCA. In the meantime send the SAR to Barclays to see what illegal charges are on it. If Clownells cant come up with the CCA - then they cannot prove the debt so any default they put on your sons credit file would be wrong.

[Raeline]

What is Lowell up to? They bought in two 20-year-old Barclaycard debts, the larger fell at the CCA gateway, the smaller, sub-£1000, they are offering to buy in at half-price. Is this a negotiating ploy? What should I offer them, say 25 per cent of the debt, or just sit pat paying my £7.50 per month?

Raeline

[ODC]

What is Lowell up to? They bought in two 20-year-old Barclaycard debts, the larger fell at the CCA gateway, the smaller, sub-£1000, they are offering to buy in at half-price. Is this a negotiating ploy? What should I offer them, say 25 per cent of the debt, or just sit pat paying my £7.50 per month?

Raeline

Have they provided a proper CCA for the one that you are thinking of paying.

[Raeline]

Dear ODC,

Lowell's CCA response was a CCA 1974 form, signed by me in 1990 and countersigned by the bank. My card use stopped the following year when I lost my job. Lowell states my debt at £895.36 and offers settlement for £447.68. Since Lowell took this debt over last year I have already paid off £151.

Assuming Lowel bought the original £1046.36 debt for around 10%, their settlement offer seems rather greedy to me.

 

Raeline

[PriorityOne]

Dear ODC,

Lowell's CCA response was a CCA 1974 form, signed by me in 1990 and countersigned by the bank. My card use stopped the following year when I lost my job. Lowell states my debt at £895.36 and offers settlement for £447.68. Since Lowell took this debt over last year I have already paid off £151.

Assuming Lowel bought the original £1046.36 debt for around 10%, their settlement offer seems rather greedy to me.

 

Raeline

 

It sounds like they might have clawed £151 from you for a debt that's already statute-barred.

 

You say that the card was signed in 1990 and stopped the following year. Have you had any corespondence with them during that time ?.... or am I reading this wrong ?

[Raeline]

Regrettably Yes. Since learning of this site I am only now beginning to understand how to hanbdle debt problems. Losing my job in 1991, the only work I could find was voluntary and unpaid. Which I happily did, just to keep my sanity. Yet for several years I was hounded by BarclayCard, its solicitors and debt collection firms to settle my debt.

Finally, the dust settled and Barclaycard appeared happy with £1 a month - until suddenly Lowell appeared on the scene and my worries began again.

 

Raeline

[nannamoon1]

What is Lowell up to? They bought in two 20-year-old Barclaycard debts, the larger fell at the CCA gateway, the smaller, sub-£1000, they are offering to buy in at half-price. Is this a negotiating ploy? What should I offer them, say 25 per cent of the debt, or just sit pat paying my £7.50 per month?

Raeline

 

Raeline,

 

I used to worked for Barclays 5 years ago I hasten to add (Credit Control) they sell the debt on for 5% yes 5% disgusting, so offer a very low settlement

[ODC]

Dear ODC,

Lowell's CCA response was a CCA 1974 form, signed by me in 1990 and countersigned by the bank. My card use stopped the following year when I lost my job. Lowell states my debt at £895.36 and offers settlement for £447.68. Since Lowell took this debt over last year I have already paid off £151.

Assuming Lowel bought the original £1046.36 debt for around 10%, their settlement offer seems rather greedy to me.

 

Raeline

Seems unusual for Clownells to have a CCA form. You havent used the card since 1991. The debt would have been statute barred in 1997. It appears they have conned you into paying this debt by starting the clock rolling again. Do you still have a copy of the CCA document they sent you

[Raeline]

Dear ODC,

 

You have lost me a bit on Clownells. The CCA form was sent me by Lowell and I still have it. The six-year statute barring confuses me. I ceased using the card in 1991 but have continued paying my £1 per month since then - which, as I have been given to understand, keeps the debt alive. or am in misinformed here too?

 

Raeline