How far back can you go for charges? - now in process

[neilloffhagen 9]

I'm just preparing the letter to ask for details of the charges incurred from the HSBC. Just am a bit unsure as to what date to apply back to? I first opened an account with the Midland Bank in 1975 (crazy to still be with them after all this time!), which were taken over by HSBC. Got married in 1981, so was wondering if 1975 was too far back is 1981 okay, or is that still too far back? Some where here I read about 7 or 8 years back? Don't want to claim for any outrageouos time period that might make the claim more easiy for them to fight or harder for me to win.

 

Maybe from when the HSBC took over would be a good date? Anyone know the date for that?

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

[JamPal 1]

It's 6 years Neil. Have another read of the FAQ.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Apologies for that. Quite right it is in the FAQ pages. Anyway, have now just adjusted and posted the letter asking for the charges to be sent to me. Shall see how quick they respond and then how quick they repsond to the request for them to be refunded.

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

HSBC finally replied - got the letter last Saturday. As others here have mentioned it said "I enclose a copy of our leaflet which explains how these matters are dealt with.". But again there was no leaflet enclosed. Maybe they are trying to save on costs, as they realise no one here pays much attention to the leaflet anyway

 

Well, they have until the 24th April to provide the info.

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Got a lettter from Alan Pretty yesterday. Don't have a scanner yet, but this is the text:

 

Dear xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated 8 March 2006 with regard to information about transactions and charges on your account.

We will forward to you copies of statements covering the period in question. These will begin to arrive in seperate batches and will be with you shortly.

We are happy to waive any fees for the production of this information (and we returned your payment/have credited your account with the cash payment enclosed with your request)

Although many of our systems are automated, a "manual intervention" by HSBC staff may be required for a variety of situations including; account opening, dealing with correspondence or telephone calls, when deposits or withdrawals are made over the counter at our branches and from time to time during account administration.

If you require more information, please let us know.

Your sincerely,

Alan Pretty

Senior Service Quality Officer

HSBC Banl plc

 

Interesting that this letter (anyone esle had this one yet?) is still mass produced. It's nice of them to waive the fee, that I've not actually paid yet

 

Is the last paragraph trying to get out of things without admitting or denying any manual intervention?

 

Still hopefully this week with see loads of letters arriving...

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Arrived home from a few days away to find 30 letter from the HSBC, giving account details fro March 2000 to Dec 2003. Guess the rest will arrive this coming week

[neilloffhagen 9]

The final 10 letters came which contained the rest of the statements. I've worked out they owe me £830.50 in charges. The template letter talks of adding interest on. Using the spreadsheet it adds up to another £161.56 on top, but that is at the 8% the spreedsheet is set for. There seems to be different opinions for claiming interest at this point?

 

I'm wondering if 8% is the right figure as the bank interest rate changes over the 6 years I'm claiming back? And if I add on the 8% now, is there anything else to add on if (when) it goes to court?

 

By the way some people might find this site useful for easily calculating the number of days since a charge was incurred (I did )

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

[jscouser2002 1]

The final 10 letters came which contained the rest of the statements. I've worked out they owe me £830.50 in charges. The template letter talks of adding interest on. Using the spreadsheet it adds up to another £161.56 on top, but that is at the 8% the spreedsheet is set for. There seems to be different opinions for claiming interest at this point?

 

I'm wondering if 8% is the right figure as the bank interest rate changes over the 6 years I'm claiming back? And if I add on the 8% now, is there anything else to add on if (when) it goes to court?

 

By the way some people might find this site useful for easily calculating the number of days since a charge was incurred (I did )

 

http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

 

Why can we add 8% on to the total that they have took off us in fees!

[neilloffhagen 9]

Why can we add 8% on to the total that they have took off us in fees!

Not sure if that was meant to be a question or statement? If this is a question, then I'd say that money could have either been earning me interest in some other account, or I wouldn't have had to pay the bank so much interest on any over draught.

 

What I'm not sure about is whether 8% is right be used or should it be higher or lower, as a lot of saving accounts seem to be around 4% at the moment. Anyone any thoughts on this?

 

Thanks,

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Just back from the Post Office sending my "Preliminary approach for repayment" recorded delivery, addressed to my local branch manager. Used the template letter.

 

Now to wait and see what happens in the next 14 days.

 

Neil.

[dave 175]

Seriously - you must read the FAQ's and the announcements before embarking on this - it's best to understand what is going to happen and why completely.

 

The 8% APR is the maximum allowed under the County Courts Act. It has nothing to do with what they have charged you - and legally, they would be within their rights to refuse to pay any interest to you if they settled before you started any legal claim against them.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Dave - apprecaite your thoughts - I did go and read again the FAQs - I should have said that in the end I didn't include any interest, just the figure for the actual charges. Will add the 8% if it ends up in court.

 

Neil.

[dave 175]

In fact, just add the 8% APR when and if you file court proceedings.

 

If they want to pay up after that (and they usually do), then you can insist on the 8% APR and the court costs.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Yesterday, the letter from Mr Alan Pretty offering a partial refund of £300, instead of the £830.50 being claimed.

 

Thinking of using the letter that Overdrawn used as a template, if she has no objections?

 

"I thank you for your letter dated 22 April 2006, offering to refund £300 of fees however, I am not wiling to accept this unless you provide me with the information that shows that the bank incurred costs amounting to £530.50.

 

However, as a gesture of goodwill I would be willing accept £830.50 and therefore I will not seek to claim the 8% Apr and costs that I will add to the claim if it is to progress to a court hearing.

 

You have 14 days to respond and if I have not heard anything within this time period I will commence court proceedings without further notice."

 

I am wondering why some people are geting this letter from Mr Pretty and others not? Maybe it's to do with the amount of the claim? I'm wondering if all claims under £1000 get it and those over have to work a bit harder to get their money back? Also, interesting that Overdrawn was offered £350 instead of £455, yet my offer was only £300 instead of £830.50, my theory of them offering a set percentage is wrong

 

Thanks again for everyones help in getting this far.

 

Neil.

[pablouk 1]

Well,thats me sucked in!!!!Its like a good soap this!Happened to stumble over this topic whilst reading Martins Money Tips.It had never even occurred to me that those £30 charges for going £2 over my limit would be anything other than completely kosher.I am now closely following your posts Neil and look forward to seeing how you get on....Fight the power...lol;)

[neilloffhagen 9]

Yesterday, the letter from Mr Alan Pretty offering a partial refund of £300, instead of the £830.50 being claimed.

 

Thinking of using the letter that Overdrawn used as a template, if she has no objections?

 

"I thank you for your letter dated 22 April 2006, offering to refund £300 of fees however, I am not wiling to accept this unless you provide me with the information that shows that the bank incurred costs amounting to £530.50.

 

However, as a gesture of goodwill I would be willing accept £830.50 and therefore I will not seek to claim the 8% Apr and costs that I will add to the claim if it is to progress to a court hearing.

 

You have 14 days to respond and if I have not heard anything within this time period I will commence court proceedings without further notice."

 

I am wondering why some people are geting this letter from Mr Pretty and others not? Maybe it's to do with the amount of the claim? I'm wondering if all claims under £1000 get it and those over have to work a bit harder to get their money back? Also, interesting that Overdrawn was offered £350 instead of £455, yet my offer was only £300 instead of £830.50, my theory of them offering a set percentage is wrong

Well, a very quick repsonse from the bank. Send the letter recorded delivery on Thursday, so Alan Pretty would have received it yesterday (Friday) and I got a reply this morning from Mr Phil Beaumont, refering to letter dated 26th April, with the standard reply of no way. So I guess though it worked for Overdrawn and one other person it's not worked for me. So first apologies for others who I mentioned it to in other threads here if it doesn't work for you either. Anyway the question I have now is do I go straight to small claims court now or send a letter before action? Or does the letter I sent above count as a letter before action? They have replied within the 14 days given to respond, but have refered me to the ombudsman. As I said "if I have not heard anything within this time period I will commence court proceedings without further notice" and have had a reply, do I still need to now send the Lettter Before Action to let them know I will now definitely be commencing court proceedings? Not that I think the reply from them will be any different, but just to follow protocol?

 

Thanks

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear xxxxxx,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated, 28th April 2006. As you mentioned at the conclusion of your letter I am not satisfied with the response.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I say again, I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £830.50 from my account.

 

As already requested, I require repayment in full of this money.

 

If you do not comply fully within 7 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs and without further notice. I have given you 7 days to respond as my last letter to you requesting full payment must have been replied to on the day it was received by yourself. I posted it Thursday lunch time, recorded delivery and on the Saturday I had your reply.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

Does the above changes seem okay? I still think I ought to send a letter before action. It does delay things, but there is a small chance they may change their mind before action takes place

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Decided to go straight to action, as on re-reading their last letter it does say at the end: "this represent our final response on this matter" (yes that is how is was, bad grammar).

 

One small question re filling in the moneyclaim form. The forums here say to begin with the line: "You have a contract with the defendant bank dated XXXX". I presume this is the date I opened my account with them? This was way back in 1974 and I do not remember the exact date or even the month. Will that matter? Can I just put the year or take a guess a the month? And of course back then it was the Midland Bank. Otherwise form saved online ready to add the date in and click submit.

 

Again, thanks to all who contribute here.

 

Neil.

[Don Quioxte 257]

EASY TIGER...

 

I've read your posts and you are rightly enthusiastic about recovering your money.. but less haste more speed my friend..

 

My advice DO NOT FILE YOUR CLAIM UNTIL 10 MAY.. I am posting this immediately in the hope that you will read it before it is too late and you have filed...

[Don Quioxte 257]

Right where was I.. less haste more speed:

 

Okay, look you sent a prelim letter on 12th April. HSBC clearly treated this as a standard complaint, but replied on 26th April with an offer of £300 in an attempt to resolve the complaint. Clearly this is not satisfactory, and you correctly replied with a letter (which I believe can be taken as a letter before action because I understand that you included the senetence at the end where you state you will take legal action, and file against HSBC after 14 days...etc).

 

However, you would have been better off following the standard template for a Letter Before Action (that's why the templates are there) for your 26th April letter - then there would be absolutely no ambiguity. You could still have included Overdrawn's clever tool/goodwill gesture idea as leverage in that letter.

 

Either way, you sent correspondence which reasonably represents a letter before action, on 26th April. You must therefore give HSBC those 14 days as stated in your letter. Regardless of the fact that Mr Beaumont replied on 29th April with the sentence "this represents our final response on this matter." You still follow the timetable, and correct protocol, as this reflects well should it get to court, and definitely covers your arse.

 

14 days from 26th April = 10th May. File then.

 

If you want to vent in the meantime then send a one paragraph reply to Mr Beaumont, noting that whilst his letter represents HSBC's final response, you intend to follow protocol, and demonstrate to the courts that you have attempted to avoid this matter reaching litigation. That will wind them up.

 

As per you "particulars of claim", I simply filed with "The claimant holds a contract with the defendant entered into ON or ABOUT month, year.."

 

I am confident that this suffices - though Admin/Mods will no doubt post here if I am misleading you.

[Spiceskull 1,167]

Definitely agree with Don - HSBC are proving to be tricky bugg*rs.

 

If you set the deadline then I agree, YOU should stick to it no matter what the bank says or does. That said, you WILL be filing a claim on 10th.

 

Regarding date account was opened - I too opened a Midland account in 1982, and on the claim form I put "Mid 1982." In this I have a defence - due to the bank's continual reference to me breaking the Ts&Cs of my contract, I made a DPA request for that contract to be sent to me () - I know this ain't gonna happen, so any reliance the bank places on the contract is going to make them look very sh*tty.

 

As with other HSBC posts, this is likely to go all the way, so pace yourself, take a good deep breath and...good luck.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Hi Don,

 

No, I haven't submitted the claim yet. I appreciate your thoughts. I will slow down and send the below letter as a revised letter before action and then raise the claim on the 10th, if they still don't pay.

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear xxxxxx,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your letter dated, 28th April 2006. As you mentioned at the conclusion of your letter I am not satisfied with the response.

 

To remind you, I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I say again, I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £830.50 from my account.

 

As already requested, I require repayment in full of this money.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act. If you do not understand what this means then seek advice from your legal department.

 

I stated in my previous letter I would start claim proceedings in 14 days time if no response had been received. As time continues to march onwards I would remind you if you do not comply fully by the 10th May 2006 then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest, plus my costs and without further notice. As you replied to my last letter to you requesting full payment on the day it was received by yourself (I posted it Thursday lunch time, recorded delivery and on the Saturday I had received your reply), this should be more than sufficient time for you to respond to my request for payment.

Does this look okay?

 

Thanks again Don for slowing me down

 

Neil.

[Don Quioxte 257]

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear xxxxxx,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

Further to your letter dated 28th April 2006 I am writing to confirm that I am not satisfied with your response. Consequently I intend to file a claim against HSBC Bank PLC as indicated in my original correspondence to you dated 26 April 2006.

 

I take this opportunity to remind you, I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I re-iterate that I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that you have taken £830.50 from my account.

 

As per my original request I now require immediate repayment of £830.50, I will only consider this matter satisfactorily concluded upon receipt of this sum.

 

Should you choose not to comply with this request, I hereby confirm that I shall file a claim with the County Court for the full amount, plus interest as provided for under s.69 of the County Courts Act, plus my costs. I shall file this claim following the close of business on Wednesday 10th May 2006 without further notice.

 

I trust that you will now act promptly to resolve this matter.

I mean in all honesty Neil you don'tneed to send anything, as you have effectivelysent this LBA on the 26th April. But every little bit helps I guess. Just a couple of minor changes just to really drive home the point (and try and steer away from the standard template somewhat as it shows you are more than understanding of what you are doing and thus a force to be reckoned with!

Took out the bit about the OFT, 'cos it's not necessary and to be honest they are not in breach of any legislation that would result in them being deemed unsuitable by the FSA to hold a Consumer Credit Licence (yet!)...

Have Fun!

[neilloffhagen 9]

Don,

 

Thanks for revisng my letter. I'l be sending that this lunch time recorded delivery. Post Office is thankfully only across the road from where I work (unitl June when it closes )

 

Neil.

[neilloffhagen 9]

Moneyclaim just submitted. Now a further wait for response from the bank.

 

Neil.

 

PS Have also sent PM to BF