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Barneybubble Vs RBOS (2) £12430.00


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Two weeks ago I started court action after receiving an offer of about 10% of the amount owed (including interest). The court acknowledged today which gives them 28 days from 14th June 2007 to file a defence or deal with me. I have followed the process (before I saw this site) of 1/ request statements, 2/ request money plus interest, 3/ Final request, 4/ offer from bank, 4/ Left phone messge saying I was going to court, 5/ bank phoned and left message saying willing to re-investigate, to which I tried to reply but no one who had acces to my "spreadsheet" had any idea who or why this message was left. They did say they would put another message "up" and I would hear within a week, to which I said I was fed up thier time scale and 6/ filled at court on 14th June. As with my thread Barneybubble vs RBS (1), I have added the interest to the total them use dthis total as the sum claimed. Have I done this wrong and can I rectify it??????? I you can assist would be greatly appreciated. I will post more once I have heard from court/bank. Help!?

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If the total of your claim is:

 

Charges + s69 8% interest + court fee = 'Total'

(plus interest pursuant to ............. at 00.xxxx pence per day)

 

Then you've done the claim correctly. If you haven't done this, phone Northampton court and explain.

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If the total of your claim is:

 

Charges + s69 8% interest + court fee = 'Total'

(plus interest pursuant to ............. at 00.xxxx pence per day)

 

Then you've done the claim correctly. If you haven't done this, phone Northampton court and explain.

 

Hi Hedgey06, i used the interest calculator on moneysaving, then used this as the claim amount plus court costs.

 

I used this amount as the interest on each charge is different due to the length of time since that charge.

 

Is this right, with interest charged on the whole amount (including interest) since the claim started?

 

Should i have used;

The claimant claims interest pursuant to S69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the

rate of 8% per annum, being the sum of £xy.

:-x i'm confusing myself. As my total sum included individual interest amounts on each charge have I done wrong?

 

In this case what should I have used the calculator for? Help!

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Blimey, you're confusing me now as well!!!

 

If you've entered your charges into something similiar to one of these 6. Interest calculation spreadsheets (which calculates when the charge was applied to your account and calculates the 8% interest from that date) then that's the first step correct.

 

So if you're claiming the charges + the interest worked out on each charge as above + court costs............ you've done it right.

 

If you've added another 8% on top of that amount............... that's incorrect!!!

 

Which one is it????? :confused:

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Think I've just managed to figure out your previous post :rolleyes: !

 

You've claimed your charges, plus overdraft interest, with the 8% calculated on each individual charge?

 

At prelim and LBA, you've attempted to recovere the charges, plus overdraft interest?

 

At court stage, you've added the 8% on (calculated previously on each individual charge) and then added the court fee on?

 

If you have ................... no worries.

 

I'm off to bed................. my brain hurts!!! ;)

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Blimey, you're confusing me now as well!!!

 

If you've entered your charges into something similiar to one of these 6. Interest calculation spreadsheets (which calculates when the charge was applied to your account and calculates the 8% interest from that date) then that's the first step correct.

 

So if you're claiming the charges + the interest worked out on each charge as above + court costs............ you've done it right.

 

If you've added another 8% on top of that amount............... that's incorrect!!!

 

Which one is it????? :confused:

 

Wow Hedgey06, that was quick! Thanks for the reply greatly appreciated. Having read the link i may have done wrong. Quick breakdown;

 

1/Used Martin Lewis spreadsheet to work out interest (just like the ones you linked).

 

2/Sent demand letter to RBS with the amount detailed as charges+int=total (as per Martin Lewis template).

 

3/ Sent LBA to RBS with the amount detailed as charges+int=total (as per martin lewis template).

 

4/ filled in MCOL with a claim as follows;

 

AMOUNT CLAIMED £x

COURT FEE £y

SOLICITORS COST £z

TOTALAMOUNT £ABC

 

My amount claimed was the amount worked out on the spredsheet and was not detailed seperately. :sad:

 

I did not detail the interest seperately or refer to it on the form.

 

Does this make easier reading?!

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Hi Hedgey06,

 

Please understand that the AMOUNT CLAIMED £X, was including the interest from the spreadsheets, but the interest was not detailed seperately or refered to on the MCOL form. Sleep well!!!

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xyz............. abc.............. I'm definitely going to bed in a minute!!

 

Bigmac will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's a major problem - at least you know what the individual charges are and what the 8% interest is. At least you've not added the 8% interest on twice.......... which was it originally sounded like!!

 

What d'ya reckon bigmac? ;)

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  • 1 month later...

Hi, time for un update. Sent my chrages in listed as per the court request. Then today receive a letter from the court on both of my RBOS claims, saying that it has been stayed. "Permissoin is granted..to apply to lift the stay specifying why the claim should not await the test case decission". Do I just sit and wait now?? All help greatly appreciated. See also my other thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/royal-bank-scotland/102720-barneybubble-rbos-1-7775-a.html

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  • 4 weeks later...

Today I received a letter from COBBETTS sayong that they have applied to the court to have the STAY lifted because this account is a business account. It is a business account BUT I am a sole trader (not limited). They have invited me to confirm with the court that I want the stay lifted and provide them with a schedule of charges (already done in my letters to Cobbetts and the court). PLEASE PLEASE could someone help as I really am not sure where i stand as a SOLE TRADER ie me trading as. What should I do?:???:

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Can you tell me exactly what type of account you have with RBoS please? Also, which PoC (particulars of claim) did you use for your claim? :)

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Barney,

Your in excellent hands with Hedgey helping you here, but just in case you wanted to do a bit of background reading on other people claiming against Business accounts, you might want to take a look at an subscribe to this thread. It's a long one I'm afarid, but you might find some useful stuff in there.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/68191-claiming-business-account-lets.html

 

Very peculiar that RBS of their own initiative have requested to have the stay lifted? Makes me wonder whether they've found something within our POC that makes them think they have a chance of contesting it? Any chance you could post the actual wording of :

1/ Your Claim particulars

2/ The actual wording of their requet to have stay lifted

 

It may be that you may need to make an amendmant, and Hedgey will guide you through the process.

 

If you feel uncomfortable about posting such info, perhaps PM Hedgey and get his advice.

 

Best regards

 

Photoman

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Hi Hedgey,

 

Thanks for coming back to me on this. My POC were very vague to begin with (I had not taken on board the wonderful advice and details available on this site). Cobbetts then wrote to me saying that they were going to ask the court to throw out the case because of my POC which were effectivelly "illegal bank charges". I sought advice on this sight and found the correct POC, which I pasted and filled in onto a letter back to Cobbetts saying that this is what my POC were to be changed to and asking them to "OK" them. Before I had heard back the stay was put in place. I will have to pay the £35.00 to have my new POC put into place. I am at work at the moment but I will copy the letter from Cobbetts on to this thread tonight. The type of business acoount, which was set up in 2000, was a sole trader account ie my trading as, NOT a ltd compaby account.

 

Hopefully here from you after I have posted the copy of the letter. I will also copy the NEW POC I have as yet to file with the court BUT which are on a letter to Cobbetts for them to "OK".

Rgards to all:?

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Thanks barney. I'd advise you to formally amend your claim (you don't need to OK it with Cobbetts though). What you'll need to do is file an amendment to your claim via the courts.

 

What I suggest you do is have a really good read of this thread. It explains exactly what you need to do to amend your claim to ensure it isn't struck out in court.

 

Firstly, download the N1 form and save it to your pc. Copy and paste the PoC in this thread onto the N1 form and make sure your calculations are accurate on the front page (charges, interest, daily rate of interest, etc). You can't save the changes on the N1 form so make sure you get everything 100% accurate, then print off 3 copies and attach a copy of your schedule of charges to each one.

 

Secondly, download the N224 form and complete it using the guidance in the first link I gave you above. Print off 3 copies, attach to the front of each N1+schedule of charges and take them to the court office along with the £35 fee. The Court will then amend the details, re-seal the claim, return it to you and it is then your responsibility to re-serve it on RBoS. Ensure that you keep a copy of the sealed N1 for yourself too. Once you have served the claim you should send the Court a completed certificate of service which is here along with a copy of the N1 so that the court knows when the bank need to respond.

 

You'll probably need to do all of this once the stay is lifted - but I'll check this out and post back later.

 

When you post back later, can you let me know if you have any relevant T&C's for the account please Barney?

 

Cheers, hedgey :)

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Hi Hedgey, again thanks for your help on this one. I have read the thread. GREAT. And am now filling in the N1 an N244 (maybe a little early if I have to wait for the stay to be lifted, but I wil fill the date in by hand). Could you please advise- my spreadsheet is long and has three coloumns, one being the interest (using the calculator). On the N1 (page 1) it asks for value (big box) and then bottom right amount calimed. Should theses figures be purely amounts charged or should they include the interest. Its just on my initial claim the interest was included.??????? I do not have any T&C's for the account, moved to many times! Is it important?

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Hedgey,

 

I have now printed 3 copies off the N1, N224 and spreadsheet ready for filing. The POC are the ones you pointed me in the direction of.

 

Below is a copy of the letter from Cobbetts;

 

Dear Sir,

 

Our Client: The Royal Bank of Scotland PLC

Claim No: xxxxxxxx

 

We refer to the above matter, your letter dated xx and our letter dated 22 August 2007.

 

It has come to our attention that your claim relates charges applied to a business account. Accordingly, we have written to the court to have the stay lifted. Should you wish to proceed with your claim we invite you to confirm with the Court and ourselves in writing, your agreement that the stay be lifted.

 

In light if the above, could you please provide us with a schedule of charges that you are seeking to recover. The schedule should outline the date, amount and nature of each individual charge along with any interest you are claiming.

 

Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact Alexandra Matich on 0845 165 5101.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Should I be writing to the court requesting the stay be lifted?

Should I detail again all of the charges (they have the info about the type of charge) seeing as how I sent a copy of the charges to them again, when I copied them into the list I sent to the court when ordered??:?

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I've been giving this peculiar behaviour by the banks some thought, and this is my theory:

 

After some further contemplation, I am now wondering (and invite anyone else to comment on this view), that perhaps the Banks are in a bit of a panic about the effects of having masses of cases delayed pending the OFT case? i.e that if the case goes against them (and it most likely will), this would then mean that they would be liable for a whole load more additional interest on masses of claims that would have accrued throughout the stay period (especially if the OFT case drags on through appeal after appeal etc) ?

So perhaps this is their reasoning for trying to get some of the backlog sorted?

 

Views anyone ?

 

PM

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Should I be writing to the court requesting the stay be lifted? Should I detail again all of the charges (they have the info about the type of charge) seeing as how I sent a copy of the charges to them again, when I copied them into the list I sent to the court when ordered??:?

 

Hi Barney - sorry, I haven't been online today (footie with the kids!)

 

Write a letter addressed to the Court Manager (c.c. Cobbetts) quoting your claim number and respectfully confirming as per attached letter from the Defendant (e.g., Cobbett's letter) that you would like your claim to proceed. On the letter, state something like "please find attached, a copy of my schedule of charges as requested by the Defendant". That way, Cobbetts can't say yet again that they don't have a copy of your schedule! ;)

 

Attach a copy of your schedule of charges and a copy of the letter from Cobbetts - that way you're covered on all angles. Take the letter to the court personally if possible. If not, send both letters (court and Cobbetts) first class recorded or special delivery.

 

With regards to the T&C's, we could really do with seeing a copy of Cobbett's defence if possible. You could then send them a part 18 request demanding the original T&C's from the year your account was opened with them.

 

If you can post up a copy of the defence (if possible) please do so, we can then support you to put a part 18 request together.

 

Hope this helps a little Barney, please keep in touch :)

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Hi BB,

This is the letter which my hubby sent to the court late last week in relation to the the blanket stay that the court imposed on his buiness claim. you could amend it where necessary enclosing the letter which you received. In the meantime my hubby has now had a letter which has come from HSBC's solicitors settling his claim in full. This is the link to my hubbys claim subscribed.gif

As V Hsbc

Regards

DS

The Court Section

Barnet CC

6 September 2007

BY HAND

FOR THE ATTENTION OF : MRS xxxxxxx

 

Dear Mrs xxxxxxxxxx

 

CLAIMANT : Axxxxxxxxxxxx

DEFENDANT : HSBC BANK PLC

CLAIM NO : xxxxxxxxxxx

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I write, at your suggestion, following our telephone conversation this morning

whereupon I received in the post today, on behalf of my Company, a stay in

proceedings ordered under the Courts own motion. As agreed, I would be

grateful if you could refer this case and this letter which I have delivered today,

before District Judge Gerlis, upon his return next week.

 

I write in relation to the matters as detailed above, and specifically the order of a stay in proceedings made by District Judge Gerlis on 31 August 2007.

The basis upon which a stay has been granted is with regards to awaiting the

determination in the High Court of the case between the Office of Fair Trading

and various banks under folio number 2007 Folio 1186 ( “ the case “ ).

I respectfully request that this stay be lifted. This is upon the contention, that as the central focus and grounds for the “OFT’s” case is to determine whether or not the charges are subject to the test of reasonableness, as required under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR 99), then it is not of any consequence to the basis of my claim in this case.

 

As a Business account claimant my claim did not include any reference to nor make any reliance upon the UTCCR. As such, it would serve no purpose to delay proceedings in order to await the outcome of a case that would have no bearing or relevance upon this case.

 

As such I respectfully request that the current stay be lifted so that this case may dutifully proceed to be heard as originally scheduled for 22 October 2007.

I look forward to hearing from the Court as quickly as possible.

 

Yours sincerely

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OK, here is the defence.

 

I dont know how important it is but with the defence came this info:

 

"IT IS ORDERED THAT:-

 

1. tHE FILING OF AN ALLOCATION QUESTIONAIRE BE DISPENSED WITH IN THIS CASE UNLESS THE DISTRICT JUDGE AT THE COURT OF TRANSFER ORDERS OTHERWISE"

 

DEFENCE

1. This defence is filed and served without predudice to the right f the Defendant to apply for summary judgement in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. If (which is denied) the Claimant proves the allegation that the defendant debited charges to the claimants bank account, insofar as such charges were debited on a date or dates more than six years prior to the issue of this claim, any remedy in respect of the same, whether damages restitution or otherwise, is barred by the operation of the Limitation Act 1980 and/or the doctrine of laches and the defendant will apply to strike out this aspect of the claim and/or summary judgement.

3. The defendant is embarrassed by the lack of particularity pleaded in the Particulars of Claim t othe extent the the Particulars of Claim fail to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Defendant.

In particular:

3.1 The particulars of Claim set out no fact indicating what the claim is about, are incoherent and do not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the defendant.

4. Then defendant invites the Claimant to remedy the above. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the court for an order striking out the particulars of claim.

Reading the previous replies I have followed the advice to change the POCs to a recognisable form and printed 3 copies (N1, N244, spreadsheet). I will write to the court requesting the stay be lifted and if it is that my POCs are changed.

 

Does this sound OK?:rolleyes:

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I've been giving this peculiar behaviour by the banks some thought, and this is my theory:

 

After some further contemplation, I am now wondering (and invite anyone else to comment on this view), that perhaps the Banks are in a bit of a panic about the effects of having masses of cases delayed pending the OFT case? i.e that if the case goes against them (and it most likely will), this would then mean that they would be liable for a whole load more additional interest on masses of claims that would have accrued throughout the stay period (especially if the OFT case drags on through appeal after appeal etc) ?

So perhaps this is their reasoning for trying to get some of the backlog sorted?

 

Views anyone ?

 

PM

 

PM do you think that it is reasonable to assume that the banks are therefore more inclined to settle those that they can?

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