Sainsburys CCA

[bathgatebuyer]

After pointing out to Sainsbury that they have long since defaulted on my CCA request sent back in April, I've had the paperwork below forwarded on to me.

 

As you can see it is an application form and not the executed agreement I asked for. I've drafted a letter going back saying, "Sorry, you've messed up, you're breaking the law...........etc............etc".

 

Any recommendations where to go next with this?

 

[Josie8]

Is that all????

[yaffsimone1]

There is no attachment.

 

Unfortunately they have not broken the law, they had been in default and committed a criminal offence but now they have provided an 'agreement' that is all reversed. They have complied with the CCA 1974, they have sent you a copy of thier agreement (Note: I say 'Thier Agreement') now it has to be proved the agreement is uneforcable.

[bathgatebuyer]

Is that all????

 

Yup, and a covering letter apologising for the delay in sending and saying, "Please find enclosed your application form".

[yaffsimone1]

??

[bathgatebuyer]

Sorry if attachment not showing - will have to figure out this posting photos thing! Will post it up once the grey matter solves this wee prob!

[meshi]

deleted

[Josie8]

What you have shown is is unenforceable by court. You have 2 options.................

1. Write back, thank them for the true copy of the executed agreement and then tell them very politely that it is totally unenforceable and you will no longer be making payments etc. If you do this they can only produce this at court which would be a complete defence to any action they initiated.

 

2. Write back and tell them that they have not complied because they have not produced true copy of executed agreement as per s.78. They stay in default but could produce an agreement later on ..........

 

Me............I think if they had a valid agreement they would have produce it now.............

 

Good luck

[Belaflat]

Have a read of this thread and you will see that what you have is an application form,not an executed agreement.

 

Unenforceable in court.

[gizmo111]

Amend to suit

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Ref;

I refer to your letter dated 2 October 2006, in which you supplied me with an unsigned copy of your standard credit agreement. The supply of this standard leaflet in no way satisfies my request for documentation for the debt you allege exists – and I therefore do not acknowledge any debt to your company. For ease of reference I enclose a copy of that letter.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

You were in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, on 8th September 2006 and one month later on 8th October you were guilty of committing a criminal offence.

I expect to hear from you within 10 days of this letter, acknowledging that this debt is indeed unenforceable, else you leave me with no alternative but to contact Bolton Trading Standards, and any other relevant statutory bodies to advise them of your conduct.

In your letter dated 2 October 2006 you refer to a firm of collectors, I fully expect you to advise them that this alleged debt is unenforceable also.

 

Take note, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Yours faithfully

[rosierose]

If I were to guess what happens next.... Sainsbury's bank will not pay the slightest head to any of this. They will almost certainly not bother to answer the letter; or if they do they will not answer any point made. I would guess that starting fairly soon, if it hasn't already, a concerted campaign of telephone harassment will be embarked upon.

 

They really don't give a damn whether the agreement is enforceable or not and will chase you until you take some action. Certainly S's are aware (hmmm) in my case that until I have sight of an enforceable agreement they can go whistle, but it has not stopped the continuing telephone nonsense (, despite having been told to cease by TS). Thankfully caller ID is free to BT customers now, so I can continue to log their calls and just hang up.

 

Record the calls, lets get our respective TS offices talking, badger TS/OFT to bring a prosecution under the Enterprise Act, not just the CCA and AJA. If you need a supporting statement to attest to just how endemic to the organisation their policies are, I will be available.

 

Kind Regards

 

Rosie

[diskmandave]

A day trip to Trading Standards is in order!

 

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

[bathgatebuyer]

I've passed this onto Trading Standards along with the RBoS lack of response (their last contact on the 6th June which was a standard response to a complaint letter), as well as the Halifax (who wrote and said, "We can't find your request, but we'll order a copy of your application for you").

 

Rosie, I'll U2U some more info to you if required! Let's beat these bampots together!!!

[bathgatebuyer]

Right, one year later and this hasn't really moved on from a Sainsburys point of view. They've refused to accept they're doing anything wrong so I've complained to the FOS. The FOS say it's nothing they can do anything as they are not there to 'police banks' and returned all my papers. I've sent them back to them asking them to mediate in a dispute not police anything.

 

Anyhoo, in the meantime I've written to the OFT to ask them to consider Sainsburys credit licence given their continued pursuit of a debt while failing to provide a valid CCA. Sent a copy to Sainsburys Chief Exec so he is aware what I'm doing.

[Duffers Mum]

Ah Sainsbury's Bank, don't you just love them...not! Bathgatebuyer, I'm in a very similar position to you, now been a year since I CCA'd them, they sent an application form and T&C's relevant at last year's date I've written and written to them advising they are in default, they continue to say they have complied, my account is now with Blair Oliver & Scott who I've informed I will not deal with, they have not sent me a copy of their complaints procedure which I requested in April, and they have advised me that the F&F offer I made to them (it was made to Sainsbury's not BOS) is not acceptable and that they don't do reduced F&F settlement. Now in the processing of reporting them to FOS. The only good think now is I think they've stopped adding interest and charges which have so far amounted to over £1K.

 

Good luck, I hope you get the outcome you want, but fear it might take a while longer yet!

[bathgatebuyer]

Seems they don't keep copies of the relevant terms and conditions as a matter of course then.

 

Fancy joining me in a complaint to the OFT about their behaviour?! Roll up, roll up, let's join the Sainsburys CCA circus!

 

I hope the FOS reconsider whether or not their failure to invetigate my issue as Sainsburys, like all banks, have their customers over a barrel in all of this. They persist and chase the debt, setting DCAs onto the 'debtor' and potentially ruining a person't credit record in the meantime thereby depriving them of favourable finance when it comes to mortgages and the like in an effort to just get a customer to pay up. The customer in the meantime having to develop a cast iron stomach every time the phone rings or a letter comes through the door as they know it's another 'chaser' from the Bank acting contrary to the law and guidance notes in respect of these activities.

 

Even if the OFT don't investigate this issues further - after all, it is just one complaint at the moment - I'm hoping that they send some sort of correspondence to me which states the legal position in respect of these matters that I can throw in the face of Sainsburys and hopefully help ward them off.

 

I would say that at the moment, I'm still paying payments towards the balance of my card and have offered to settle the account (standing at £1500) with a F & F payment of £400 - generous in my opinion - which was rejected in their last correspondence to me. I'm coming up to renewal time of my mortgage deal hence I must have a good credit history in the run up to this, not to mention my own responsibilities as a professional to have a 'good' credit history.

 

The ball is very much in their court.

[Duffers Mum]

Have they not transferred you over to the joys that are Blair Oliver & Scott yet? They are a real bunch of muppets, who (rather like Barclaycard in my opinion) think they can do what they want with total disregard to any Acts etc.

 

Thankfully we are not looking to move in the foreseeable future and have just been in the enviable position of being able to pay off all our loans and a hefty chunk of the mortgage due to an inheritence, I could quite easily have repaid all my outstanding debts to the credit card companies, however as none of them have played ball with me during my time of financial difficulties and not one of them provided the correct CCA agreement, I felt no loyalty to them in the slightest.

 

I am making some headway with Barclaycard at the moment I offered a F&F, they refused but said they would settle at £X amount, which admittedly was a lower figure than when I went onto reduced payments so they have taken all the charges etc off, however it is still more than I can afford, so i've gone back with what I feel is a good compromise and I hope to hear from them shortly.

 

I would happily make a joint complaint against Sainsburys/BOS and if we can get more to join us that old saying might come true, "there is strength in numbers".!

[bathgatebuyer]

Hey everyone. Just a quick note to say that I have had a great letter from the OFT (similar to that on Alanalana's RBoS thread) in which they state clearly what their view of the law is and where it sounds as if Sainsburys are breaking it. Goodo!!!!

 

Will certainly be making them aware of the OFT's thoughts on the law.

 

[bathgatebuyer]

Right - passed my OFT letter to the FOS who have decided to pass it to a case worker (last letter I had from them, they told me they weren't there to 'police' banks and couldn't help ), but it appears that they have had their minds focused by the OFT and their superb letter.

 

Fingers crossed that Sainsburys realise they can't ignore this anymore.

[bathgatebuyer]

Got my 4 weekly update from the FOS today and they have not been able to allocate it to an adjudicator as yet. Say they will update me in 4 weeks.

[bathgatebuyer]

Righto, still nothing as far as an adjudictor being allocated this case by the FOS.

 

I have written to Sainsburys reminding them of their obligations under the OFT Guidance on debt collection and the Administration of Justice Act that an account must be put on hold while there is a clear dispute in place (and it was passed to the FOS some 3 or 4 months back). I've asked that they refund the interest that has wrongly accrued during that time.

 

Got a confusing letter back from one of their Customer Relations Manager in which he says I am 'not getting bank charges refunded' Where did I ask for bank charges to be refunded?! Within about 5 mins of reading that on Wednesday evening, I'd battered out a response which is being sent today just pointing out that this has nothing to do with bank charges but was merely a request for them to comply with the OFT Guidance and Administration of Justice Act until such time as the FOS reach a decision on the CCA issue. I've asked them to confirm in writing their reasons for ignoring statute and guidance in order that I can assess whether I need to make a complaint to the OFT over their worthiness of holding a consumer credit licence.

 

To say I'm annoyed is an understatement. I wrote a clear, concise letter to Sainsburys asking for the dispute to be on hold and they've responded with a standard type response over bank charges. Just not good enough. Not good enough at all.

 

Would welcome any further suggestions as to how to deal with these muppets.

[Duffers Mum]

Sainsburys are just a complete nightmare, in fact I think they might even be worse than Barclaycard. Saying that I found the FOS to be pretty useless too, I complained about Blair Oliver & Scott and they contacted Sainsburys' then replied to me saying Sainsburys had already sent their final response and if I wanted to complain about BOS I had to send another form? Work that one out. I will have another go when I get back from holiday.

 

I think it goes to show that no matter how plainly we write to Sainsburys, they just don't read the letters, whether its just that they employ idiots or they are just inundated with complaints I don't know. I hope you get it sorted. Barclaycard refunded me some interest and over limit fees when they realised they'd sent me the wrong documentation and I didn't even ask for it (however they soon started adding it again when they sent what they thought was the right documents).

 

I'm so fed up with Sainsbury's now and their constant threats, that i've written to them saying, if you think you've sent me the correct documents, take me to court and we'll soon see whose right! I haven't heard from them for a while now, although suspect they will crawl out of the woodwork again before too long.

 

Good luck

[bathgatebuyer]

Not much to report on this so far. Still with the FOS although I have had to send an amended complaint form to cover PPI matters to. I had hoped to put in the CCA complaint and have them consider that, and if unsuccessful, I would then submit one relating to the miss-sale of PPI. The date of application was 22nd Nov 2002 so to avoid the deadline assocaited with FOS complaint, I've added the PPI complaint to the CCA one already submitted in the hope that these can be submitted together and I can avoid missing the chance to have them consider the PPI matter.

 

Like you, Duffers Mum, they completely refuse to adhere to the OFT Debt Collection Guidance Notes and haven't placed a halt to the addition of interest or other collection activities in respect of this matter.

 

However I had a missed call from a 01224 number yesterday which when I tried to call back it said that it was an 'unused Bank of Scotland numnber' so I'm assuming that it was to do with this as I have no other issues with any part of the Bank of Scotland at the moment.

 

Wonder what they were wanting to talk about?

 

Add - Just received a letter from them thanking me for providing them with copies of letters from the Office of Fair Trading (in which they deem SAinsburys to be acting unlawfully) but saying that they will not be changing their present decision in respect of my complaint

Edited October 4, 2008 by bathgatebuyer

[Duffers Mum]

Probably trying to sell you a loan

 

We had a letter from the Halifax about our mortgage when we got back from holiday, saying that if we would like to pay all our mortgage off they won't charge us any early repayment charge....shame they didn't offer us that when we paid £65K off it earlier this year, might write and ask them to refund what they charged us...seems like they want to get rid of all their mortgages!

 

I haven't heard from Sainsbury's Bank or BOS for ages now, sure they must be up to something, just received a statutory demand from 1st Credit though for my Citi account which i'm going to have to try and get set aside, it never seems to end does it, one disappears and another one creeps out of the woodwork.

 

Good luck

[bathgatebuyer]

Sent a 'chasing' email to the FOS on Sunday just to get an update on where my case is and this is their response:

 

"Thank you for your previous email. Please note we currently aim to

resolve cases within a six- nine month times once moved to our casework

area. However, there ahs been progress made with your case. Our casework

support department are now currently in the process of gathering and

preparing all relevant documentation we have received from Sainsbury's

Bank in relation to your case. Once this process is complete, your case

file will proceed to an adjudicator for full investigation in due

course. Upon allocation, you will be contacted directly and advised of

the merits of your case".

 

Sooooo, sounds as if there has been some movement on this at the FOS end. Wonder how they will treat this as initially they refused to accept that non-compliance over CCA matters was anything to do with them until the OFT suggested otherwise. The letter from the OFT appeared to be crucial in terms of even getting the FOS to look at this.

 

So, not sure what will happen with the PPI stuff I've recently sent them as it sounds as if they would have to then go back to Sainsburys and ask for further information which would delay a decision further. Either way, I'd love to see the back of this card by the time Santa comes down the chimney.

Does anyone have any idea how long it will take to consider cases when Adjudictors have all the info? Half a day?!