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    • One other point to note, the more I read, the more I study, the more proficient I feel I am becoming in this area. Make no mistake DBCL if you are reading this, when I win in court, if I have the grounds to make any claims against you, such as breach of GDPR, I shall be doing so.
    • Yep, I read that and thought about trying to find out what the consideration and grace period is at Riverside but not sure I can. I know they say "You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is"  but I doubt they would disclose it to the public, maybe I should have asked in my CPR 31.14 letter? Yes, I think I can get rid of 5 minutes. I am also going to include a point about BPA CoP: 13.2 The reference to a consideration period in 13.1 shall not apply where a parking event takes place. I think that is Deception .... They giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other!
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    • the Town and Country [advertisments ] Regulations 2007 are not easy to understand. Most Council planing officials don't so it's good that you found one who knows. Although he may not have been right if the rogues have not been "controlling" in the car park for that long. The time only starts when the ANPR signs go up, not how long the area has been used as a car park.   Sadly I have checked Highview out and they have been there since at least 2014 . I have looked at the BPA Code of Practice version 8 which covers 2023 and that states Re Consideration and Grace Periods 13.3 Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN. It then goes on to explain a bit more further down 13.5 You must tell us the specific consideration/grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is. 13.6 Neither a consideration period or a grace period are periods of free parking and there is no requirement for you to offer an additional allowance on top of a consideration or grace period. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________So you have  now only overstayed 5 minutes maximum since BPA quote a minimum of 10 minutes. And it may be that the Riverside does have a longer period perhaps because of the size of the car park? So it becomes even more incumbent on you to remember where the extra 5 minutes could be.  Were you travelling as a family with children or a disabled person where getting them in and out of the car would take longer. Was there difficulty finding a space, or having to queue to get out of the car park . Or anything else that could account for another 5 minutes  without having to claim the difference between the ANPR times and the actual times.
    • Regarding a driver, that HAS paid for parking but input an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number.   This is an easy mistake to make, especially if a driver has access to more than one vehicle. First of all, upon receiving an NTK/PCN it is important to check that the Notice fully complies with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 before deciding how to respond of course. The general advice is NOT to appeal to the Private Parking Company as, for example, you may identify yourself as driver and in certain circumstances that could harm your defence at a later stage. However, after following a recent thread on this subject, I have come to the conclusion that, in the case of inputting an incorrect Vehicle Registration Number, which is covered by “de minimis” it may actually HARM your defence at a later stage if you have not appealed to the PPC at the first appeal stage and explained that you DID pay for parking and CAN provide proof of parking, it was just that an incorrect VRN was input in error. Now, we all know that the BPA Code of Practice are guidelines from one bunch of charlatans for another bunch of charlatans to follow, but my thoughts are that there could be problems in court if a judge decides that a motorist has not followed these guidelines and has not made an appeal at the first appeal stage, therefore attempting to resolve the situation before it reaches court. From BPA Code of Practice: Section 17:  Keying Errors B) Major Keying Errors Examples of a major keying error could include: • Motorist entered their spouse’s car registration • Motorist entered something completely unrelated to their registration • Motorist made multiple keying errors (beyond one character being entered incorrectly) • Motorist has only entered a small part of their VRM, for example the first three digits In these instances we would expect that such errors are dealt with appropriately at the first appeal stage, especially if it can be proven that the motorist has paid for the parking event or that the motorist attempted to enter their VRM or were a legitimate user of the car park (eg a hospital patient or a patron of a restaurant). It is appreciated that in issuing a PCN in these instances, the operator will have incurred charges including but not limited to the DVLA fee and other processing costs therefore we believe that it is reasonable to seek to recover some of these costs by making a modest charge to the motorist of no more than £20 for a 14-day period from when the keying error was identified before reverting to the charge amount at the point of appeal. Now, we know that the "modest charge" is unenforceable in law, however, it would be up to the individual if they wanted to pay and make the problem go away or in fact if they wanted to contest the issue in court. If the motorist DOES appeal to the PPC explaining the error and the PPC rejects the appeal and the appeal fails, the motorist can use that in his favour at court.   Defence: "I entered the wrong VRN by mistake Judge, I explained this and I also submitted proof of payment for the relevant parking period in my appeal but the PPC wouldn't accept that"   If the motorist DOES NOT appeal to the PPC in the first instance the judge may well use that as a reason to dismiss the case in the claimant's favour because they may decide that they had the opportunity to resolve the matter at a much earlier stage in the proceedings. It is my humble opinion that a motorist, having paid and having proof of payment but entering the wrong VRN, should make an appeal at the first appeal stage in order to prevent problems at a later stage. In this instance, I think there is nothing to be gained by concealing the identity of the driver, especially if at a later stage, perhaps in court, it is said: “I (the driver) entered the wrong VRN.” Whether you agree or not, it is up to the individual to decide …. but worth thinking about. Any feedback, especially if you can prove to the contrary, gratefully received.
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nfi247 v argos


nfi247
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Hi all, i am currently battling argos and i am after a little advice please. firstly i have recieved my 'application for an argos card' form in reply to my CCA request, surely this cant be an agreement? then i have also got my statements back from my SAR except they are screen prints of my statements from 22/10/01 to 22/06/06 which are all in codes with no explanation. have they satisfied there obligations? and if not, what can i do about it? any help appreciated.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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Alas, argos have sent me my monthly statement today with a late payment fee after i wrote to them explaining that an application form is not an agreement in my opinion and the agreement is in dispute. how nice, i still aint paying them.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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my original CCA request was dated 08 may 07, to which they first of all wrote to tell me that they didnt have one to which i replied then finally on 09 Jun 07 i recieved the application form. i replied on the 16 jun 07 and have not heard back yet. any advice?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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an application form is not a CCA

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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Hi itsamomentintime and thanks for the reply. I agree with you that i dont believe that they have satisfied there obligations under the act but what can i do about it? they are still sending me statements and still charging me fees for not paying them. thanks

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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then i have also got my statements back from my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) except they are screen prints of my statements from 22/10/01 to 22/06/06 which are all in codes with no explanation. have they satisfied there obligations? and if not, what can i do about it? any help appreciated.

 

The Data Protection Act requires that the data be intelligible. If it is using codes, then these codes should be explained.

 

Write back and inform them that they have failed to meet their obligations under the DPA Section 8(2)

 

where any of the information referred to in section 7(1)©(i) is expressed in terms which are not intelligible without explanation the copy must be accompanied by an explanation of those terms.
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Thanks for the reply Pat, that was a great piece of info. I have wrote back to argos saying;

 

I am writing to inform you that you that the Data Protection Act requires that the data be intelligible. If it is using codes, then these codes should be explained.

 

The screen prints that you have provided do not clearly identify what all the transactions and charges are for and I believe that you have failed to meet your obligations under the Data Protection Act Section 8(2) which states amongst other things “and where any of the information referred to in section 7(1)©(i) is expressed in terms which are not intelligible without explanation the copy must be accompanied by an explanation of those terms"

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i recieved a compliment slip from argos with a printed a4 piece of paper that details the following:

Fees:

2003

1x10.00 late fees

2x14.00 late fees

2004

1x14.00 late fees

1x17.50 late fees etc, etc

 

this is getting a joke. is it really that difficult to do? any ideas on an appropriate response? i know what i would like to write but i dont think it will help

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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nfi247

 

i have an appropriate response - dont respond at all. stop paying if you still are.

 

they have defaulted on your CCA request, meaning the alleged debt is unenforceable, and will remain so until you recieve a legitimate answer to your CCA request.

 

keep us posted

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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hi itsamomentintime, and yes i have already stopped paying them (just 1 month so far) but they are still asking for payment and not acknowledging my CCA request or SAR for that manner. I plan to total up my illegal charges and then hit them with court action demanding for my charges back as well as all payments made if they dont have my agreement. any thoughts, good or bad?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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looks like you are on the right track, wait until they have comitted an offence with regards to the CCA, then start a claim for the UNLAWFUL charges to be refunded

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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as my CCA request was dated 08 May 07, and they still have not produced my agreement i believe they have already committed an offense. what can you do about it? can you take legal action about this?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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  • 3 weeks later...

to update anyone who is intrested, it seems that argos are not taking this seriously and i think it is a matter of time before court action against them. i replied to the compliments slip 13/07/07 asking for there full cooperation only to recieve a letter threatening a default notice against me (18/07/07) and another letter saying sorry i had cause to complain with the same charges sheet enclosed. I replied of course warning that the 40 day limit expires 29/07/07 and they have 14 days to comply with my SAR and CCA request or else i will be left no choice but to go to court. im waiting for a reply as i type. i even have the collections department hounding me 2-3 times a day and they never want to talk about the SAR or CCA request. wonder why?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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as i believe argos are in criminal default, i want to report them to trading standards and the rest but where do you find the address to write to and any ideas on what you would write in order to sound professional? any help would be appreciated.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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06/08/07 recieved a default notice from argos served under the CCA 1974. theres me thinking that the account was in dispute (they have been told several times, in writing) and that while in dispute, they can not default me? let alone that they still havent satisfied my CCA request or my SAR and both are outside there time limits

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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wow, now it is starting to boil up. received 2 letters from Argos today. the first, about my SAR saying that what they have given me (see post 8) was all they were legally obliged to do and if i want statements then it will be £1 each sheet. the second letter detailed there obligations under the S78 of the CCA and after seeking legal advice, they are of the opinon that they have satisfied there obligations with the 'application' agreement.

 

now, im confident that an application form is not an agreement, nor does it satisfy the requirements of section 60 - form and content of agreements. any comments?

 

but with the SAR, not sure where to go from here. i dont think that they are any where near satisfying my request.

 

some advice would be appreciated. any one?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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Hi;

Hope you dont mind me subscribing only at the same stage as you with Argos they sent me my Application form with a booklet of Terms and Conditions, The one thing i did find out was that the DCA didnt own the debt Argos did. From what I can gather reading other threads and Answers i have. The application form is not a CCA and if they go to court they would have to provide the original with the prescribed items.

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Hi;

Hope you dont mind me subscribing

 

not at all, the more the merryier

 

The application form is not a CCA and if they go to court they would have to provide the original with the prescribed items.

 

quite right, by my reckoning. section 60 of the CCA 1974 details the form and content of agreements through its subordinate legislation - the consumer credit (agreements) regulations 1983. the argos application form is not an agreement.

 

section 127 of the CCA 1974 prevents a judge from enforcing an agreement that is not properly executed.

 

i sent argos a 5 page letter fully explaining the situation.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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  • 1 month later...

after passing various letters back and forth, i cant seem to get argos to give me any information of relevance so i issued court action against them for non compliance on friday. they have had long enough to comply now.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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Recieved a letter from moorcroft debt recovery ltd on 29 aug, just sent them ther usual dont recoganise them as creditors and argos are in default blah. see what they say to that.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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now trading standards? if i remember right, i have to report argos to their local trading standards for breach of CCA and not mine? is this correct?

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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receivied my notice of issue from the court today against argos and there non compliance of my SAR. they have untill 25 Sept 07 to reply

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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well i have reported them to the OFT and to my local trading standards. they will tell me if its wrong, im sure.

I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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Good luck on this one nfi247,

Keep us posted

 

Thanks and i will. I was left little choice as they are insistant that they have satisfied their obligations with a list of charges like:-

2004

 

2 x £10

1x £7

 

2005

 

1 x £7

 

this is not acceptable as how can i claim my charges back if they wont tell me all the information i need. well see what the court says. thanks for the support.

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I am not a legal expert and my words are my opinion only and do not constitute legal advice.

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