PPC using trespass not contract law?

[ipanter]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here and i'd just like to say what a great site, i love it when the little guy fights back!

 

My girlfriend got a ticket yesterday while parked in a doctors surgery car park that is next to her work car park. This is something she occasionally has to do as there there is an ongoing parking problem in the area and her work car park often has patients cars in it, often due to the boundaries of the two car parks not being obvious. Only yesterday the doctor surgury had intoduced a new parking regieme and she was issued with a £65 rising to £85 after 7 days. This is a days wage for my girlfriend and we both think it is extortionate and we don't think she should pay it.

 

The ticked was issued by one of the staff from the surgery, but the PPC is VCS Parking Control. And it looked like a police ticket, so much so when i showed it to a police officer to ask him if it was one of his, he had to take a close look at it before being able to say!

 

I have had a good read through this forum, and found loads of great information, a massive thumbs up to petej28118-) for the excellent guide, it has helped reassure both of us.

 

There are a couple of things i'm not sure about though;

 

On the website of this VCS Parking company VCS Parking Control - www.wheelclamping.net in their legal section they mention only trespass but no mention of contract law, where does this leave my girlfriend from a legal point of view?

 

Secondly, i think that we shouldn't respond to the PPC (although a letter of disgust has been sent to the doctors surgery) however my girlfriend doesn't like to leave things (she worries) and she wants to send the PPC a letter, before they even try to chase her, to try and fend them off early. Could someone advise of the best method.

 

Finally, really how viable is it that i can get the police involved in the Administration of Justice act? The copper i spoke to looked bemused when i mentioned the act to him! And if they do act should they go after the PPC or the person who issued the ticket?

 

Keep up the great work and thanks in advance.

 

Ian

[Todge]

If they deny a contract, how can they claim any money?

 

Either way, their redress for your trespass is a reasonable sum in compensation.

 

Offer them £5.00.

 

Ask your girlfriend to read a few threads on this section of the site.

 

I'll bet she goes from being slightly nervous about the whole thing to being bloody angry about someone ripping her off.

 

T.

 

 

The Administration of Justice Act 1970.

Section 40 of the act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

[Rob S]

Don't offer them a penny. It's no different to any other private ticket. As for the mention of trespass on the VCS website, you will find these companies will put any old bull on them in an attempt to cover up the truth. The bottom line is they have to prove who the driver was, whether there was a contract in force and only if they can prove that will they be able to reclaim their losses. I am guessing it is a free car park so their losses are zero.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The 'legal advice' regarding trespass on VCS' website seems somewhat misleading. Whilst someone who enters land belonging to someone else without the landowner's permission, they are trespassing. However, the first remedy is to ask them to leave; only if they do not do so might there be a case for further action. I suspect that the fact that the area is clearly designed to be a car park, and has open access, would also damage any case brought.

 

Are there any signs in the car park, and do they comply with the relevant legislation?

 

VCS refer to themselves as 'Penalty Charge Notice Enforcement Contractors', providing 'parking control service to private landlords and property managing agents'.

 

A few points from their website:

 

In the event where a fine remains unpaid our solicitors are instructed to take legal action and should judgement be entered the offending motorist risks his/her vehicle being impounded until all outstanding charges have been paid.

 

So, which court hands down the fine in the first place, then, since a private company cannot? Impounded vehicles under a CCJ - what absolute nonsense!

 

VCS Parking Control supplies a parking enforcement service that involves the issue of a penalty charge notice to an illegally parked vehicle.

 

Since they aren't working for a local authority, their tickets can't be Penalty Charge Notices issued under the Road Traffic Act. Illegally parked? Contrary to which law?

 

These people are clearly clowns of the highest order. They are worth reporting to Trading Standards for their utterly misleading website alone. Needless to say, don't pay them anything! If they try to pursue it, it may be worth asking the police about the offence of attempting to obtain money by deception.

[Zamzara]

I'd love to see what the sign says. I bet it's totally contradictory, along the lines of 'you agree to pay' etc, which would make any claim of trespassing a joke.

 

The police officer being mislead by the ticket brings some interesting options into play too.

[ipanter]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

You've reaffirmed for me what i already thought; that these guys are just another bunch of robbing gits.

 

I took some photos an hour or so after the ticket was issued, you can see these here:

 

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0645.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0640.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0638.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0636.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0634.jpg

 

You can see that the paper A4 warning signs have run in the rain, and don't state the penaly, not to mention being unclear.

 

You can also see the 'official' sign in close up 100_0640 , and you should also be able to see where it is placed in the car park (above a white door half way down the building on the left.) in the photo 100_0645, which shows the entrance to the car park.

 

The photo 100_0638, where you can see another ticket attached to a car, (bottom left corner) was taken from where GFs car was parked, to get to her work from here she walks away from the surgery, and therefore not anywhere near the 'official' sign.

 

I think you guys will agree with me that the signage is laughable, and that they havn't got a leg to stand on.

 

An interesting situation has arisen, and it appears that it may be possible for the GF to get her work to pay the ticket, if they do so are we then able to take the doctor surgery to court to claim the money back from them or would it be the PPC? Has anyone done this before? And if we won, would that then change the law?

 

Thanks for the replies again.

 

Ian

[dw190]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

You've reaffirmed for me what i already thought; that these guys are just another bunch of robbing gits.

 

I took some photos an hour or so after the ticket was issued, you can see these here:

 

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0645.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0640.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0638.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0636.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa131/ipanter/100_0634.jpg

 

You can see that the paper A4 warning signs have run in the rain, and don't state the penaly, not to mention being unclear.

 

You can also see the 'official' sign in close up 100_0640 , and you should also be able to see where it is placed in the car park (above a white door half way down the building on the left.) in the photo 100_0645, which shows the entrance to the car park.

 

The photo 100_0638, where you can see another ticket attached to a car, (bottom left corner) was taken from where GFs car was parked, to get to her work from here she walks away from the surgery, and therefore not anywhere near the 'official' sign.

 

I think you guys will agree with me that the signage is laughable, and that they havn't got a leg to stand on.

 

An interesting situation has arisen, and it appears that it may be possible for the GF to get her work to pay the ticket, if they do so are we then able to take the doctor surgery to court to claim the money back from them or would it be the PPC? Has anyone done this before? And if we won, would that then change the law?

 

Thanks for the replies again.

 

Ian

 

Dont pay them at all. Once you have left the property any trespass has also ended. The only recourse for trespass is reasonable loss to the landowner which in this case is nil (unless they normally charge for parking).

 

Alternativly make a small purchase from Lloyds. You are then a Lloyds Chemist Customer and parking within their so called terms.

[patdavies]

An interesting situation has arisen, and it appears that it may be possible for the GF to get her work to pay the ticket, if they do so are we then able to take the doctor surgery to court to claim the money back from them or would it be the PPC? Has anyone done this before? And if we won, would that then change the law?

 

If her work pay the ticket, then you have no grounds to reclaim the money from either the parking company or the doctors' surgery as you have no loss to reclaim.

 

If you went ahead and reclaimed and were successful, then you would have to repay her work.

[ipanter]

Thanks guys,

 

the car park is a free, no charge has ever been made to park there.

 

another point, probably not a legal challenge, but the surgery is actually the one the the GF uses and is registered with, so she is actually one of their patients.