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Waxsyd v First Direct


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Hi All

 

Just a bit of history of what i've done so far.

 

Initial complaint through FOS in Feb '07. Received letter from FD on 1st March saying they would respond within 10 days. Got reply on 14th March, the usual fob off!! Requested statements, totted up and sent off template letters etc. Got response from FD on 30th April, another fob off, and they also stated that it would be the bank's final response. Sent another more demanding letter to them and finally received another fob off letter on 14th May. So filed with MCOL which was issued on 15 May and FD had until 3rd June to reply. FD filed acknowledgment of service on 1st June which then gave them until 18th June to defend. According to MCOL they have now entered a defence, which they did on the 11th June. (Thought they might have waited until the death to buy more time?) So spoke to MCOL on telephone on 11th June who told me I would receive defence papers and court transfer around 1 weeks time. Not heard anything so telephone MCOL today (21st June) and was told by MCOL that it has not been processed yet and I will receive details in two weeks time! My total claim including court fee and interest is just over 5K.

 

So, just a couple of questions........

 

I understand that the court system may be very busy at moment but dont see the point of all this deadline date setting etc if its all slowed down by admin. Is this the norm?

 

In the meantime, without any defence papers etc, can I or should I nudge DG?

 

If so, should I point out about adding interest until settled etc. I've applied interest already using the calculator for the six years but am I right in thinking that I could apply interest on a daily basis form the date I filed to when it's settled? If so, what rate?

 

Sorry if I appear to be impatient, I've got itchy everything at the moment!!

 

Hope someone can help

 

Thanks

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Hi, Waxsyd.

 

Regarding the interest……

 

Daily rate is calculated at 0.00022.

 

So, your total claim of charges (not including the 8%) X 0.00022. This should give you the daily rate of interest.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best of luck!!

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I've applied interest already using the calculator for the six years but am I right in thinking that I could apply interest on a daily basis form the date I filed to when it's settled? If so, what rate?

 

hi Wax, Hopefully you have entered your SOC's onto the spreadsheet from this site..

 

If you have, everytime you open it you will notice that the amount has increased, this is because this spreadsheet has the formula to calculate the interest on a daily basis which will continue right up to the date of settlement.

 

Just remember when contacting them to discuss settlelment to have ALL of your figures in front of you.

.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

http://news.sky.com/skynews/madeleine

 

If I dont reply to a direct question please feel free to PM me.

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Hi Dar£n

 

Thanks for your reply. Actually I didn't use the calc from this site, it was from MSE site which was the first one I saw. The one on here is more comprehensive and will now put all my charges into this.

 

I noticed that it calculates upto present. How do I go on if I send DG another copy in a few days time and then again with a nudge letter a couple of weeks after that? The total amount claimed will obviously increase each time but I guess this is what should happen. Will I need to send the court another copy at the same time as DG so they have the new total claim? Would FD then payout the total as it stands at the time or the original amount I claimed through MCOL?

 

Sorry if I appear a bit dim, I'm plopping bricks thinking I've got something wrong.

 

Thanks again

 

Wax

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The increase in interest is expected as you will have stated in the POC's if used from here that you will be claiming S.69 interest @8% + a daily rate until the date of hearing or settlement.

 

This is why we regularly ask if an UPDATED SOC has been sent to both parties.

.

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

http://news.sky.com/skynews/madeleine

 

If I dont reply to a direct question please feel free to PM me.

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Update

 

Have now received 'Notice of Transfer of Proceedings' dated 22.6.07 stating that a defence to my claim has been filed and the claim has been transferred to a local court, namely Sheffield CC.

 

N24 from Northampton CC states:

 

'Without Hearing

 

It is ordered that:-

 

1. The filing of an allocation questionnaire be dispensed with in this case unless the District Judge at the court of transfer orders otherwise**

 

Note: Any party affected by this Order may under Rule 3.3(5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such a party must apply under Rule 23.3 within 14 days of service of this order.

 

**Please note that an allocation fee may be payable in this instance. Please contact the court of transfer for further details.'

 

Obviously I will contact Sheffield CC to see if a fee is applicable but any ideas what the 'Note' paragraph means, good or bad?

 

Below is details of defence filed by DG (FD).

 

1. The claimant's account is governed by the Defendant's personal and/or business banking terms and conditions

 

2. Pursuant to the Defendant's terms and conditions the Defendant is entitled to make a charge for its services as set out in the Defendants price list, including an overdraft review fee for considering whether to provide and providing an overdraft.

 

3. The Defendant denies that the charges applied to the Claimant's account amount to penalties at common law and/or unfair contract terms for the purposes of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (UTCCRs).

 

4. The charges applied to the Claimant's account are reasonable and are properly and fully disclosed in the Defendant's terms and conditions and published price list. The charges represent the contractually agreed price for the services provided and the UTCCRs are not applicable to them; alternatively, they are not unfair contrary to the UTCCRs. Further, the charges are not default charges and, accordingly, cannot amount to a penalty.

 

5. Save as set out above, each and every allegation made by the Claimant is denied. Foe the reasons set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

This is dated 11.6.07.

Is this standard defence or should I be worrying about something? Do I now wait for my local court to send me a hearing date?

 

Thanks

 

Waxsyd

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update

 

Received today, 'Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing)'.

 

The hearing is set for 3rd September '07 so not too far away!

 

It states that the District Judge has considered the statements of the case and allocation questionnaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

Funny thing is I was never asked to file an allocation questionnaire or pay any fee for doing so or not in this case. Guess this part has been skipped then! Can I take it that I wont be required to pay any fee?

 

Should I now prepare and send the court bundle to both the court & DG or should I wait? I cant see any problem by sending it straight away, am I correct?

 

Also, on my SOC, should I include the MCOL fee, ie £120, from the date I filed so it accrues interest or is this separate?

Thanks

 

A quite excited Wax.

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Oh dear, not a quite so excited Wax anymore after reading about the test case.

 

Its been going on 6 months since I started this and looks like it may stumble at the final hurdle with my court date looming in about 1 months time. I just hope the courts decide to honor and proceed with all claims in the pipeline and the banks pay out claims at this stage etc.

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Rang court today to check the situation with them re the test case and was told that unless I hear otherwise, the hearing will go ahead and just to carry on as normal.

 

Phew! Good news I reckon so I will now get on with the court bundle and get it all sent off.

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Update

 

Well I have now heard otherwise and the court have decided to stay the case pending the OFT Test Case.

 

Received notification today so tomorrow I plan to pay the £35 fee and my completed N244 to the court and get the stay set-aside.

 

Hopefully it should do the trick and get the case back on track.

 

Wish me luck!

 

Wax

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Went to CC buildingon Thursday with completed N244 and was told there that all cases were being stayed pending the Test Case.

 

The order I received stated:

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

The claim is stayed until further order with a view to awaiting the test case.

 

Either party may apply at any time to lift the stay, by application on notice, in accordance with part 23 of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

The Small Claims Hearing listed on 3rd September 2007 at 14:00 be vacated.

 

Anyway it cost me £65 for the application to have the stay set aside apparently because of the bit about 'application on notice'! To be honest I'm not sure what it means and the desk clerk told me not to send in my bundle as normal or attend the hearing. She said do nothing and wait for some correspondence from the court. Has anybody come across this before or know what all this means?

 

Also, I've heard absolutely nowt from DG since all this began, does anyone think I should nudge DG at this point or even send them my bundle?

 

Please anyone!!!!

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I have sent DG two nudge letters and have received no reply. I sent them registered so I have the proof.So my advice is to send one or more nudges but to make sure they're registered.

Yesterday I got a General form of Judgement or Order from Worthing County Court ordering Stay of Claim pending the test case result. In the same letter I was also given permission to apply to lift the stay of claim.

I will take advice on whether it is worth pursuing this application, given DG's delaying tactics and general lassitude and inaction.

 

good luck

Mihail

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Hi Mihail

 

Ta for reply.

 

Spoke with the court today and received positive response about having the stay lifted. They are apparently in the process of giving me another date for a hearing.

 

Just about to write a nudge to DG now, hope this does the trick.

 

Thanks again and best of luck with yours.

 

Wax

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well quite good news I think, received a 'Notice of Hearing' from the court today giving me a new hearing date for end of November.

 

Completing the N244 and paying the £65 fee seems to have done the trick.

 

I have, in the meantime, nudged DG but so far have had no response. Not that I really expected one!

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Keep all the correspondence to DG and make a note of the paucity of response from them.

It may be useful as evidence when your charges claim gets heard, regarding the issue for the judge to consider of how flippantly- in terms of customer relations standards- FD and DG are treating their customers.

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Rang court today to check about hearing and found out it's only a hearing re the lifting of the stay and not a final hearing.

 

Think it's a bit poor that I originally had a date set for 3rd Sept and then the stay was applied by the court. Paid £65 for an order to get it lifted and now have a date for a hearing re the stay 3 months away. If that is successful I will probably get a final hearing date xx months after that which may not be any earlier than if I'd just accepted the stay and waited for some decision on the test case. Again who loses out!

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  • 2 months later...

Update & Questions

 

I have a hearing to have the stay lifted on 29th November at Sheffield CC.

 

Yesterday I received a witness statement from DG, that they have filed with the court, basically saying that the stay should remain. I'm suffering financial hardship at the moment and this has been a condition on my application to have the stay removed. DG are saying to the court that I have not provided any documentary evidence to them that I am actually suffering this hardship. Funnily I have heard nothing from DG or First Direct and then I get 3 letters from them in one week. First Direct firstly sent a letter asking why I haven't deposited any monies into the account for just over a month and wondered if I wasn't totally satisfied with the banking service I receive from them. Then they sent another letter about my claim for refund of charges asking that I should contact them to see if they could help and maybe offer some type of borrowing to help my position. Also attached to this was a Financial Statement they wanted me to complete a return. Obviously DG are referring to this in their witness statement. The Financial Statement and letter from First Direct was dated 14.11.07 which I received on the 15th and DG filed the witness statement dated 16.11.07 which I received on the 17th so even if I had filled it in straight away it wouldn't have been back with them in time!

 

I'm just a bit worried now that I haven't completed the Financial Statement and returned it or sent any documentary evidence to court re my situation. I've seen the bundle available on here for 'hearings on removal of stays' which I shall use when I go to court and I will also take documentary evidence to prove my hardship status.

 

Should I have done this before the hearing?

 

Is this standard, has anyone come across this before?

 

Anyone else in Sheffield CC on 29th November at 2.00pm?

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Orgman

 

Didn't get anywhere with the application because basically the judge decided that it was too near to the date for the test case and that I might as well just wait for the outcome!

 

Well that's just great for me then. Sure it'll all be sorted in a couple of weeks after the test case and they'll pay up just like that?? Uh??

 

I never really thought I'd get anywhere with the application for removal anyway, regardless of my circumstances, but I'd paid the fee and got the date so I tried. Yours may be totally different and also the test case will have started by then which may help. It just seems to me that judges are refusing the applications across the board just like the courts applied the stays, 'across the board'.

 

Anyway hope all goes good with yours and the very best of luck.

 

Wax

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  • 5 months later...

Hi All

 

Just a quickie. Still waiting like everyone else is but just wondered if anyone has any advice on this:-

 

Got an o/d with this account at FD and and have just been crediting the a/c each month with enough to cover the interest on the o/d facility. FD have now withdrawn the o/d facility and demanded I paid it all back in one go (approx £1300). Not possible for me to do that so I said I'd pay them £50 per month which I am doing. They wont close the account whilst I owe them money but then sent me an CCA to sign and return for a loan to pay off the o/d. Plus they wanted to add on arrangement fees etc for about £170. Not signed anything or even sent it back, still paying the £50 per month and heard nothing more from them. The thing is though, the balance is only being reduced by £40 per month because they charge me debit interest at around £10 each month!

 

I know this interest is normal practice on an o/d but they owe me over £5k in charges. Should I not be paying the interest or maybe nothing at all and put the a/c in dispute and how would I go about it?

 

Hope you can help.

 

Thanks

 

Wax

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  • 2 months later...

BUMP!!!

 

 

Still paying the £50 per month but have now been advised that any outstanding balance above £250 (which mine is) is liable for interest at 15.9%. They still owe me 5.3K for charges etc and I have under 1K o/d. I say 'o/d' but actually they have withdrew the facility so I just need to pay it back. Obviously it could be argued that this amount is made up of the charges they owe me and they are charging interest at nearly twice the rate I have applied to my claim.

 

What would you do?

 

Anyone PLEASE!!!!

 

Wax

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  • 9 months later...

Sorry if I've missed something but someone told me that I should probably amend my claim re 'penalty charges' etc.

 

Cant seem to find anything, is there a template or instructions on this somewhere and is this absolutely necessary?

 

Ta

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