Wednesday vs Citi Cards

[elsinore]

Sir,is best bet

 

Or madam.

 

Els

[wednesday1867]

Uh ohhhhh, today is the day..........

[wednesday1867]

Well back from court..................

 

I must of been in there for about 6 mins

 

Eversheds didnt turn up, it went a long the lines of

 

Judge: Take a seat

Me: Thanks

Judge: Im happy to lift the stay

 

Got what i wanted with her second sentence.

 

She did comment that she was surprised that they didnt turn up to argue the toss, i replied that i was'nt.

 

Anyway the Judge has implented the draft directions.Just changed the last one, to say if they fail to disclose costs, no order needs to me made, shell judge in my favour.

 

So now i have 3 weeks to supply a breakdown of my charge and copies of statements?

 

The Judge because of Christmas, gave Citi til the end of January to disclose their costs, if they dont, i win

 

So hopefully that should be that?

 

Printed out about 200 pages of stuff for today, didnt even get chance to open my file

 

Forgot to ask about the £40 charge for todays hearing, also had to take a day off work, can i recoup these?

[Enron]

Good news.......

 

Firstly i'll get over my guide to compiling a bundle for your claim against Citi.

 

Second, IMPORTANT: send your bundle to Citi by special delivery - does that go directly to Eversheds as they nolonger use the Salford offices by the sound of it.

 

Third, you should be able to apply for a wasted costs order, if they dont comply with the courts order to supply a breakdown of costs you could compile the figures and supply it when they default on the court order..... to include your days missed wages from hearing, postage & packing etc, paper, ink etc. Though obviously dont be too greedy.

[wednesday1867]

Yeah the Judge said i should send a copy to court and one to Eversheds.

 

Should i add the cost of todays hearing onto the bottom of the spreadsheet along with the filing costs? To give a total balance and calculate interest upto the date Eversheds have to supply everything.

[Enron]

When Eversheds go into default recalculate your spreadsheet, updating interest and add the court fees to the bottom as you are legally entitled to those.

 

Next create a seperate spreadsheet totalling up your costs, putting your days wages and any other costs identifying them and the dates incurred - retain receipts for anything sizeable, obviously put your days lost wages at the top.

 

Then when you contact the court to state that Eversheds have not complied, send in your update spreadsheet of charges etc, and request to apply for a wasted costs order.

 

Dont forgtet to RETAIN the SPECIAL DELIVERY SLIP when sending your bundle to Eversheds - had the crafty so & so's at Citi Salford say that I hadn't complied with the draft order in my claim, the Royal Mail confirmation and slip said otherwise.

[wednesday1867]

Another question

 

Will the court send me a copy of the Judges directions?

 

Also is consensus now that, its just a matter of waiting til the end of January for Eversheds to enter default, or is it likely they may try and throw a few more spanners in the works?

 

I did suggest to the Judge that they might reapply for another stay, as per other threads, but she said they wont get one as they failed to show for this one.

[wednesday1867]

And another

 

This is for charges and default removal, so if they dont comply, i win charges and default removal.

 

There is still an outstanding balance on the account, it is roughly 60% of what im claiming. However when i cca'd them, they have failed to provide anything. So if i win, do they send a cheque or the remaining difference between the two sums? Also if they send a cheque, remove the default, could they reapply one to the outstanding amount, if i then offered them say 25% of the outstanding balance to settle the account, would they likely accept.

 

Its just obviously if i get the default removed, i dont want them to issue another one virtually straight away. Or should i just pay the full balance off, even though they dont have an agreement?

 

I dont mind paying the full balance, because the remaining monies would be offered to other creditors as a full and final settlement on the promises they remove their defaults, as again they dont have any agreements. Obviously only paying 25% give me more to pay others.

[Enron]

Yep court will send directions to you.

 

With regard to default removal, did you include under which legislation you require this to happen etc in your claim (i.e. Data Protection Act 1998). The default will be unlawful because it is inaccurate in that it includes unlawful penalty charges.

 

You will likely receive a disposal hearing date, so would raise this at hearing.

 

If an account has already been defaulted once, it was my opinion that it cant be subsequently defaulted - albeit if you are maintaining payments I could be wrong. You will have to defer to someone with better knowledge in this area.

 

They havent supplied me with a copy of my executed agreement either, so are legally unentitled to enforce the agreement, however have proceeded to charge interest/penalty charges and stated their intention to default me.... so take it that Citi operate as a law unto themselves and will pretty much do whatever they want - legal or not.

[wednesday1867]

Regarding the CCA, i havent heard a word off Citi for months, maybe even over a year, no statements, nothing at all. Not chasing me for anything. Dont know if that has to do with the court case, or lack of CCA.

 

My POC reads such for the default.

 

As the Default amount is solely made up of unlawful charges, the recorded amount is inaccurate. So the default needs to be removed in accordance with Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1999.

 

Is/Was that enough?

Edited November 28, 2008 by wednesday1867

[MARTIN3030]

You will get a copy of the order yes.

Unless it says defendants at liberty to apply (for stay to be lifted)..then theyve no chance.

 

Your default removal has been done as per the protocols s10 etc.

Its a case of not signing discontiunence or accepting as full settlement UNTIL they sort out default issues.

 

A wasted costs order is usually filed AFTER judgement,and can be done by letter,but better done on notice,of course including the fee for lodging it.

[MARTIN3030]

Regarding the CCA, i havent heard a word off Citi for months, maybe even over a year, no statements, nothing at all. Not chasing me for anything. Dont know if that has to do with the court case, or lack of CCA.

 

My POC reads such for the default.

 

As the Default amount is solely made up of unlawful charges, the recorded amount is inaccurate. So the default needs to be removed in accordance with Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1999.

 

Is/Was that enough?

 

Since its in litigation and therefore dispute status,they could not resume enforcement.

The absence of the CCA request is likely to be they havnt got it.

[MARTIN3030]

Theres a problem here specifically that the unlawfulness of charges has not been determined conclusively.(OFT Case)

However the continuence to process your data is one that you can use.

[wednesday1867]

Just out of curiousity and impatience how long roughly should it be, before i receive the directions? Obviously i have a time limit to supply the documents and id rather send off everything i need in one go.

[wednesday1867]

Still haven't had the directions off the court, i'm gonna give them a bell tomorrow and see if they are or have sent them out.

 

When the Judge went over the draft directions, she renumbered them and rewrote them, i didnt see them, so obviously i can only go on the draft directions.

 

That being the case, where can i find assistance with these 2 points:

 

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise

 

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

Thanks

[Enron]

It could take some time to go through the court, but certainly doesnt harm phoning to ask.

[wednesday1867]

Its just that my 3 weeks to supply the required information, runs out next week.

[wednesday1867]

Well sods law states the day i ring them, its the same day the directions turns up

 

Well here they are

 

1 The stay is removed

 

2. Schedule of Charges (Done)

Copies of Statements (Done)

 

A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise (Not Done, Where to start)

 

Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon. (Not Done, Where to Start)

 

Im only here for a minute, as im off to watch Wednesday (win)

 

I'd like to get the last two done over the next few nights, so i can get it all in the post and done and dusted.

 

 

Also lastdirection for them reads

 

If the defendant fails to comply with this order, the defence will be struck out and judgement will be entered for the claimant without further order of the court.

 

So i take it i should receive their bundle before their deadline, if i or the court dont receive it, what happens?

 

Thanks again

[MARTIN3030]

Good result so far.

I am at the same stage.

Enron has given me a list but some of the photobucket links are unreadable.I have until December 24th to do mine hearing is set for February.

In view of the other sides monitoring here-its not advisable to be putting anything up which will give them benefit.

Therefore I will be emailing you.

 

Martin

[Enron]

Let me know which documents are unreadable, and i'll try my best to improve. From memory there is one quoting that penalty charges are a sanction which is a bit poor.

[MARTIN3030]

As you know-the Citi claimant we were trying to find ha now surfaced -so its possible that he may have some better quality stuff failing that Gary K will surely have it.

I was meaning to ask-Wednesday....does your claim concern the old associates card or the later Citicard ?

Its just for the terms and conditions.

Let us know

[Enron]

We have Associates Terms & Conditions (listed as part of the Citigroup), which effectively states they have the right to pass their costs onto you.

 

Thing is the individual cost of an automated process as part of a large IT system is negligible. A Yorkshire Bank whistleblower putting its least cost for an automated process at 2.5p, and highest cost at £2.50 for a process involving human involvement.

 

We also have it from Brian Smith solicitor who was working on behalf of Citi at the time that the penalty charge is a sanction, i.e. there to stop you doing it again.

 

Citi have submitted cost exhibits to court stating that they're costs are £12.88, £13.47 and £25.74.... but have never been willing to substantial this, an action which if their charges were correct would allow them to pass the full cost onto customers.

[wednesday1867]

Well going on the statements i have, my charges are set on statements from Peoples Banks and Citi Cards

Edited December 11, 2008 by wednesday1867
Maybe too much info.....

[wednesday1867]

Still having bother trying to put this together.

 

I don't feel i need to do a full bundle at this stage, as my directions are quite specific, or am i wrong, why do i need to do a full bundle?

 

I cant see what covers this on here or within the full bundle, am i being thick?

 

A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise

 

 

Now the last part

 

Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

 

I still can only find one spreadsheet showing 4 cases against Citi and they arent settled? I take it CitiBank International is different to Citi Cards? Theres some settled cases with Citibank International. Also what kind of legal materials will be required?

[MARTIN3030]

Taking a look.

I am at home all day,and so will be emailing you.