Natwest settled! v CPR18 from Cobbetts!

[hedgey06]

Hi again reclaimone,

 

It's important to point out that the OFT test case is looking at the UTCCR's - and these don't apply to business claims. Therefore, whilst business claims were inititally 'stayed', we're increasingly finding that the stays are being lifted and the claims proceeding as normal. Subsequently, once you file at court you should find that the claim proceeds regardless of the test case.

 

Therefore, file your claim as normal. As haydn pointed out above though, don't use MCOL as there simply isn't enough space to adequately particularise your claim. File N1 at your local county court and use the PoC in the bank templates for business claims.

 

As Ed has already mentioned, there really isn't much point using a claims management company. They tend to glean most of their information from this site anyway - and charge you a fortune in the process! Providing you post up on this thread at every step of the way you'll get all the advice you need to pursue this claim to a successful outcome.

 

I've just noticed in your last post that Nat West haven't provided a full breakdown of the charges that have been applied to this account though. I'm a bit confused by this - can you confirm that you definitely have all of the statements showing penalty charges applied for the time-period that you're reclaiming please?

[reclaimone]

Hi,

 

Never received prenotofication sheets that i asked for on numerous occasions to no avail!

 

Just have asked for the charges on each statement.

[reclaimone]

Do I need to proceed with N1 claim now bearing in mind Natwest have never tried to provide a breakdown.

[hedgey06]

Providing you have all of the relevant statements with the charges you're reclaiming, you're ready to file N1 (with business PoC ) at your local court.

[reclaimone]

Thanks Hedgey,

 

I was worried the lawyer at court might rip me apart as the charges on statements are not broken down.

[hedgey06]

Don't worry, you'll be fine with statements - they're all the proof you'll need that they took the penalty charges from the account.

[reclaimone]

Thanks matey

[reclaimone]

One last thing Hedgey!

My spreadsheet says:

 

Penalty Charged 13810.77

8% on Penalties 4161.13

Interest on Penalties 2899.52

8% on Interest on Penalties 694.55

 

Shall I claim for just top 2 i.e Charges plus 8% or

 

Go for the whole lot compounded? Not sure about law on latter?

 

Thanks as always for the advice

[hedgey06]

I wouldn't go for the compounded/contractual rate of interest to be honest - the courts don't take a very good view of contractual interest claims. Although a few claimants have been successful with this, it's very difficult to pursue and you need to read up very carefully on it (there are a couple of threads in the general forum on contractual interest).

 

IMVHO, the stat (8%) interest is the best option and the one that the courts tend to side with - so I'd be inclined to claim for the top two lines only.

[reclaimone]

Thanks I'l get cracking!

[reclaimone]

One last thing Hedgey - just making sure.

 

Can Claim For

Excess Borrowing

Account Charges

Cheque Return Fee

Unpaid DD fee

Referral Fee

Unpaid so fee

Unpaid Cheque

 

Cannot Claim For

Stop cheque

arrangement fees over £25

 

Im not claiming the overdraft interest - is that correct?

[hedgey06]

All present and correct mate! With the 'account charges' - they'll probably fit into one of the other descriptions anyway (excess borrowing, etc).

[reclaimone]

I have one slight worry!

Found one sheet going way back which details account charges.

The bank are charging for cheques and money paid in etc.

I know i cant claim for this?

Crap west never itemised account charges after this statement.

So im worried that all account charges im claiming for will be kicked out in court.

What da ya reckon?

[hedgey06]

Could be a very real possibility where nat west are concerned to be honest. They started lumping charges on general 'consumer' statements a few years ago as well (e.g., unarranged borrowing fee was lumped with the advantage gold fee - UBF is a penalty charge, AG isn't).

 

What I'd advise doing is looking at the charges you've incurred after they started lumping them all together. Does the total charge add up to a couple of items that they used to itemise individually? If so, it's possible to tease out the penalty charges from the account service charges. That way, you'll know for sure that you're reclaiming the correct amount.

 

Also have a look at the sticky on Nat West Charges as well - I'm pretty sure it highlights business charges on there. If not, I'll have a trawl through some past business claim threads to see if there's anything useful for you.

[reclaimone]

The total charges listed are consistent with the itemised sheet I had.

So I think I will have to get a breakdown unless you have any ideas?

 

God i hate them!

[hedgey06]

They're incredibly easy to hate........... but also incredibly easy to suss out after a while as well!

 

If you can't suss out the actual charges that have been applied, it'll be worth getting an actual breakdown just to ensure that you reclaim the correct amount of charges. This is particularly important once you get to the court stage - so it's best to get the full breakdown beforehand. x

[photoman]

Hi reclaimone

 

Just thought you might be interested in a thread we have going for Business account claimants.

Several Business claimants have all subscribed to this thread, shared their experiences, ideas and information more specific to Business claims. Then gone on to win (including myself). Hopefully you too will find some very useful stuff here.

Bit of a long thread now, but well worth the time to read through.

 

The link is in my signature.

 

Just to re-affirm Hedgey's post:

 

You can reclaim for:

 

Excess Borrowing fees

Cheque Return Fee

Unpaid DD fee

Referral Fee

Unpaid so fee

Unpaid Cheque

(unless of course any of the above were as a result of your own request, ie; you contacting your bank to stop a cheque etc being paid)

 

Then you also claim for any additional interest incurred upon your account as a result of these charges (eg; the interest each month due to a current or previous £25 cheque return fee. And remember that these interest charges will acrue and also increase with more charges each and every month. So for example a £25 charge 2 years ago would still be the cause of some of the interest paid by yourself on you account even today. This form of interest is applied by the bank on a compounded basis. There are spreadsheets around this site that help calculate how this is calculated.

 

You can then either charge 8% statutory interest upon the whole lot, or if your prepared to put in some further time and effort to research, you could attempt for compounded interest at their own rates. Many claimants who have/are attempting to get compounded interest put on their claim forms that if the court decides it is not permitted, then the statutory 8% should still be awarded in the alternative. So IMHO, worth researching and applying for as you've nothing to lose

 

You cannot claim for normal banking fees. eg, monthly account maintenance fees, or the individual charges that many business accounts incur for normally clearing items eg, the 25p or whatever per cheque etc.

 

Good luck

 

PM

[reclaimone]

Hi folks.

 

I opened my natwest account 2004.

Received SAR details with charges up to Dec 2007.

I sent a LBA to them which they have acknowledged obv referring to OFT test case.

 

I have had 3 more months charges since then and wish to amend amount claiming for.

 

can i send my second LBA letter with a paragraph saying I want to claim all charges till OFT test case concluded?

 

anyone have any ideas, and how to phrase in my letter?

[sea-sidelady]

You don't have to send another letter. You can just keep adding on more charges up until you file at court.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, reclaimone.

 

I'm sure you can add on any further charges you incur when you file at court. You only send 1 LBA, the first letter you sent would be your prelim.

 

Did'nt see you there, SSL.

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[reclaimone]

Understand that I can add more charges. Do i need to file a court claim? Thought I just had to wait on outcome of test case?

If OFT won - bank would pay out as i had a complaint registered?

 

regards

RC

[sea-sidelady]

No, you don't have to wait. You can file at court when ever you are ready. And if you file at court, you will get the daily interest building on your claim aswell.

 

(Good timing Scott... )