Telephone harassment - an action plan

[pudef]

Thanks Scabhunter, thats all i needed to know. The guy Mr Amin (made up name i think!) tried to assure me that i had to provide a telephone number like it was a legal requirment. This is a debt from Welcome Finance from 2003 and defaulted in - for reasons not worth going into - 2005. How would i stand with the six year thingy ??

[The GodMother]

it is 3 more years but if you can remember the month and the exact date, as in 21 oct 2008, then it would work more to your favor as it then becomes SB on that date in 6 years. All thou the exception to the rule is if you are in Scotland where it is 5 years.

[pudef]

Thanks for that Godmother i will check it out and see dates. What does SB mean ?? I am in Scotland by the way.

 

Thanks again.

[cbd13]

Hi all.

I have been receiving calls at work from Right Moronic Ar**holes for the last month. Told them to write to me only numerous times. Have a answerphone message from this week saved on mobile from them where the confirm that ringing at work is not convenient. Last night they called my office number 7 times despite being told I had gone home. Eventually my manager spoke to them (very professionally apparantly) asking who they were.

 

What is my next action? Which letter should I use?

I am sending a CCA 12+2 letter today as not enforceable, should I amalgamte?

 

Many thanks

cbd13

[ODC]

Lowells used to ring me on a regular basis to work. They spoke to me and I told them I wasnt in and anyways the company did not permit its staff to have business calls during working hours. The muppet said they would call until they got me. I said well ''I am the owner of this company and if you continue to call Mr ODC despite my instructions to you then you will be hearing from our solicitors'' The muppet started to ramble on some nonsense to which I still pretending to be my boss said ''We are a professional company, we record all calls, the date is XXXXX the time is xxxxx and I am now advising you that all your calls to this company will cost a minimum of £75 per hour plus v.a.t.'' Strangely enough there was no response

[The GodMother]

Thanks for that Godmother i will check it out and see dates. What does SB mean ?? I am in Scotland by the way.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

SB means statue barred.

[ODC]

Thanks for that Godmother i will check it out and see dates. What does SB mean ?? I am in Scotland by the way.

 

Thanks again.

In England, Wales and Nothern Ireland a debt becomes Statute Barred if after 6 years there has been no written acknowledgement or payment. In Scotland the period is 5 years

[The GodMother]

I am not fully aware of Scottish law but there is a rule based on where u sign it.

 

If u signed the Alleged agreement on English soil it follows the english laws but if it is on Scottish soil it is scottish rules.

[ODC]

As far as I am aware you are governed by the law of the country in which you are resident

[The GodMother]

I was told by someone on here ages ago now that if the agreement was signed on English soil and u then moved to Scotland then it is English law. But then i may be wrong.

[ODC]

They cannot prosecute you under English Law if you live in Scotland. See the OFT guidelines

[rory32]

I was told by someone on here ages ago now that if the agreement was signed on English soil and u then moved to Scotland then it is English law. But then i may be wrong.

I'm afraid you are definitely wrong and it has nothing to do with the OFT guidelines. It is set in statute. Under a consumer contract you can only be sued in the courts where you are domiciled.

 

If you were sued in England when you are domiciled in Scotland it would be legally incompetent as the County Court does not have jurisdiction.

 

Can I be sued in England? | free help from Govan Law Centre , Glasgow

[ODC]

sorry Rory but I was not implying that it was because of the OFT guidelines that you could not be prosecuted in a Court outside your jurisdiction. I merely meant to show that even the OFT regulations point out that DCAs threatening you with English Legislation in Scotland or N.I. are talking nonsense

[renegotiation]

I never updated this thread after my correspondence with the OFT. I made my case about the fact that there should be a dedicated webform on their site for the reporting of telephone harassment. I stressed the seriousness of this issue and the damage it is doing to the health and wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of people. I also pointed out the fact that many letters sent to creditors demanding that the harssment stop, based on English law as well, had actually been ignored. I did get a response and I do get the impression that the OFT listen and have good staff. I have contacted them by phone and email on a few occasions now and I always seem to get throuigh to someone who actually cares. This is a copy of the letter I sent:

 

 

 

 

I am sending this complaint form in response to the disgusting behaviour of creditors and debt collection agencies harassing good folk in their homes by telephone. I consider this to be a very insidious and invasive form of harassment and am sure that it causes tremendous stress and grief across the country on a daily basis. This harassment even continues after people have sent off official letters quoting the ‘Administration Of Justice Act 1970’ via registered mail, though the harassment has admittedly stopped for some people. I know that the O.F.T. doesn’t specifically deal with individual cases and just accepts information from the public to input on to its database to help identify where problems lie. I am not expecting you to deal with individual cases. I would like to see you create a simple webform dedicated to the reporting of telephone harassment ‘after’ letters requesting that it stop have been ignored. You should also make a public statement on this issue that leaves these harassers with no doubt about your position on the matter.This is a very serious issue and I don’t think you are taking it seriously enough. It makes people ill and I am convinced it has contributed to suicides. Nothing stops these creditors and agencies from writing, though of course there should be a limit on that as well. The webform could just ask for a copy of the letter sent, who it was sent to and for the registered mail reference number. It could also ask for a brief outline of the level of harassment being suffered and for a copy of any reply received. The webform should be aimed specifically at individuals, unlike this one, and the simpler the better. You would soon be able to build up a picture of what is going on and decide whether any action needs to be taken against an organisation. Please look into this and don’t ignore it.

 

 

 

 

This is the response I got:

 

 

 

Thank you for your email received on 17 July 2008. I apologise for the delay of our response.

 

I found your comments on the consumer credit market very interesting, and I have passed on the details to our policy makers in Credit Group. The notion of a webform dedicated to the reporting of telephone harassment has a great deal of merit, and I certainly agree that there would be an advantage to such a system. You may be interested to know that in recent months the OFT has met with several other consumer protection groups to discuss methods of contact, including the use of webforms. I will ensure that your comments are passed on to the interested parties.

 

For some background information, that you may already be aware of, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the Act) established a licensing system to protect the interests of consumers in the credit area. If a business wishes to undertake the collection of debts that arise from consumer credit agreements then the Act states that they are required to hold a consumer credit licence; this is issued by the OFT. Under the Act, the OFT has a duty to consider the fitness of all traders who hold consumer credit licences.

 

In considering fitness we take into account whether a business has engaged in improper business practices. Where we receive complaints about the business practices of licensees, we investigate them and where appropriate we take enforcement action; that action depends on the evidence and circumstances. Action the OFT can take includes revoking, refusing or suspending a licence; or placing conduct requirements on the licence of the company or business in question (failure to comply with a conduct requirement can result in a financial penalty being levied).

 

The OFT has issued guidance to consumer credit licence holders engaged in the debt collection industry. The guidance is intended to ensure that debt collectors treat debtors fairly. Non-compliance with this guidance will call into question the fitness of licence holders and applicants. You can view our guidance at: http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/cca/debt-collection

 

For some information about our current or recent work in our role as the regulator for the consumer credit market, I would like to refer you to numerous press released that can be viewed on our website:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/news/press/

 

This will give some examples of the type of work that is in constant operation within the OFT. In particular you may be interested in our press release of 9 April 2008 relating to action taken against 13 of the most complained about debt collectors in the UK (attached). We have been monitoring consumer complaints for matters relating to companies, and will soon be taking enforcement action against those who have not taken steps to change their methods in line with OFT guidance. Unfortunately I am prohibited from disclosing further information about this matter under Section 9 of the Enterprise Act.

 

Thank you again for writing to us. We are very grateful for your views.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I then sent one futher email:

 

I appreciate the reply. There is one point I would like to add. I think it would be a good idea for a blanket ban to be introduced on phone calls to debtors over 70.

 

 

 

And got the following response:

 

Thank you for your email of 12 August 2008. Your further input is appreciated. We do take seriously all feedback and views we receive, so please do contact us again if you have any further comments.

 

 

 

I hope everyone keeps updating the threads on letters respected or not, as it does provide a good snapshot of what is going on.

Edited November 19, 2008 by renegotiation

[The GodMother]

cap one have lost my money.

 

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

The above link is in regard to my C1 problem.

 

I have issued a claim at my local county court against them for harrassement.

 

now despite in writing as part of there defence them claiming to have removed my mobile telephone number from ther system i recieved a withheld number call from them tonight. It was fun as the woman was indian or summing as i could not understand her. Numerous time i said get me someone who can speak english, get me a manager, get me a supervisor she said she was not supervised or managed. I refused the security questions and hung up.

 

So despite court action and despite in writing them saying they have removed my number they are still calling me what does everybody suggest. Please remember i need to follow the law.

[ScabHunter]

God bless you for taking these (edit) to court for harassment. I only wish I could state my opinion of them here, but too many of my posts attract the attentions of the CAGBot as it is.

 

You can probably guess what that opinion is, anyway.

 

What I suggest is simple. Record every call. Make sure you record every last one. It will be a simple matter to prove that what is in their defence is nothing but a BLATANT LIE.

 

If you haven't got a recorder for your home line, get one as quickly as you can. I know there is information about recording gear on here somewhere, if you can't find it PM fuzzy - he'll know.

 

To be honest I've no idea how this works with cell phones - I've never owned such a thing, but if you can plug a hands free kit into a socket, you must be able to plug some kind of recording device in there.

 

When you get the nuisance calls, make sure you mention the word "harassment" as often as you can. Say you want the harassment reporting to the managers. Make sure this is on every recording and every transcript.

 

To be honest, just for now, you want as much harassment as you can get. So long as it is admissible evidence.

 

SH

[Guest symbio-dek]

I know your pain Godmother . . .

Despite my telephone harrassment letter to Black horse, following weeks and weeks of harrassing automatonic daily calls, i still receive witheld number calls from them . . . and automated machine calls, requesting i call them to discuss the matter . . .

It seems they actually are beyond the law and we should all just jump off the nearest bridge rather than try to get away from their harrassment! As it will never stop - ever, ever, ever!!!

If anyone knows of anyone out there who cares enough, and who actually can make any difference in any way shape or form to this quite unacceptable relentless demoralising barracking, then for gods sake put me onto them also. Asap! (end of rant)

[Guest symbio-dek]

Me and CAGbot are going on a date this week, we've become quite close . . . i just send my posts straight to her now . . .

[The GodMother]

I dont have a landline/homephone only mobile. Far to expensive for me to call ppl on the home phone when we all have mobiles.

 

if anybody knows if i can get a recording device l have a W850i all help will be gratefully recieved. Thanks.

[steven4064]

symbio-dek

 

Do you have acopy of your credit agreement with Black Horse? Does it have PPI on it?

 

(BTW - I sent you a PM)

[Guest symbio-dek]

I've had no contact with anyone for 4 months, iv'e lost that much weight that i wont go out the door out of shame and embarrasment and have thrown all mirrors out, edited, iv'e no friends any more, family is 170 miles away and dont care enough for any one of about 50 of them to have picked the phone up in 4 months, and i couldnt afford an eggcup full of fuel to get there anyhow, i haven't seen my stolen son in 4 months, and would be too ashamed to if got the chance, cant ring him coz im too ashamed of state im in and my phones are off, and wouldn't know what to say to him anyhow . . . I'm at the end of my F****** tether, i'm now only fueled by hate, shame, anger and wraith . . . I don't think im gonna make it to my court case with evil, 'typical', (same old story) theiving ex in December.

I would have replied earlier steven but have been engaged in this weeks 2-hour total dambuster titanic collapse . . Yes, you got it, induced by someone actually giving a sh** who offered a little help on here . . So overwhelmed by it - I couldn't reply (irony!!)

Yes thats right ladies, another totally broken man - edited

 

Thanks, more than you will ever know, for the 'pm' offer steven, if you'd have sent that a month ago, i'd have been able to, and would have given you a massive stick to beat them with, but if i were able to go out the door, or show my face at my bank, i would be buying food . . .edited

And . . what's a ppi ??????????????????????????????

edited

 

Oh, and one last irony nugget for your collective delectation - on the day i get offer of help with black horse, they send me a letter (having made my life a edited misery for months) offering me a £5k loan . . . . . . . .

A kidney(AB+) for a nuke . . anyone, anyone, anyone..........?..................?.................................?

Edited November 28, 2008 by jonni2bad

[lunar jim]

I dont have a landline/homephone only mobile. Far to expensive for me to call ppl on the home phone when we all have mobiles.

 

if anybody knows if i can get a recording device l have a W850i all help will be gratefully recieved. Thanks.

 

On the K800i during a call you hit the right function key (more), scroll to the bottom and hit 'record'. The W850i is similar:

 

Sony Ericsson W850i Walkman Phone - Support Forum - eXpansys Inc

[steven4064]

I've just looked at my Nokia 6500s and discovered it will record calls too - press the left function key (un-named), scroll down and hit record.

 

(I should have read the manual before )

[zazen.warrior]

I seem to be getting the odd call from people who haven't called me in months at the mo, no probs, they still aren't expecting that 'No.'

 

One of them ranted for several minutes after I said it last night until he realised he wasn't going to get a single syllable more out of me and slunk away.

 

More irritating, I’ve had 4 silent calls from a withheld number this afternoon.

 

I suppose it has something to do with Christmas.

[The GodMother]

maybe maybe they think we have extra money or summing.