Old NatWest overdraft - advice?

[Monkhouse]

First post - be gentle!!

 

Looking for advice on the below. Please bear with me while I explain in the simplest way:

 

April 1999 - Debts mount up. Start DMP with the CCCS. One debt is overdraft of £1000 with NatWest. Walked away from account under advice from CCCS. Started regular monthly payments against the debt via the CCCS.

May 2002 - Strange letter from NatWest saying they'd just had to use tracing agents to find me. Wrote back saying CCCS should have informed them of any chages of my address, as all correspondance is thru them. Regardless, payments continue.

April 2003 - Full capital amount of £1000 now repaid to NatWest via the CCCS. Also, I stop dealing with the CCCS as most debts nearly finished (plus other complex issues) and continue paying other remaining creditors myself.

Feb 2006 - Letter received from Wescot. They're chasing a debt of £1300 for NatWest. Spoke to NatWest directly saying this debt was paid. They said this was the outstanding amount as they'd never stopped charging interest. Told them the CCCS agreed with them an interest freeze, They say they have no record of this. I asked them for full accounts to be sent since May 1999 when debt was transferred to their debt department as I wanted to see the figures. They said they would send them.

Feb 2006 (2) - 2 weeks pass, no accounts sent. I rang NatWest again. They said that they were working on it. They said that since they had a computer system merger back in about 2001, accounts prior to this might be hard to obtain. They said they might not be able to locate the accounts at all and I would I like to pay the £1300 anyway? Err, no.

May 2006 - More Wescot letters. Now I send them the CCA prove it letter. They eventually give in and hand back to client.

Oct 2006 - New demand from Fredrickson International for same alleged debt. Sent CCA prove-it letter. They hand back to NatWest.

Feb 2007 - Third DCA now get involved, Robinson Way. 3 or 4 letters to/fro these guys. Sent prove-it letter. They angered me by cashing the £1.00 documentation fee and taking it off outstanding balance. Wrote back demanding they refund £1.00 as no docs sent, and send letter stating I didn't make any payment to them.

May 2007 - Letters now arriving from NatWest re 'my complaint' (?). They send letter stating I didn't make any payment and apologise. They're 'looking into' my complaint (haven't made one!) and will be in touch.

June 2007 - NatWest now send account statements dating back to May 1999 (when debt was transferred to their dept), but only up to Oct 2002. Not true statements, just screen dumps. They show all my payments, and all their interest debits.

They say that they can't send a signed Credit Agreement copy as there wasn't one, and this is an overdraft so is not covered by the CCA 1974.

They say debt is now £1700. They will accept F+F of £1000. I've got 28 days to respond.

 

OK, so.......

 

First off, can they do this?

 

I orginally asked for detailed accounts in Feb 2006. It's taken them till this week to do this. Have they taken too long?

 

They say no Credit Agreement was ever signed. I can't remember one way or the other (account opened in 1994) and that debt isn't covered by the CCA 1974. Do they have a leg to stand on, therefore? If there is no credit agreement, can I just tell them to go away?

 

They tried setting 3 DCAs on me for this alleged debt. Can they now hassle me themselves?

 

I honestly thought that the CCCS had arranged interest freeze on this account, but NatWest claim they didn't. I have no evidence either way. As I did repay the capital in full and this apparent £1700 is purely interest + charges, have they got a hope of reclaiming this?

 

 

 

Sorry about the long post and all the questions, but I'm a bit stumped with this one now. I'm fairly savvy with this sort of thing (years of experience!) but this time, I'm not sure what to do.

 

Thanks in advance!

[rodos]

CCCS can only ask them to freeze charges ect the banks are not obliged as its in the terms and conditions, i am with cccs i got some charges back from NAT WEST they didnt freeze the account i paid them what i owed then closed the account.

[rodos]

CCCS can only ask them to freeze charges ect the banks are not obliged as its in the terms and conditions, i am with cccs i got some charges back from NAT WEST they didnt freeze the account i paid them what i owed then closed the account.

sorry i didnt see this

 

 

They say that they can't send a signed Credit Agreement copy as there wasn't one, and this is an overdraft so is not covered by the CCA 1974

how can they prove the debt is yours if u havent signed a cca???

[rodos]

First post - be gentle!!

 

Looking for advice on the below. Please bear with me while I explain in the simplest way:

 

April 1999 - Debts mount up. Start DMP with the CCCS. One debt is overdraft of £1000 with NatWest. Walked away from account under advice from CCCS. Started regular monthly payments against the debt via the CCCS.

May 2002 - Strange letter from NatWest saying they'd just had to use tracing agents to find me. Wrote back saying CCCS should have informed them of any chages of my address, as all correspondance is thru them. Regardless, payments continue.

April 2003 - Full capital amount of £1000 now repaid to NatWest via the CCCS. Also, I stop dealing with the CCCS as most debts nearly finished (plus other complex issues) and continue paying other remaining creditors myself.

Feb 2006 - Letter received from Wescot. They're chasing a debt of £1300 for NatWest. Spoke to NatWest directly saying this debt was paid. They said this was the outstanding amount as they'd never stopped charging interest. Told them the CCCS agreed with them an interest freeze, They say they have no record of this. I asked them for full accounts to be sent since May 1999 when debt was transferred to their debt department as I wanted to see the figures. They said they would send them.

Feb 2006 (2) - 2 weeks pass, no accounts sent. I rang NatWest again. They said that they were working on it. They said that since they had a computer system merger back in about 2001, accounts prior to this might be hard to obtain. They said they might not be able to locate the accounts at all and I would I like to pay the £1300 anyway? Err, no.

May 2006 - More Wescot letters. Now I send them the CCA prove it letter. They eventually give in and hand back to client.

Oct 2006 - New demand from Fredrickson International for same alleged debt. Sent CCA prove-it letter. They hand back to NatWest.

Feb 2007 - Third DCA now get involved, Robinson Way. 3 or 4 letters to/fro these guys. Sent prove-it letter. They angered me by cashing the £1.00 documentation fee and taking it off outstanding balance. Wrote back demanding they refund £1.00 as no docs sent, and send letter stating I didn't make any payment to them.

May 2007 - Letters now arriving from NatWest re 'my complaint' (?). They send letter stating I didn't make any payment and apologise. They're 'looking into' my complaint (haven't made one!) and will be in touch.

June 2007 - NatWest now send account statements dating back to May 1999 (when debt was transferred to their dept), but only up to Oct 2002. Not true statements, just screen dumps. They show all my payments, and all their interest debits.

They say that they can't send a signed Credit Agreement copy as there wasn't one, and this is an overdraft so is not covered by the CCA 1974.

They say debt is now £1700. They will accept F+F of £1000. I've got 28 days to respond.

 

OK, so.......

 

First off, can they do this?

 

I orginally asked for detailed accounts in Feb 2006. It's taken them till this week to do this. Have they taken too long?

 

They say no Credit Agreement was ever signed. I can't remember one way or the other (account opened in 1994) and that debt isn't covered by the CCA 1974. Do they have a leg to stand on, therefore? If there is no credit agreement, can I just tell them to go away?

 

They tried setting 3 DCAs on me for this alleged debt. Can they now hassle me themselves?

 

I honestly thought that the CCCS had arranged interest freeze on this account, but NatWest claim they didn't. I have no evidence either way. As I did repay the capital in full and this apparent £1700 is purely interest + charges, have they got a hope of reclaiming this?

 

 

 

Sorry about the long post and all the questions, but I'm a bit stumped with this one now. I'm fairly savvy with this sort of thing (years of experience!) but this time, I'm not sure what to do.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

go to NAT WEST FORUM http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/

[lookinforinfo]

They are quite right to say that because it was an overdraft, you would not have signed a loan agreement. However the account is still governed by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

If you sent them an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) plus £10, when you requested full details back in February 2006, they had forty days in which to respond-if you paid nothing, they don't have to send anything.

 

Interesting that they can send paperwork going further back than six years

when it suits them. Does it confirm that you paid off the £1000? Have they

defaulted you in the meantime? Have they added charges to the account as well as interest?

If you didn't send them an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, do so now. You want to see the copy

of the letter they sent when they set up your overdraft for a start. You also

want to see a copy of your original agreement when you first opened your current account with them.

You also want to know why it has taken them three years to write to you

about the debt as you think it is unfair to expect you to pay interest on a

debt that they never told you about. In addition,as it has taken another year for them to send you a detailed breakdown of how the debt was arrived

at, you think that charging interest then is inequitable too. Moreover you are

disputing the charges levied especially as you never knew that the debt existed. So thus you confirm that you dispute the debt.

Once you have sent off the letter including the points I mentioned, the account is in dispute, and until such time as the dispute is resolved, no action can be taken by NW or DCAs to enforce the debt.

 

Is there any way you can check with CCCS to confirm that NW did agree to

freeze interest, as I find it odd that CCCS would stop paying if they knew

that interest was still being charged.

[Monkhouse]

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

 

lookinforinfo, some answers:

 

Does it confirm that you paid off the £1000?

The screen dumps show all the credits made to the account that were paid by the CCCS. There's no running debt total as such, just pages of credits / debits shown. The only total shown is the original 'opening balance' (when the debt was transferred)

 

Have they defaulted you in the meantime?

The account shows on my credit record as being in default, but I'm not sure from when. Also, while they may have sent me a default notice, I have particular recollection of this. They may very well not have done.

 

Have they added charges to the account as well as interest?

The only debits shown on the statements are shown as 'Interest'. However, they only sent me 1999 - 2002 so far and have said they will forward the 2002- onwards details shortly. Read into that whatever you like! I don't know if the 2002- onwards accounts will show just more interest, or charges as well. Also don't quite understand why they can't supply the more recent accounts now, or how they can tell me I have 28 days if they haven't even finished sending me these details yet.

 

If you didn't send them an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request, do so now.

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) is copies of everything about me they hold, right? Does this have to include copies of all the agreements (ie when I opened the bank account in 1994) and so on?

 

 

Is there any way you can check with CCCS to confirm that NW did agree to freeze interest, as I find it odd that CCCS would stop paying if they knew that interest was still being charged.

Possibly. To be honest, I kinda fell out with CCCS just about the time the NW capital finished being repaid. I had some issues with the local office in Sussex that I had to deal with - there was an adviser who I thought was getting very unhelpful, and I began to lose patience with them, so we parted company. They DID stop paying NW for sure though when the repaid amount hit £1000 - I have a few CCCS statements which show this.

 

 

I'll look into the SAR straight away. I'm eager to nail this once and for all - I've fought off of a whole pack of DCAs they've thrown at me, and I ain't backing down now! And considering this is all just about the interest - jeez, this bank stinks.

[Sparkie1723]

A little snippet of info ......an unauthorised over draft i.e if the bank allows you to go overdrawn without having an agreed over draft does fall into sections 73(1((b) &74(3) and is a regulated agrement for unrestricted use, running account credit, and is a debtor creditor agreement. It is also a multilpe agreement part of which (ie the part not dealing with the overdraft) falls within a category of agreement not mentioned in the act.

 

This info is taken from examples in the Consumer Credit Act.

 

sparkie

[lemma1968]

What happens if they converted that overdraft to a loan with an agreed repayment scheme - would they then need to come up with a CCA confirming that or can they say that its an overdraft so falls out of the CCA s77-79? This is what happened with me.

[Sparkie1723]

No .....if they convert the O/D to a loan then it must be a CCA agreement WITH signatures, if you have got proof of the regular payments they cannot now say its an O/Draft.

 

sparkie