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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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If the system won't stop the BANKS...


Guest ConsumersRevenge
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Guest ConsumersRevenge

I think we should. Or at least try. I see that one of the template letters gives a threat questioning the Banks (or in this case Credit Card Company's) ability to conform to the licesnce to carry on a financial business. I propose that we all register formal complaints against one of the worst offenders (perhaps Barclaycard) and question thier ability to carry out thier duties, and see if we can get a license revoked. I am sick and tired of these companies going about thier business in the way that they have. In addition, I cannot accept the way customers are treated. They will tell you when you get a card or credit, This is a Privilige, not a right. Well, I say customers are a privilige too. I also think thier arrogance is not on.

 

So who's with me?

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Well you are with yourself 3 times so thats a good start. :p

 

Seriously, I'm sure that everyone here is with you. People are trying every angle they can think of to get something done or some kind of legal precedent set. I dare say that a few solicitors or litigation team working for an FI may even already know of a way that they can forced to task & are working hard to cover every base.

 

I do believe it is only a matter of time before someone finally finds a way.

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

Thanks for the reply. Apologies to you (and all readers) for the repetitive post. Whilst I am enthusiastic about making things better for the UK consumer, this posting was in error (I am not particularly up on the internet or computers!)

 

I know you can apply to have the contract terms rewritten, although I am thinking about going a step further. My analogy, if i drive my car at 100MPH in a 30 zone, I am breaking the terms of UK law and my license. if a bank or CC firm are charging illegal penalty, lets see if we can get points on thier license. If nothing else, I just want to make these people start paying attention to thier customers. I have worked with companies that operate in partnership with banks, and I am SICK TO DEATH of the arrogance of these companies. For example, do you know, barclaycard (amusing called [email protected] on this site) DO NOT SECURE YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION if they send to third parties? Shocked? Don't be - THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THIER CUSTOMERS. Lets show them. Damn it, I am wound up and ready to pop.

 

Sorry, but again thanks for the reply :)

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Complian to the OFT under Debt Collection Guidance (elsewhere in the CAG)

Contact [email protected]. Direct 'phone number 020 7211 8765 Fax 020 7211 8877

 

I complained about a DCA, a bank & credit card company, regarding 0870 'phone numbers. My letter received at the OFT 15.6.07, I received my answer today ! The reply is two pages long, but these extracts may offer hope. ' We investigate all complaints received about consumer credit licence holders and, where we have the necessary evidence, we do take appropriate action'. 'It is unlikely that a licence would be revoked on the strength of one complaint' . Where we have strong evidence that unfair business practices have occured, we may take steps to revoke or refuse the licence of the business in question'

 

Get a complaint form, fill it in, enclose copies of the letters, send it back Freepost.

 

I did it, so can you, as the man says he needs more than one complaint !

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

I need a lot of people backing me, to prove that banks are taking the P**s out of the system. I am trying to get as many people as I can, lets make an example of one of these companies.

 

To be clear, my target are Banks and Credit Card firms, not primarily DCA's. I used this point to illustrate, if people think I am a nasty horrible evil man for wanting to victimise a bank, exactly how thery treat your data, and your identity (yes, they will refund money taken fraudulently, but does this help you at 11pm, when you fill your car up with fuel and can't pay because your account has been, well, unlike your fuel tank, emptied?) Banks are laughing at thier customers, they treat people with contempt and this is what I am trying to get across. Sorry for ranting!

 

DCA's are second, and I laugh at them (they seem to think they have more rights than the banks - amusing!) I used to work for one.

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Alright then, first the Banks then the CC co's then DCA's, or all three at the same time, I did, the OFT don't care in which order, complain to them. See the OFT Debt collection guidance download from elsewhere on this site or the OFT site.

I got the distinct feeling they want to know!

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

I know it would probably never come to it, but I really think all this claiming is great, but they are still getting away with thier unlawful charging. Lets show them they can't do it. Come on, gather your friends, and join my rebellion. WE ARE CONSUMERS. Lets make a stand. Get as many people together to complain. Message me and I will put names down, then start making formal complaints. COME ON PEOPLE

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Here's an online petition to the government to cap bank charges!

 

Maybe encouraging people to sign it is a start!?

 

To be honest I think it is a good thing for the govenment to be backing (whether they will or not is another matter) as it will hopefully encourage people to manage their money better and also thanks to CAG and MSE people are becomming more empowered to fight back and hopefully reduce the average national debt (caused largely to the individual by the banks).

 

Petition to: Pass a Law on Unfair Bank Charges.

Yode

 

Yode v Egg - smashed after 4 weeks

Yode v NatWest battle to the end (mcols issued) waiting retaliation

 

 

Sign the petition to the Prime Minister here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/bankcourts/

Thanks

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There's no point in a cap - they are only allowed to charge their actual loss, and if it's not their actual loss, then it's irrecoverable in its entirety. The above petition is pointless, and misses the point completely.

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Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

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Maybe I have missed the point.

 

Please enlighten me as I am fairly new to all of this.

 

Just to clarify my understanding (which may completely miss your point), the banks are currently allowed to take 'fees' for different 'services' of up to £150 from a persons account. The point is to reduce this to what it actually costs the bank - say £2.50? If the current charges are irrecoverable in their entirety then why are the banks paying up?

 

Like I said, I am open to new information.

Yode

 

Yode v Egg - smashed after 4 weeks

Yode v NatWest battle to the end (mcols issued) waiting retaliation

 

 

Sign the petition to the Prime Minister here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/bankcourts/

Thanks

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

My aim is to get over 2000 people (or as many as possible) and target 1 of the institutions, perhaps barclaycard or hsbc (as they seem to be the worst offenders from another site i run) and approach the OFT / FSA and advise that all of the people on the list will file a complaint, stating the organisation is unfit to hold a consumer credit license and it should be revoked. Yes, I know it probably won't get that far, but a shot at least. Even if we scare one away from thier pathetic arrogant stance it will be a consumer victory. Please back me people

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Interestingly, when we applied to the Ministry of Justice to be an authorised CMC they sent us a big book from the OFT giving guidance on unfair contract terms. It would seem to me that the banks T's&C's should be submitted to the OFT and see if they find them fair.

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

So are you all with me? I am deadly serious is my quest to attack these organisations.

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Maybe I have taken this from a different angle, but,I have stood up and have been counted! The OFT have my details, and details of those that I am complaining about.

As stated elsewhere, get a copy of Debt collection guidance. Final guidance on unfair business practices. July 2003 (updated December 2006). There is plenty of ammo there.

Reading through the site everyone has a complaint, for example premium rate 'phone numbers, you know the one, contact us on 0870, and pressuring debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large installments etc, etc,.

Get a complaint pack from the OFT, send it back with copies of the evidence.

I quote again from the OFT letter to me 'We are always interested to receive complaints such as yours as they are a vital source of information in helping us to investigate the behaviour of traders that hold consumer credit licences' & 'Non-compliance with this guidance will call into question the fitness of licence holders and applicants' Cor! think about it, Banks, CCC's and DCA's without a credit licence!

I'm with you CR but I am doing my bit.

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

Thank you, the only reason for gathering names was to give one big hit. but thank you, i still see you as a support, and therefore a friend of both myself and the consumer! thank you. and if anyone is thinking of joining me, thank you too for your consideration.

 

As for phone numbers, SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers (moderators, please leave this link in). I will call in some favours if anyone has particular requests, and try and get hold of numbers not listed on here (then we will get them listed!)

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I might not have made it clear, the 'phone numbers, 0870 and other premium rate lines, and the pressure to pay more than you are, are against OFT debt collection guidance. They, the Banks, CCC's etc, will be taken to task by the OFT, but only if they know, so complain to the OFT singularly or en masse

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Guest ConsumersRevenge

Viano - ok, we can support each other. i will lodge complaints against non-geographical numbers used by banks and ccc's

 

I will compile a list, later on today / first thing. then you can help me, lets make things better for the consumer. we pay for thier services (even without charges and under supposed 'free' banking) lets make them work for it

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Maybe I have missed the point.

 

Please enlighten me as I am fairly new to all of this.

 

Just to clarify my understanding (which may completely miss your point), the banks are currently allowed to take 'fees' for different 'services' of up to £150 from a persons account. The point is to reduce this to what it actually costs the bank - say £2.50? If the current charges are irrecoverable in their entirety then why are the banks paying up?

 

Like I said, I am open to new information.

 

The FAQs for reclaiming acutally cover this in some detail. To summarise, the banks are not 'allowed' to take 'fees' for 'services' - they charge penalties for breaches of their Terms and Conditions, such as unauthorised borrowing or not having enough funds to honour a Direct Debit. Referring to them as 'fees' is just an attempt known in law as 'cloaking the penalty', or saying that it's one thing when it's really another. Penalties for breach of contract are unlawful according to English common law - the case studies in the reclaiming section set precedents by which future judges had, and have, to abide by. The other party is only allowed to charge the actual loss incurred by the breach, and if they try and charge more, it is a penalty, and by making it a penalty, which is unlawful, they forfeit their right to charge the actual loss as well (that's what I meant above by irrecoverable in its' entirety, sorry if I didn't explain it well enough). That's why claimants are receiving their full amounts back, and not the full amounts minus [50p] x [however many charges were imposed]. The processes for allowing/denying DDs, honouring/bouncing cheques, etc. are entirely automated within banks - that's why the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) template asks for details of 'manual intervention', or any occurences of a real live human being conducting these processes, because if manual intervention occurred, then the actual cost would be slightly higher than computerised intervention. However, even with manual intervention, the actual cost incurred by the banks for breach of contract is nowhere near £20-40 for intervening when a breach occurs, and therefore the amount is irrecoverable in its' entirety (for them, not us).

 

All this debate would be solved by the banks actually admitting precisely how much, with proof, it costs them to administer to an account in breach, but... :rolleyes:

 

As I said, the FAQs cover this pretty well, this was just a summary. Welcome to CAG :)

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Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

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