Ony vs CL Finance (DCA for GE Money)

[ony]

This is a bit of a mixed bag:

 

1. GE Money provided me with incomplete statements. A 2nd request for complete statments has been unanswered. Compliance was expected in 7 days before court action. This expired on 27.5.07
   
2. CCA request sent 20.5.07 defaulted 4.6.07 (12+2)
   
3. CL Finance applied a default notice 1.6.07

My letter to CL Finance reads:

 

I am writing to clarify that to you that this account is clearly under dispute and as such your Default Notice dated the 1st June is unlawful.

These are the related facts:

• My SAR-Subject Access Request to GE Money was dated the 5th February 2007.
  
• Incomplete statements were provided.
  
• A further request for full statements dated 20.5.07.
  
  
• A request was made to G.E Money for my original credit agreement in a letter sent by recorded delivery on the 20th May 2007. This is clearly before your duly applied Default Notice advised to me in your letter 1st June 2007.
  
• You are of course aware that a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.
  
• My CCA request places this account under dispute. As such whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable. Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (31st May 2007).
  
• Requesting payments is an offence. Please do not request any further monies.
  
• I have ordered my Credit File (via Experian) and should I find that any negative information has been applied to my account by either CL Finance or GE Money I will expect it to be promptly removed. Again, this is not permitted whilst the CCA request is not satisfied. It is an offence.
  
• Your Default Notice is therefore applied unlawfully and I would ask that your remove it immediately.
  
• If you fail to confirm to me your intention to remove the Default Notice within 7 days I will be forced to take legal action against you under the Data Protection Act 1998. I will also ask the courts for costs arising from the distress, inconvenience and damages incurred as a result of your actions.
  
• I would also note on a matter of compliance that in your letter dated 20.4.2007 you provided an unsigned Notice of Assignment. This is insufficient to my requirements. I would refer you to the terms laid out in my letter of the 24.5.07 where it clearly states; “Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974”.

I hope this makes my position clear.

 

Yours sincerely,

[clutchingatstraws]

Subscribing

[nevos]

Hi, Can I ask who owns the debt is it GE or CL or are CL just trying to collect on behalf of GE?

[ony]

CL I believe.

 

I have a notice of assignment (a photocopy/unsigned) appended to the bottom of a letter dated 20/4/07 in whic CL assert that GE has assigned to them as permitted under the T&C's of credit agreement with GE.

 

Notice reads: ".......assigned to CL Finance absolutely a debt in the sum of XXXX and owing by you to them for the balance due under Account reference XXXXXXXXXXXX"

 

As mentioned it is unsigned and in my CCA request I have asked for the original signed deed of assignment.

[nevos]

Hi, I have one with CL who managed to get a CCJ, I asked them for the deed of assignment and they sent 2 pages of 18 pages and attached my signature from the original agreement not with them. Now they say they will go for an attachment of earnings, they need to apply to the court for this but, I'm sure they have nothing firm to rely on.

[ony]

Thats outrageous..given those circumstances (and being a novice with all this) but I would think they wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

 

I would like to read the details of your case, wheres your thread?

[ony]

Well I have just received my original agreement from CL Finance. It looks kosher apart from the doodling here and there. But still waiting for the deed of assignment or sum such.

 

Will just have to nail them with SARS and get some cash deducted from the balance. Either way this isn't over yet.....

[nevos]

Is that an agreement between you and CL or GE?

[ony]

Nevos,

 

May I first say thank you for paying attention.

 

 

I of course requested the original credit agreement and what I have is a photocopy of fax of what appears to be the original. Is a sufficient??

 

Also it is only two pages of the Agreement and it is between myself and First Personal bank Plc. Something is a little odd: There is doodling around the address are containing the following;

 

FraserCard Customer services

The First Personal Bank Plc

..............

 

And then the doodling drops down and completely blackens out a text block at the bottom of the page. Its as if the entire doodle is designed to unintentional when on closer inspection the opposite is true.

 

Atypically my scanner is on the fritz so I can attach an image file but will see if I can manage it. All rather strange and convenient!! Is this a blantant attempt to hide something, or am I being overly cynical.

[ony]

OK...got it working. her's the scan. All a bit wierd!

[ony]

CL finance have returned with my original agreement though it is somewhat mangled and has been scratched and written over. They have also initiated proceedings.

“the claimants claim for the sum of XXX being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the defendant and the GE Capital Bank Ltd under ref XXXXX and assigned to the Claimant on the 19th April 2007 notice of which has been given to the defendant.

The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I asked for my credit agreement which as I have mentioned I received. The question is how does one assess whether the agreement presented is sufficient to their purposes as there are several scrawlings and scratchings on the form.They alsofailed to provide a deed of assignment.

I made SAR request 9th February 2007 and incomplete statements were provided. Further requests were unanswered. I applied for my original credit agreement on in my CCA request dated 20th May 2007 which was prior to their Default Notice as applied by CL Finance. The account was under dispute and I asked them to remove the Default notice which they failed to do.

Unfortunately had a few domestic issue and moving so lost sight of this and they have beaten me to the punch. Shall I counter sue identifying reasons that they have applied an improperly dated Default Notice and failed to remove it on request, GE Money failed to satisfy my SAR request and as account remains in dispute, given they have failed in their duty to provide all statements.

Is this the way to go any advice much appreciated and the proper content for the POC would be great.

[ony]

BUMP: Any advice much appreciated as I hve to submit defence by 29th September.

[nevos]

Hi, IMO: you need to defend on the grounds of the consumer credit laws, i.e. they C.L. Finance do not have a signed credit agreement between you and themselves. More or less as you have worded your letter in post 1.

 

You are of course aware that a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Also keep reading on CAG I'm sure you can find enough info to issue a defence, this will at least hopefully slow things down.

 

You could also build into your defence the fact that they have failed to supply relevant documents, put this in chronological order.

[nevos]

this thread may help baconbuttyman

[ony]

Hi, IMO: you need to defend on the grounds of the consumer credit laws, i.e. they C.L. Finance do not have a signed credit agreement between you and themselves. More or less as you have worded your letter in post 1.

 

Also keep reading on CAG I'm sure you can find enough info to issue a defence, this will at least hopefully slow things down.

 

You could also build into your defence the fact that they have failed to supply relevant documents, put this in chronological order.

 

 

is it imperative I use legal jargon or can I submit a defense at this stage in laymans terminology and take the time to swot up?

[taurus66]

Hi

You may find these two threads useful

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/73679-illegal-ccj-account-desperate.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/88250-deed-assignment-query-cl.html

[nevos]

Hi, you best look serious about your defence and lay it out something like this:-

 

CLAIM NR: xxxxxx

 

IN THE xxxxxx COUNTY COURT

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

CL Finance

-and-

oni

 

DEFENCE

1 The defendant joins issue with the claimant’s claim.

2This defence is served and filed without prejudice to the defendant’s contention that the particulars of claim disclose no reasonable cause for action.

 

List here your reasons for defending ie.

 

1 xxxxxxxxxxx

1.1

1.2 etc

 

 

 

Signed,

dated.

 

 

 

 

The more detail the better IMO remember to send a copy to the court and one to CL..