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Parked in a disabled bay(accidentally) - but is it a bay?


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Hi Everyone,

 

I parked in a disabled by completely by accident. I drove past it, then reversed in to it and didn't see any sign in front or on the ground until I come back to find the traffic warden photographing my car.(there was no sign other than on the ground)

He told me to appeal it because there was no sign above the bay, but he hadn't been told not to issue tickets so he had to issue one!

I have taken photos of the disabled bay. It doesn't have complete lines, in fact it looks like a disabled sign is painted in the middle of the car park on its own...

(how do I attached picture?)

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have you ever parked there before? is it in your local area?

personally i dont believe you.

and i dont think there being or not being a sign matters

its a privately run car park, not council.

 

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If you couldn't see that when you drove past before reversing in, then it was either very dark or you ought to see an optician!

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I'm completely amazed that people actually don't believe me.

 

A car was coming out of the car park to the right of me. I drove over the gutter/ grate as shown on the picture. I then noticed the space behind me and to my left. I reversed in to it. How can I see the disabled sign?

I have a 2 year old child and wish traffic wardens would book people for parking in parents and child spaces without a child. I have nothing against traffic wardens whatsoever.

My issue is the bay wasn't marked clearly in fact the whole car park doesn't have any clear bays marked. I did not park there on purpose, there were other spaces in the car park and it was a genuine mistake.

 

This is a council run car park which has parkwise to 'police' it. I have only parked there a couple of times before but it is local to me.

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I have a 2 year old child and wish traffic wardens would book people for parking in parents and child spaces without a child.

 

The simple reason that this is not possible is that such spaces have no legal basis whatsoever.

 

They are a marketing ploy by the supermarket/landowner concerned.

 

If this is a council car park 'policed' by Parkwise, then no traffic warden is involved. Your ticket came from a parking attendant (they have different powers from a TW).

 

You need to scan your ticket, remove personal details and post it on here - then we can see if it has any faults.

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I will scan it in later but it says it is 1991 act, no 87 parking in disabled bay without permit.

 

What I really want to know is - because the bay wasn't marked correctly is it still classed as a disabled bay? Is there something that needs to be there to classify it as a disabled bay? Extra sign etc. I genuinely didn't see the marking on the ground because I reversed in as previously stated.

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Can I just clarify a point here. Did you park in the space with the very large disabled marking on it? If you did then you have no excuse or defence whatsoever, irrespective of who it is run by.

 

On what legal grounds is there no defence?

 

Never mind the moral outrage because of somebody apparently able-bodied parking in a "disabled" bay; what legal grounds?

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Firstly, as I am sure you know, moral gounds do not come into it. This is about enforecemnt of regulations relating to a parking bay that is specifically labelled as for use by disabled drivers (i.e. those who have a bonafide disabled parking badge). Just saying "I did not see it" is hardly a defence or accepable under "my moral code".

 

My view is the opposite of your since I know a disabled driver and sometimes they cannot park since some selfish individual who has no disabilities has parked in a disabled bay. I think there should be more enforecement of disabled bays and much, much havier fines for those who flout this.

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Firstly, as I am sure you know, moral gounds do not come into it. This is about enforecemnt of regulations relating to a parking bay that is specifically labelled as for use by disabled drivers (i.e. those who have a bonafide disabled parking badge). Just saying "I did not see it" is hardly a defence or accepable under "my moral code".

 

 

You mention the specifically labelled parking bay, which if you have read what I described, I could not have seen. It was not 'clearly' defined as being a disabled bay. I will be taking the issue up with my local councillors to make sure the carpark is clearly maked so it doesn't happen to anyone else.

I can imagine how it is easy for the unintelligent to make assumptions about another persons morality in forums because this doesn't come across in a few lines of text. I would never park in a disabled bay and don't know anybody who would who didn't need to. If you don't have anything useful to say monty go back to talking about the credit cards bills that you haven't been paying.

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Firstly, as I am sure you know, moral gounds do not come into it. This is about enforecemnt of regulations relating to a parking bay that is specifically labelled as for use by disabled drivers (i.e. those who have a bonafide disabled parking badge). Just saying "I did not see it" is hardly a defence or accepable under "my moral code".

 

My view is the opposite of your since I know a disabled driver and sometimes they cannot park since some selfish individual who has no disabilities has parked in a disabled bay. I think there should be more enforecement of disabled bays and much, much havier fines for those who flout this.

 

That hardly seems constructive and you also contradict yourself. You say that "moral grounds do not come into it" then say that you are all for harsher enforcement on the basis that you have a disabled friend who sometimes cannot park.

 

Ignore the fact that this is a 'disabled' bay and ask whether if it were a matter of a CPZ with double yellow lines which were inadequately painted, or another restriction where signage was not lawful then would you be more prepared to be constructive rather than merely post in order to slate the OP?

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I am not sure where you see the contradiction?? This person has clearly parked in a disabled bay, abeit she did not see the sign - though this seems clear enough to me.

 

My other point, which you believe is contradictory, relates to bonafide DISABLED people who find that the limited number of disabled spaces available are quite often taken by people who can't be bothered to comply.

 

I am sure she is telling the truth, but I just cannot see that she has any recourse given the photos. Sorry not to be constructive but I live in the real world and I am giving my view as I see fit.

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Ouch, for your information I have actually PAID my credit cards bills. The problems I had (past) were due to redundancy (i.e. no fault of my own).

 

Try to grow up and get your facts right in future.

 

I expect you are just looking for sympathy....

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I expect you are just looking for sympathy....

 

No, I'm looking for someone to tell me if I have a case with an adjudicator because the signs and markings are not correctly maintained.

It does look like quite a big obvious disabled sign now, but if you are infront of it, driving a car, you can't see it. When I got out of my car, I could see no other sign (I don't know if these needs to be by law) in front of the bay. Also the bay had no lines as shown on the pictures (I don't know if there needs to by law).

Any advice is very much appreciated.

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No Lines,

 

When reversing into that space, I doubt anyone could see it. It certainly is not clear at all.

I will not jump on the moral high ground here, The signage is simply not clear enough neither for the disabled bay nor infact anywhere else in the carpark. I would certainly be P'd off if I received a ticket for this.

Normally disabled bays are clear and larger to allow the infirm to easily park. This one isn't. It is also badly maintained.

In my limited knowledsge, I would think you have cause for appeal.

 

Perhaps someone who knows the legalities will help you further and not be judge, jury and executioner.

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I have to agree with both the OP and patdavies completely. This is clearly a council car park and the lines/signage (which are one and the same in law) are badly neglected. It is the councils absolute legal obligation to ensure the "legal upkeep" of such road markings under both the Road Traffic Act 1991 and The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002. This is the law, it's absolute and not open to any interpretation by anyone, it's totally non-negotiable.

 

Regardless of the arguement that any reasonable person could see that there is a restriction by means of the existing signage, the signage in place does not conform in any way to the strict regulations mentioned above that both a council and a motorist must obey.

 

I realise I won't be popular with our disabled members now, but if I could just point out to the "moral crew" that parking problems in cases such as this are down to the council in question, and if you see signage/lines like the ones posted above and you have concerns for, or if indeed you are a disabled driver, you should report them to the council in question, as bays as shown in the pictures above have absolutely no legal standing.

 

For the record though... Anyone getting a ticket for parking in a correctly painted & signed disabled bay, not only deserves the ticket but needs flogging on their hometown Town Hall steps...! nono.gif

 

Edit: I'm adding this as a multi-drop truck driver who delivers to the Manchester City Council depot responsible for both road line painting and the enforcing of parking control tickets in Manchester!

 

As far as line painting goes, they don't even have tape measures. They are simply blobbed on the road!

 

As far as the PA's are concerned, if it isn't moving put a ticket on it. There's a small area around Thomas Street and Back Turner Street just behind the Manchester Arndale Centre where one of the big bosses from Mcr City Council lives (in one of the newly built mega expensive town houses opposite Al-Faisal curry shop), there are always at least 4 PA's there on what amounts to about 14 streets putting tickets on anything that stops for more than 5 minutes because this boss wants a quiet life which doesn't include delivery vehicles stopped in loading bays for legitimate reasons!

 

Appeals, simple.... Reject it. They'll pay it. Tell eveyone it's about road safety. Truth is, if it's stopped, it's £30 that belongs to the council really.

 

This is how these people think, that's the stark truth of the matter, I deliver there, I talk to these people. Their contempt is complete and utter.

 

action-smiley-073.gif

 

Regards to all, Dave.

 

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