DVLA and SORN

[Runk]

Hello all.

Due to lack of funds I could afford to keep my car on the road this year, so at the end of Jan when the tax ran out I SORN'd it.

I got the blue V890 form from a main post office nearby and they told me to take it home, fill it in and post it to the address on the form, which I did.

Its parked off road on a private drive and the only time its moved since then was when I backed it off the drive a few weeks ago so that I could mow my lawn where it was growing up round the front wheels.

 

At the start of April the DVLA wrote to me and informed me that I had not SORN'd the vehicle, and they were fining me £80.

I spent about an hour phoning round different offices that I got numbers for, but they flatly refused to take any phone calls on the matter forcing me to write.

 

So on the 25th of April I filled in the second V890 they sent me, and posted it off with a letter stating that I wasnt prepared to pay a fine for thier mistake, and while I could not prove that I sent off the original form, i could get statements from all my neighbours, including a serving police officer to the effect that the car had been off road and not in use for this time.

 

Today, the 14th of June, I recieved a short curt 6 line letter from them that has completely ignored both the the second form and the letter that I sent, which simply states that :

 

A payment of £80 penalty was requested for failing to relicence the vehicle and it is now thier intention to recover this money through the court.

I can avoid court action by sending the payment in the enclosed envelope by return. But there isnt a return envelope enclosed either.

 

Im not sure what my next step should be?

They are clearly not open to any lines of communication, either by letter or telephone, so any advice would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks.

[dave]

I had exactly the same thing happen - twice!

 

I had the fine in the post - mine were 25 quid though, not 80. I ignored them simply because the fine was for not informing them that the car was SORN'ed - when I had done so.

 

A few weeks later I get a court summons - which I would have attended, but was due to start work for a new company on the same day; it just didn't seem right to ask for the first day off as annual leave so that I could attend court, so I wrote to the court and pleaded guilty (as the summons was for not replying to their 25 quid fine - NOT the non-sorn thing (which I had done, but they claimed I hadn't) and included a letter explaining why I was guilty - ie. I did sorn the car, yet was fined for not doing so, hence I ignored it.

 

I was fined 525 quid in my absense! I wrote to my MP and complained about it he wrote to the court, apparently didn't receive my letter. He wrote to the DVLA, apparently they didn't receive my letter (or SORN declaration).

 

The post office must be really bad.

 

In the end, the court 'waived' the fines.

 

....but this still implied that I was guilty and threatened to take them to court - I then got a four page apology (which actually was four pages stopping just shy of calling me a liar) from them, and a cheque for 10 quid compensation.

 

Bear in mind, I refused to pay the fine from the court (Why should I - I had done nothing wrong!), and so was arrested twice - once while I was at work.

 

10 quid, just doesn't cut it.

 

Write to your MP - if he's any good (and mine was/is a very good constituent MP despite his political leanings), then this is the very thing he should be sorting out for you.

[Runk]

Thanks for the reply Dave.

 

Ive managed to speak to someone on the phone today, who wasnt willing to discuss anything with me at first, but then did concede that they had updated thier records just last week to show they had recieved my letter.

She couldnt tell me why it had taken thier system do long to update.

 

She also told me that the fact that I cold prove my car was off the road was not the issue and didnt make any difference as no one was disputing wether the car has been in use or not.

If I didnt pay, I was going to be taken to court for failing to register my car either SORN or by taxing it, and it was up to me to ensure that they had updated thier records after I declared it SORN, and as I hadnt done that by chasing them up because I didnt recieve any notification it was therefore me that is at fault, not them.

 

After that she wasnt prepared to talk to me any further other than to tell me that if I wasnt happy with any information that I had, then I should write again and then she cut the line on me.

 

Im really getting very stressed over this now.

I havent done anything wrong, yet Im being taken to court and treated like a criminal for something that isnt my fault.

[dave]

Write to your MP.

 

How are you supposed to know that you receive notification of a car being SORN'ed?

 

I sorned 2 cars (only ever 2) and never received anything.

 

There is nothing on the form to let you know that this would be the case.

 

So therefore, you are being taken to court for not being psychic?

[buzby]

I'm in the middle of this right now - and the situation is similar. Carr off the road (and in a garage) awaiting good weather (1st June) exactly 3 months since the last disc expired. I had received the re-licencing form and took it to the PO, where a queue like an execution awaited. I went to the stationery kiosk and bought a PO Stamped DL envelope, put in the form and posted it.

 

In mid May I receive a letter from the Continuous Registration department informing of the £80 fine (£40 if I pay within 21 days or so). I replied that the SORN was completed and returned to them on 27th Feb, and did not accept their assertion they had not been advised (I've SORNED vehicles since 2004, so I know what I have to do).

 

Their response was that I should have known something was wrong when I did not receive an acknowledgement of SORN within 4 weeks, so it was up to me to enquire before any penalty notice was issued. Since they do not suggest I send mail by Recorded Delivery, I cannot prove it was posted, but as the courts are quite happy to accept that the Royal Mail will deliver a letter 2 days after posting, I think the same should hold true for them. Since they are making me jump through hoops, I think it falls on them to advise they have not received a SORN, rather than me ask them if they got what I sent.

 

A further letter of appeal went in, and the deadline for paying £40 expires today. I called the Poole office to say after 2 weeks and I had not received a reply, where they going to suggest I hadn't appealed their fine? The girl said they are taking TWO WEEKS to get through correspondence. As to my concern about the increase to £80, would this follow automatically or would the lower charge remain whilst the appeal was being dealt with. She says it stays at £40, whilst the outcome of my appeal is being determined.

 

My plan is to await their response. If successful, that'll be an end to the matter. If they reject my appeal, I will pay the outstanding £40, and with the amount saved from the £80 top rate, use this to raise a Small Claims action against the DVLA, due to unfairness inherent in the system. I'll be suing for the original fine, plus the court costs.

 

I'll let you know what happens.

[dave]

I'd like to know which proportion of that fine goes to Capita. I think it's in their best interests for people not to SORN their cars and thus they get a % of the fine - hence the apparent rise in their 'losing' SORN forms.

 

I hear of nothing but moans about this in my local, on this site, on other sites, in the local news - way in excess of the amount of letters that would conceivably be lost in the post.

 

It's con, and a con that is not only endorsed by our govt. - it's actually encouraged - how the hell can a private firm with Capita's track record (or any for that matter) be in charge of something so integral to the country?

 

It's a sick con.

 

Personally, the DVLA is my pet hate. I'm not even sure if it's their business if my private property is held on my own private property - I don't ask them if they keep a dog or a hose pipe at home do I?

 

I emailed them once about a car of mine that caught fire and was subsiquently scrapped - I asked if I was supposed to receive some sort of notification - they said yes. I told them I hadn't got anything. They asked for the reg number - which I couldn't give them, as my house had caught fire a couple of weeks before and the subsiquent burst water pipes had ruined all my paperwork. I told them that the car was registered to my address - which I gave them.

 

They refused to do anything about it - so I told them that if you try to fine me for not informing you, then I would go in guns blazing.

 

I never heard another thing.

[patdavies]

Without wanting to mitigate the incompetence of the DVLA, you can actually register SORN on-line; and do a vehicle check to ensure that it is registered as SORN

[Guest ArthurP]

Without wanting to mitigate the incompetence of the DVLA, you can actually register SORN on-line; and do a vehicle check to ensure that it is registered as SORN

 

I just did mine on-line and I received a confirmation e-mail and will get a letter in 4 weeks time.

[dave]

Don't you need the V5 form to do that?

[patdavies]

Don't you need the V5 form to do that?

 

Or the form to re-tax (V11)

[Guest ArthurP]

Yes, you need to be sent the V11 and just input the reference number with it online and it's all done in a tick. You are e-mailed back straight away so there is proof you did it.

[buzby]

Update on my 'appeal' to DVLA. 2.5 weeks have gone by without any reply or response to my intimation that as I'd sent my SORN by post, I'm not accepting responsibility for their inability to process it.

 

Interesting in a way, especially if down the line they tell me that they didn't receive my Appeal, along with the original SORN - now how much of a coincidence would that be?

 

I'll call Crapita tomorrow (they apparently run the Poole 'Continuous Registration' department for the DVLA), and see what's cookin'.

[dave]

Any news?

[buzby]

Sorry Dave, I'd moved it to its own thread, here; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/99888-continuous-registration-fine-cancelled.html

[dave]

Good result.

[buzby]

Yep - although I was looking forward to taking it to court. Interestingly on the DVLA site there are documents relating to all the FoI requests and their results, plus disputes registered with the Information Commissioner.

 

Of particular note was that there was a request for full details on the number of SORN fines levied, along with the number of successful appeals, along with their reasons for cancellation. DVLA provided the basic figures, but refused to give the numbers of cancelled fines, or the reasons for such cancellation. The ICO was brought in after the refusal, but took the DVLA site stating that to provide the numbers of cancelled fines would undermine their ability to collect, as would providing details of which appeals were successful - as this would provide a template for successful cancellation. At least we know one of them!

[dave]

Ooooh, but if they were successful, surely it means that the fine was levied incorrectly, and thus legally we are entitled to know.

 

If there is a template, then so be it. That's keeping a secret just so the people who don't know it will just pay up.

 

How can that have been enforced by the IC?

[calm1]

I had exactly same prob this year. I have been sorning my lovely old car for 3 years now, sorned again Jan, received letter saying I hadn't. Wrote off got a sod off and pay up one. Couldn't be bothered to fight at the time - too many battles going on - moneyclaim, etc. Anyway, they wouldn't get away with it now!! Well done Buzby for seeing it through.

[buzby]

Ah - but there is a difference in fighting a successful application of a fine, and providing a useful compendium of excuses anyone could use that would be accepted by the DVLA as a legitimate reason for cancellation. (Even I can see that one!) The Registrar in his Decision Notice also agreed that disclosure would not be in the public interest. (So anyone that thinks the Information Commissioners Office is their exclusively looking out for our interests, is in for a shock!).

[mab53]

If you have a personalised registration, BEWARE OF SORN.

 

If you declare SORN on a vehicle for more than 12 months, you will NOT be able to transfer the personalised registration to another vehicle unless you retax it. If it does not have an MoT and is only fit for scrap, the registration will die with the vehicle.

[buzby]

Well, to transfer any VRM the conditions are clear - the donating vehicle must be Taxed and have a current MoT, and may be called for an inspection so insurance may also be reqired, therefore you are right, A SORN won't do - but it never has.

 

The secret is to arrange for the transfer BEFORE the vehicle goes off-road. This will allow the owner to place the VRM on retention (a certificate-based transfer facility) and the and the eventual disposition of the donor vehicle isn't a problem.

[LauraSHK]

I have had the same problem. I can't believe this thread was staqrted in 2007 and this carryon still happens.,

 

My Grandfather passed away sept 2009, I inherited his car, My pride and joy now. on 10/09.10 The DVLA clamped my car on private property. I had declaredit sorn but heres the thing.

I was living in a property which had a locked garage up until July 2010, when I moved, I moved to a propert wth a private parking bay, part of the property which the DVLA had no right to enter. It was Blocked off from the public access road that is my street. Not quite a drive way, but private land all the same.

Anyway, In July of 2010, I declared the car sorn. As there had been a "mix up" the SORN was not valid. Then all of a sudden when talking to some other idiot form the DVLA they claimed to have never recieved a SORN or the New keeper details. The threatened to take my deceased grandfather to court. (Via the f***ing occult i presume)

 

They also threatened to scrap my car.

 

I went to a lawyer - matter took weeks to resolve.

 

Heres a tip - If you actually want to talk to a HUMAN at the DVLA instead of being told to press option 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 etc Just press the star * key twice on your telephone key pad. Although i'm not sure it will be a person you get through to, it seemed I was talking to a Monkey that just happened to be fluent in English!

 

Now I know why Anne Robinson Hates the Welsh!!!