birchave v Goldfish No credit agreement (yet!)

[birchave0]

In February of this year I sent a request for a copy of my CCA with Goldfish credit card along with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request. What I received was rather puzzling, a copy of their terms and conditions with my name, address and account number typed on it. It was dated 8-3-07, I have had a Goldfish card since 2003. I rang them and said they had sent the wrong item, I wanted a copy of the credit agreement not a copy of the terms and conditions. They said they would put it in the post. What arrived next was another copy of the said terms and condtions together with a covering letter;

 

miss birchave

 

11-5-07

 

dear miss birchave

 

I write in respone to your telephone call to our customer assistance department on 1st May 2007 regarding your goldfish credit card account.

 

I understand that you did not receive the information you requested under the consumer credit act 1974. I can confirm that a letter was sent to you on 13-3-07 with a copy of your executed credit agreement and 12 months statements. I have enclosed a copy of these for your records.

 

if you have any further enquiries regarding you consumer credit act request please feel free to write to me at the above address or call me on 01236 797250.

 

yours sincerely

 

alan McKissock

customer liason officer.

 

Well how can it be executed if it has no signatures on it or the correct date the agreement was made? Where it says credit limit it says - we will set a credit limit and tell you what it is before we send your card!!!!!

 

I rang Mr McKissock, he was very nervous and tried to assure me that this WAS a credit agreement and perfectly legal, he also added that I was behind in my payments and I had better get my finger out, or words to that effect! They defaulted me in January as I was behind with my payments, I agreed to pay a set amount per month but as my other half has been out of work for a while it's been difficult, I agreed another amount but after all my reading on this site I think they have defaulted by not supplying the CCA. I'm not going to make any more payments.

 

I think they don't have it, Goldfish was sold to Lloyds in 2003 and then they sold it to Morgan Stanley. I will try and scan and attach the send document, be back in a jiffy........

[birchave0]

I have tried and failed to scan a copy of the so called agreement....

My computer skills are something to be desired!

But in the meantime I sent a letter to Goldfish regarding my CCA agreement

 

xxxxxxx

Tyne and Wear

xxxxxxxx

 

30th May 2007

FAO Judith Milner

Customer Liaison Department

Account Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Madam

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for the recent letter I received from Alan McKissock, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your response to my original letter; however the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter in February of this year.

My request remains outstanding. An unsigned credit agreement with my details simply printed on it, like the one you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. A blank agreement neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was “properly executed”.

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until 12th March 2007 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Further more, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges on the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information with on this account with any credit reference agency.

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

You had until 10th April 2007 to comply with my request, you failed to provide me with a true copy of a properly executed credit agreement, therefore you have committed a criminal offence and your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation under taken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I also requested all of the information you hold on this account in the form of a Subject Access Request Data Protection Act 1988, to date you have not complied with this either. I still have no information on the Payment Protection Insurance that was applied to this account. I request that this information is also made available.

Yours faithfully

miss birchave

 

I have recieved NO reply but lo and behold when I got home from work on Friday there was a lovely letter for me from a recovery firm in Leeds!!!!

 

The have informed me that Goldfish no longer wish to be contacted to discuss the account and I now have to cough up everything to them, cheque would be nice please!!!!

 

I can't believe it!!!!! They are the ones in the wrong!!!!

 

I rang the company in Leeds, Asked what was going on, it turns out Goldfish should have informed me of their intentions, they didn't.

I told them about my CCA request, no PPI information, copy of their current T + C with my name typed on and this years date, no signature, no credit limit......

They are going to look into it....

It will take them around seven days....

 

I'm just sitting tight now, does anyone think I should write to this lot in Leeds explaining the storying and including copies of the letters, information received to date from Goldfish???

Also what sort of letter should I sent to TS and OFT???

Any ideas anyone???????

[birchave0]

Still nothing from Goldfish or Newman and Co the DAC in Leeds so I rang Newmans. They are awaiting instructions from Goldfish.

I again explained my situation and Goldfish's non complience to my CCA request, they told me they were recording this conversation for training purposes!

I kept my cool and informed them that Goldfish are now in default and have committed an offence, he asked me what I was talking about and I referred him back to my CCA request and the timeline used. He then told me that I had the information requested, I said not, he claims that I asked Goldfish for a copy of my terms and conditions and that's what I got!!!!

The Bl**dy nerve of the man! I informed him that had requested "a copy of the signed, executed, credit agreement". OH did you????

 

I then offered to send him copies of all my correspondence with Goldfish including my original CCA letter, and their replies. He then changed his tune and said "oh you mean a copy of the microfishe agreement"......

 

He then assured me he was going to email Goldfish and get them to send me this information.....

 

Bearing in mind it's Friday afternoon........

 

He then asked me what I was hoping to achieve by this request and the amount outstanding was far more than any charges on the account????

 

What on earth is he on about???? To date I have not asked for my charges back!!!!

 

I said it was my right as a consumer to have this information, I did not have to disclose to him my reasons, I also pointed out that Goldfish have been charging me PPI on this card and I had no knowledge of signing for it or agreeing it. This information should have been included with my initial request, it was not.

 

He then had a whinge about how they were only a debt recovery company, I had not made a payment since March (naughty, naughty) and this really had nothing to do with them...

 

I said because Goldfish had not complied with the CCA request they could not charge interest on the account, place charges on the account or pass it on to a third party (them) for collection.

 

Has anyone received a copy of their agreement from Goldfish, paper or microfishe?????

 

BUMP!!!!!!

[birchave0]

bump Anyone???????

[noomill060]

Phone your local Trading Standards. Google Consumer Direct for TS in your area.

 

Then photocopy whatever nonsense they sent you and send it with a covering letter to TS to see what they think it is.

[noomill060]

its not half 4 yet, so ring TS for there opinion. have the document infront of you and tell them whats on it in the way of precribed terms. they will probably ask you if it has a sig, an APR repayment intercals and credit limit.

 

What does it say on the top?

 

Application form or This is a Credit Agreement bla bla bla?

[birchave0]

Phone your local Trading Standards. Google Consumer Direct for TS in your area.

 

Then photocopy whatever nonsense they sent you and send it with a covering letter to TS to see what they think it is.

 

THANK YOU!!!!

I was beginning to think no one cared!!!!

 

YOU ARE A STAR!!!! on my way to the photocopier now!!!

 

Birchave:)

[noomill060]

No worries. Im in the same boat!

[noomill060]

Phone TS before they slip off to the pub!!!

 

Tell them Goldshark are probably in breach of s.78 (5) of the CCA1974 and they continue to debit interest, charges and are threatening you wid recovery action.

[birchave0]

its not half 4 yet, so ring TS for there opinion. have the document infront of you and tell them whats on it in the way of precribed terms. they will probably ask you if it has a sig, an APR repayment intercals and credit limit.

 

What does it say on the top?

 

Application form or This is a Credit Agreement bla bla bla?

 

It's simply two pages of terms and conditions, my name/address printed on the top, account number. No signatures, no credit limit, no date of signing, it says credit agreement but how can it be when it has 8th March 2007 on it? I applied for the card in 2003! There is no information about the ppi either, I've worked out I've paid nearly £1200 overthe last 4 years for this PPI, which I don't remember agreeing to. Yikes!

[birchave0]

No worries. Im in the same boat!

 

Feels like I'm the only one!!!!

[noomill060]

Loads of us in here care- we're on the consumer credit act and loan company cant provide copy of agreement threads. There is also a CCA workshop thread.

[noomill060]

Phone Ts, Damn You!!!

[noomill060]

08454 04 05 06

[noomill060]

Consumer Direct.

 

You'll have a better weekend if you do!

[noomill060]

Consumer Direct

[birchave0]

08454 04 05 06

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

[noomill060]

It sounds like it isnt a True Copy of an Executed Credit Agreement.

[noomill060]

You're welcome

 

Come back and tell us how you get on.

[birchave0]

You're welcome

 

Come back and tell us how you get on.

 

WILL DO!!!

[birchave0]

Phone Ts, Damn You!!!

 

Rang consumer direct, told them full story, very helpful, nice guy told me I had done everything right and had given Goldfish every chance to supply the requested information. He said it does not sound like an executed agreement either. He is going to pass this on to Sunderland trading standards, they will ring me in the next few days, so just sit tight and keep my fingers crossed............

[noomill060]

Told you that you would have a better weekend!

 

It isnt enforceable.

 

Possible use as paper darts, or lighting your fire, though

[noomill060]

If you want something to read, go here-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/10900-loan-company-cannot-supply.html

[birchave0]

If you want something to read, go here-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/10900-loan-company-cannot-supply.html

 

I have tried (and failed!!!) to read this in one go!!!

But I do drop in from time to time and it'd been very interesting, I have not read though of many members who have had their debt rendered "unenforcable".

I understand that this should not be the purpose of a CCA request but surely in a lot of cases the debt has already been repaid and the outstanding balance made up of charges and high % compound/contractual interest rates.

 

The so called CCA sent to me by Goldfish is showing an APR of a staggering 21.9%!!!!! Is that the rate I agreed to in 2003???? Who knows?:?

[birchave0]

Had phone call today from a nice lady at trading standards!

 

Told her the tale about Goldfish and their DCA Newmans.

 

She has told me they have not complied with my request, she also said that I have obviously not agreed to these current terms and conditions. I have now to write to Goldfish and tell them they have 14 days to reply to me, tell them that I have reported them to trading standards and the OFT. (so need suitable letter for OFT!!!)

 

She also said that because they had sent NO details of the PPI they have on the account I have to ask for the money back!!! Plus the late charges. The comment was made that companies like goldfish have a habit of ticking boxes for you!!! She said that the charges could have been caused by Goldfish charging money for the PPI!!!!

 

Since I seemed to be on a bit of a run I told her about my other CCA requests and the application forms I had received back, but she said they were simply that...... APPLICATION FORMS!!!! Not credit agreements!!!!!

 

Any body got any ideas on a suitable letter to goldfish and OFT????