close premium finance help needed

[karen654321]

Hiya, no need to apologise. Thats fine to put a link in here im sure stadium arcade will keep an eye on you. stadium had been absolutely fantastic. I actually dont think i would be this far now if it wasnt for the advice and encouragement.

 

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

As for my case still nothing in the post.

 

karen

[karen654321]

Hiya,

 

Stadium i could do with some advice again pleeeeeeeeease.

 

I havent heard anything back from the court. It was the 22nd of last month when i rang and they told me that cpf had sent in the documents in time and that the next thing i would get would be a court date.

 

I havent had anything through. Im not sure if i should phone the court or would you normally wait a while for a date.

 

Dont want to sound keen or anything but im worrying morning till night about this.

 

I dont have a cup of tea in the morning now till the postman has been in case theres court papers there. Cant relax lol

 

anyway speak soon

 

karen

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Karen, try not to worry. I know thats easier said than done when I'm not the one possibly facing court, but you have a good case here and just like the banks, cpf will more than likely pay up rather than appear in court.

 

It won't do any harm if you want to ring the courts to check on the progress of your case. If it will help you feel better then I'd say go for it. The first thing I do in the morning is have a cuppa or two, it sets me up for the day. I am going to PM you...can't have you missing your morning cup of tea;)

 

 

HHTP, good luck with your claim, will be very interested to see your progress. I asked if you had a thread cos I'd searched the forums before to try and find someone else battling with cpf with no results, and thought I'd missed yours lol. I will start my own case against them in November, so the outcome of yours and Karen's claims are of great interest to me.

[karen654321]

Hiya, thanks for the great advice again. I rang the court on Friday and they couldnt actually find the file but said i should hear next week with a date.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

karen

[karen654321]

hi, ive just received some more paperwork from cpf.

 

here goes

 

In response to the recent general form of judgement or order in relation to claim number 8888888888 issued by 88888888, I attach all held documentation in relation to agreements set up for 88888888888 from the time of her first introduction to us by maynard milton insurance brokers ltd in march 2005.

 

The loan agreement that the client took out with us is a telesign product that does not require that they sign a running account credit agreement prior ro taking out the loan. Cpf does send a copy of the agreement and ask that they sign and return it, however they may choose not to do so while still taking up the loan facility that has been set up for them.

 

In this case, we have a copy of the agreement that was sent to the client and numerous letters issued both during the loan period and the period prior to the issuing of this claim, but no signed copy of the agreement form was ever returned by them to close premium finance.

 

By the terms of the consumer credit act in april 2007, any activity suxh as setting up of a mandate, recorded conversation or collection of direct debits will be deemed to constitute an agreement which enable us to enforce a telesign arrangement.

 

With regards to the charges imposed in relation the direct debit defaults these were clearly set ou to the client at the outset of their recent agreement.

 

As we have previously stated, the law allows us to impose default charges which are a resonable pre estimate of our costs for dealing with an account once it fallis into arrears. This includes the administrative, staffing and systems cost of communicating bout the state of the account, answering and additional queries there may be and or renegotiation the loan.

 

We therefore mantain in accordance with our previous statements that we are unable to refund these charges, as they have been properly and resonably levied.

 

yours sincerely

 

 

Well dont really know what to make of that.

Firstly they state about the cca in 4/07 my policy was taken out in 6/06

 

I dont ever remember being asked to sign a credit agreement for car insurance and its not in my file of paperwork.. I usually keep everything. The fact that they say i havent signed one does that help me at all?

 

The part about the resonable costs cover calls, renegotiating the loan etc. Well i have never contacted them by phone until after the policy was cancelled. The loan was never renegotiated.

 

They fail to say that they have promised me a breakdown of there resonable costs although they promised it twice.

 

I still havent got my court date yet but i dont know if i have to reply to the court regarding this information thats been sent to me.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

karen

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Karen, so you didn't sign a credit agreement? How did you apply for the insurance, online, postal? Off the top of my head, I think the CCA was amended in April this year to cover internet applications etc, so when I get back in tonight I'm gonna have a good read through the CCA and see what info I can dig up. It was my understanding that car insurance is classed as a running credit agreement so I'm not sure what they are getting at there:confused: Did they enclose a copy of the agreement they refer to? I'm just wondering if they are trying to cover themselves as you didn't sign an agreement....and if you never received a copy of said agreement then how could you have ever agreed to their charges in the first place.....so yes, it could help you, I think...

I haven't got enough time right now cos I am going out tonight, but I will get back on here later, hopefully armed with more info.

 

It will be interesting to see what HHTP gets in the post too....any news your holiness?

[karen654321]

Hiya thanks for that AGAIN. lol. I actually had been with that insurance broker for a while When insurance was up for renewal they sent me a quote. I phoned them and paid deposit i believe. I dont remember signing any agreement but not 100%. I know i had to send a copy of driving licence to them but thats all.

 

Thanks for your help

 

karen

[stadium_arcadium]

hi, ive just received some more paperwork from cpf.

 

here goes

 

In response to the recent general form of judgement or order in relation to claim number 8888888888 issued by 88888888, I attach all held documentation in relation to agreements set up for 88888888888 from the time of her first introduction to us by maynard milton insurance brokers ltd in march 2005.

Can you tell us what they sent you?

 

The loan agreement that the client took out with us is a telesign product that does not require that they sign a running account credit agreement prior ro taking out the loan. Cpf does send a copy of the agreement and ask that they sign and return it, however they may choose not to do so while still taking up the loan facility that has been set up for them.

I looked up telesign, as I'd not heard of it before:

TeleSign - Home Page

http://www.telesign.com/docs/CorporateFactSheet.pdf

Close Premium Finance, Already working with Close, Press release

 

In this case, we have a copy of the agreement that was sent to the client and numerous letters issued both during the loan period and the period prior to the issuing of this claim, but no signed copy of the agreement form was ever returned by them to close premium finance.

Did they supply this copy to you? If so does it state their default charges clearly?

 

By the terms of the consumer credit act in april 2007, any activity suxh as setting up of a mandate, recorded conversation or collection of direct debits will be deemed to constitute an agreement which enable us to enforce a telesign arrangement.

They are being a bit vague here by not stating which sections of the act they are quoting, and I can't seem to find anything that relates to their statement at the mo (I will have another look tommorrow, it's gettin a bit late lol)

 

With regards to the charges imposed in relation the direct debit defaults these were clearly set ou to the client at the outset of their recent agreement.

If you didn't receive a copy of the agreement then no, you wouldn't have seen the charges.

 

As we have previously stated, the law allows us to impose default charges which are a resonable pre estimate of our costs for dealing with an account once it fallis into arrears. This includes the administrative, staffing and systems cost of communicating bout the state of the account, answering and additional queries there may be and or renegotiation the loan.

As it states in the telesign fact sheet, the costs are "miniscule" for setting up an agreement, plus the fact that everything is automated these days, it does not cost £30 to sent an automated letter. You have asked for a breakdown and they've still not supplied it, and we know they won't because they can't justify their extortionate charges.

They also state here Close Premium Finance, Have a loan with Close, FAQ that you should go to your broker to change any details, except where DD's are concerned. To me, that reads that the broker deals with answering any additional queries there may be.. Also they state "If you want to change your repayment date or add another policy to your premium it can be dealt with electronically":rolleyes:

 

We therefore mantain in accordance with our previous statements that we are unable to refund these charges, as they have been properly and resonably levied.

Well prove it then!!

 

yours sincerely

 

 

Well dont really know what to make of that.

Firstly they state about the cca in 4/07 my policy was taken out in 6/06

 

I dont ever remember being asked to sign a credit agreement for car insurance and its not in my file of paperwork.. I usually keep everything. The fact that they say i havent signed one does that help me at all?

 

The part about the resonable costs cover calls, renegotiating the loan etc. Well i have never contacted them by phone until after the policy was cancelled. The loan was never renegotiated.

 

They fail to say that they have promised me a breakdown of there resonable costs although they promised it twice.

 

I still havent got my court date yet but i dont know if i have to reply to the court regarding this information thats been sent to me.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

karen

 

Did you ask for a breakdown in your PoC? You might be able to go the same route as HHTP, especially if his request for a strike out is successful.

I will have another look at the CCA tommorrow, see if I can find the info cpf are referring to. I think I saw some info on this site somewhere about the new amendments, I'm not sure if they applied to agreements taken out after a certain date.

I don't think you need to contact the court regarding this information. No need to worry about anything, just wait for them to set a date.

[karen654321]

Hiya, I cant believe you were up that early in the morning reading through this. Your brilliant.

 

Right ok. what i yes i did request a breakdown on the general form of judgement or order.

 

On the credit agreement they have provided that im sure i was never sent originally it states

 

If the customer fails to pay any amount due in respect of the account. It will be rquired to reimburns the bank against costs and expenses incurred by the bank as a result and to pay defaul interest, calculated daily on any unpaid amount, at the rate specified above plus 1% as further described in condition 4. The customer shall when requested in writing pay a default fee at the rate notified from time to time. The customer will be required to pay the banks costs incurred in resonding to enquiries relating to the administration of the account as further described in condition 4.

 

3 missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult

 

4 One you have signed this agreement you will have a short time in which you can cancel it. We will send you exact details of how and when you can do this.

 

5 Important The consumer credit act 1974 lays down certain requirement for yourprotection which should have been complied when this agreement was made. If they were not the credit cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order.

The act also give you a number of right. You can settle this agreement at any time by giveing notice in writing and paying all the amount you owe under the agreement.

 

This is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms

 

Customer declarating and data protection

 

by signing this agreement i understand and agree that

 

a the information given by me and conained in this agreement is true and correct

 

i am 18 years or over

 

the information given by me and other information relating to my account may only be used in accordance with purposes and disclosures under current data protection legalisation for the administration of the agreement and any related or linked transactions thereinto.

 

I have read and understood paragraphone 15 in the conditions and i consent to the activities described

 

Then there is no signature

 

at the bottom it states runing accoung credit agreement

 

 

 

There is nothing on the reverse to look at.

 

They have sent me copies of my prelim letter and letter before action. they have sent a copy of statement and copies of two letters they sent me when the payments were originally refused.

 

thanks

 

karen

[hisholinessthepope]

No joy am afraid. The court Case Manager has written back, the Judge has commented as follows "I am not prepared to make the order requested by the Claimant on his written request". Please find enclosed an application form N244.

 

The problem is that my claim is only for £30 so with the court fee it is £60. The cost of an Application without notice is £35 and I think this cost is not recoverable. So really not worth doing it. Will wait for the court date.

[stadium_arcadium]

Hiya, I cant believe you were up that early in the morning reading through this. Your brilliant.

 

Right ok. what i yes i did request a breakdown on the general form of judgement or order. I don't know if it makes any difference, but did you request this on your particulars of claim (the form/MCOL you filled in when you filed your claim)?

 

On the credit agreement they have provided that im sure i was never sent originally it states

 

If the customer fails to pay any amount due in respect of the account. It will be rquired to reimburns the bank against costs and expenses incurred by the bank as a result and to pay defaul interest, calculated daily on any unpaid amount, at the rate specified above plus 1% as further described in condition 4. The customer shall when requested in writing pay a default fee at the rate notified from time to time. The customer will be required to pay the banks costs incurred in resonding to enquiries relating to the administration of the account as further described in condition 4.

Do you have a copy of the conditions, in particular condition 4 ?

 

3 missing payments could have severe consequences and make obtaining credit more difficult

 

4 One you have signed this agreement you will have a short time in which you can cancel it. We will send you exact details of how and when you can do this.

Did they send you these details?

 

5 Important The consumer credit act 1974 lays down certain requirement for yourprotection which should have been complied when this agreement was made. If they were not the credit cannot enforce this agreement without getting a court order.

The act also give you a number of right. You can settle this agreement at any time by giveing notice in writing and paying all the amount you owe under the agreement.

 

This is a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms

 

Customer declarating and data protection

 

by signing this agreement i understand and agree that

 

a the information given by me and conained in this agreement is true and correct

 

i am 18 years or over

 

the information given by me and other information relating to my account may only be used in accordance with purposes and disclosures under current data protection legalisation for the administration of the agreement and any related or linked transactions thereinto.

 

I have read and understood paragraphone 15 in the conditions and i consent to the activities described

 

Then there is no signature

neither yours nor their signature?

 

at the bottom it states runing accoung credit agreement

So it IS covered by the CCA...I read that some insurance agreements may not be covered by the CCA, so I think this will go in your favour.(hopefully)

 

 

 

There is nothing on the reverse to look at.

 

They have sent me copies of my prelim letter and letter before action. they have sent a copy of statement and copies of two letters they sent me when the payments were originally refused.

Did these two letters state your DD's had been refused and that you would be charged, and how much that charge would be? How many payments were refused?

 

thanks

 

karen

Sorry for the questions again, I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of everything:)

[stadium_arcadium]

No joy am afraid. The court Case Manager has written back, the Judge has commented as follows "I am not prepared to make the order requested by the Claimant on his written request". Please find enclosed an application form N244.

 

The problem is that my claim is only for £30 so with the court fee it is £60. The cost of an Application without notice is £35 and I think this cost is not recoverable. So really not worth doing it. Will wait for the court date.

I don't blame you really, the cost is too much for such a small claim. Oh well, looks like we'll just have to play the waiting game. Good luck and keep us updated:)

[karen654321]

Hiya stadium thanks for reply.

 

No i didnt request this info on my poc.. (kicking myself now)

 

Condition 4 is not there. I presume its ment to be the other side of the document they sent me but thats blank.

 

Ive looked through my paperwork and i cant find anything regarding cancelling this policy.

 

On the cca its states signature of customers(thats blank)

date of signatures (thats blank)

Print name (thats blank)

Signature of bank there is a signature there

 

Yes there letter states:

 

This includes a charge of £30.00 to cover our administrative expenses.

 

I am claiming for 5 x £30.00.

 

thanks again i think ive answered all your questions.

 

 

karen

[Simon7685]

Hi Karen

 

I too have had problems with Close. I took out motor insurance online through Its4me in Jan 2005. I have had 5 dd's bounce since then and intend to claim the money back.

 

I wonder if you could tell me, where did you get your prelim letter and lba from for your case? I have looked at the bank ones but am not sure if they are appropriate or not for this claim. Also I am not sure whether to issue any claim to Its4me or Close premium.

 

If you can offer any help I would be most grateful.

Thanks very much and good luck with your claim.

 

Simon

[karen654321]

Hiya simon. Sorry to hear your having a nightmare with this company also.

 

My prelimary and lba was the standard bank template i just adjusted it.

 

I believe you would be dealing with close premium but im hoping someone will confirm this for you.

 

Just an update on my situation. Still waiting for a court date. I rang the court again today and apparantly my file has had to go back in before the judge. Not sure why and the lady couldnt tell me why.

 

Will keep you posted

 

karen

[Simon7685]

Hi Karen

 

Thanks for that, I hoped they would be ok to use but its good to know someone else has used them........

 

I saw you posted on the Sky thread. Not been on for a while but will update tomorrow. I will be wanting some poc ideas myself soon, I will start looking and let you know if I find anything.

 

Thanks again

 

Simon

[stadium_arcadium]

Hiya simon. Sorry to hear your having a nightmare with this company also.

 

My prelimary and lba was the standard bank template i just adjusted it.

 

I believe you would be dealing with close premium but im hoping someone will confirm this for you.

 

Just an update on my situation. Still waiting for a court date. I rang the court again today and apparantly my file has had to go back in before the judge. Not sure why and the lady couldnt tell me why.

 

Will keep you posted

 

karen

Hi Karen, sorry I've not been around much, had a few things at home to deal with. The judge was probably looking at your file to make a decision on a date, or how to proceed.

IMHO, I think you have a good case so far. The only thing you have to do now is wait for a date:)

 

 

I am not sure whether to issue any claim to Its4me or Close premium.

Hi Simon, as Karen correctly stated, issue your claim to Close. Good luck!

[karen654321]

Hiya still waiting for court date.. Its taking forever.. will keep you posted

 

 

karen

[karen654321]

hiya just an update

 

Had another general form of judgement or order this morning..

 

Upon proceeding having been issued in the high court to determine the legality or otherwise of bank charges

 

and upon it appearing to the court that this claim will be affected by the outcome of the proceedings

 

it is ordered that

 

1 the claim be stayed until determination of the proceedings in the high court.

 

2 liberty to either party to apply on notice under cpr23 to lift the stay

 

3 the hearing of any application to lift the stay be reserved to district judge dudley

 

this order was made of the courts own initiative pursuant to cpr part 3.3(4). You may apply to set aside, vary or stay the order but such application must be made within 7 days of recieving it

 

 

So i believe this means i wont get a date till the oft thing has gone through???

 

any help appreciated

 

karen

[stadium_arcadium]

Hi Karen, yes thats right, the court have stayed your claim until the outcome of the OFT case. You can, if you wish, apply for the stay to be lifted, using the hardship argument. But this will not necessarily work from what I've seen around the forums. Plus it would cost you £35 to submit the N244, which you wouldn't get back. YOur best bet I'm afraid would probably be to wait:rolleyes: especially as there are postal strikes announced for the next few days.

The plus side to this is when (if) the outcome of the test case is positive you should just get your money back:)

 

Question for HHTP...have you had your court date stayed?

[karen654321]

Hiya stadium, Thanks for that.. Ive actually rang the court and basically said i dont know why its been stayed as its nothing to do with the oft and bank thing.. The woman said that she did wonder this when the order was sent out.. She told me cpf had also been on the phone to query it (sounds like they are keen to get me to court).

 

She has told me to put it in writing to the judge that i have got no case against a bank this claim is in respect of money taken in charges for my car insurance.

 

So i will try this.. Not sure if it will get me anywhere though.

 

what do you think??

 

thanks

 

karen

[hisholinessthepope]

I have a court date of the 20th November and it hasn't been stayed.

[karen654321]

Loads of luck for you... Make sure you keep us posted...What area is your court in.. I notice your south as well

 

thanks

 

karen

[hisholinessthepope]

Chichester

[stadium_arcadium]

Hiya stadium, Thanks for that.. Ive actually rang the court and basically said i dont know why its been stayed as its nothing to do with the oft and bank thing.. The woman said that she did wonder this when the order was sent out.. She told me cpf had also been on the phone to query it (sounds like they are keen to get me to court).

 

She has told me to put it in writing to the judge that i have got no case against a bank this claim is in respect of money taken in charges for my car insurance.

 

So i will try this.. Not sure if it will get me anywhere though.

 

what do you think??

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

karen

Hya, lots of courts are doing this regardless of whether the claim is for bank charges or not...originally the stays were supposed to be limited to just bank overdraft charges...but across the boards cases for credit card claims and others have been stayed automatically, with claimants having to apply for lifts to their stays.

Def worth writing that letter, you've nothing to lose by trying.

 

I have a court date of the 20th November and it hasn't been stayed.

Glad to hear it, though it might be worth ringing them to check;-) A few claimants have had stays imposed when they've already had their court dates.