Jump to content


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 4912 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Good morning all.

Excuse the title as I do not mean to stereotype too much. but where i live in Leicester a large proportion of the Arriva bus drivers are just plain ignorant and rude.

It leads me onto an unfortunate incident which happened 30th August last year - please bear with me as I outline the situation.

Over the last 12 years I have been suffering from, and have been treated for, anxiety related depression. Three years ago, after collapsing with dizzy spells at work, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. After a relapse lasting three months later last year I was confirmed as having the relapsing-remitting variety.

On the date I mentioned above, I was suffering a lot from mental confusion - called 'cognitive dysfunction' and I was getting very distrssed as I was unable to focus on my work. After speaking to my manager, I was allowed to go home. At around 2pm I caught an Arriva bus, which stops outside the flats in which I live.

All was well until I decided to get off the bus. I pressed the red button for the bus to stop and took my place at the front as my stop was approaching. The driver said to me “do you want this stop” to which I answered that I did to which he aggressively stated “then press the bell in future”. I was taken aback by his attitude and I told him that I did and he relied “no you didn’t” and this verbal assault on me went on for a couple of minutes when he told me to get off his bus.

 

I have to add at this point I was very, very distressed and confused, taking into consideration the reasons I was on his bus at this particular time. I have to admit at this point, and completely out of character for myself, I lashed out at the driver delivering a blow or two onto his arm. The driver then drove his bus forwards with the door open to let me physically fall out of the bus, and he stopped and the drove forwards again. He had a smile on his face. At this time I had my rucksack that I take to work on the bus platform at which I had to jump back onto to retrieve as this had important passes to work which should never be allowed to fall into the general publics hands as I am an officer for Her Majesty’s Inland Revenue and these passes allow me access to the inside of the workplace.

When I was grabbing my bag on the platform he came from behind his seat and locked the doors - another person, a teenager who appeared to know the driver intervened and both attempted to hold me to the floor. I tried to resist and tried to get off the bus now my bag had been retrieved but I got the doors opened and then was wrestled to the ground, myself hanging backwards out of the bus. It was then I noticed a crowd had gathered outside the bus and one particular woman was shouting 'kick him in the head'. This womand appeared to know the driver as well and I was struggling, as I, was lying at an angle with my head back, to keep conscious. My MS does not allow me to have my head back to any degree otherwise I have an acute attack of dizzyness. I tried to pull myself up but was kept being pushed back by my captors and when I stated my condition I was told 'tough'. The woman outside the bus hit my head with an object of which I could not be sure of but left a bloodied mark on my head.

The police arrived, helped me up and took me off to the station. I was corteous and polite at all times to them, an in one months time, after answering bail I was given a caution.The police doctor who had examined me cited me as 'a vunerable person' due to my ilnesses and if it were not for the verbal harrasment and intimidatory approach from the driver I would not have reacted the way I did.

I admit that I was in the wrong for escalating the incident with lashing out but I also believe that the bus drivers have a duty of care towards all passengers as outlined in The Driver Act 1990 (for buses) and that people have a basic right to carry on their lawful business without fear of verbal assault or harassment. Add to the fact that I am a depressive, who was also confused and distressed due to his MS on this day I feel a little bit peeved that this had happened.

As a consequence of this incident, this is what triggered the relapse which, as I stated before, lasted three months and I am still not 100 per cent even now.

I am looking for any advice on howI can escalate this to Arriva as I believe although I hold my hands up and admit that I was in the wrong, I feel a large part of the blame should be attributed to the driver of the bus.

I am not a violent person and I deeply regret the incident but I feel that Arriva are not a totally innocent party in all of this.

I would appreciate any help or advice on this.

Regards,

Rob

Link to post
Share on other sites

Did the police interview the driver of the bus, or any witnesses at the time of the incident?

PPMAN159

 

If this comment has helped please click on the scales.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes they did. I had already been put into the back of the police car at this time and then transferred to a van as soon as it had arrived so I was unable to see what else was going on.

I know that I had mentioned all this in my statement to the police pretty much the same as I have mentioned it above and I understand that if I had made a criminal accusation such as I did about being hit on the head then the police have a duty under due process to look into that but nothing else has ever been mentioned about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way I have certainly not heard or been relayed any eye-witness accounts from any witnesses but have been informed, although very off the record, by a police officer that the bus driver appeared 'Thuggish' -

I am sorry but I cannot give anymore information than that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not 100% of what to do so may I suggest that you either go back to the Police station and see if they can give any advice.

 

Failing that how about your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

Good luck

 

PPMAN

PPMAN159

 

If this comment has helped please click on the scales.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst it all sounds very distressing, many companies now take a very strong line against physical attacks on their staff, whether there is provocation or not.

 

Presumably if there are no witnesses who are prepared to back-up your version of events, the police were forced to take things at face value, but at least appeared to have dealt with the situation without resorting to court.

 

From reading your own description of events, the fact that you had to reboard the bus (even if just to collect your own belongings) may have looked like you were attempting to carry on with your original assault. Whilst it is regretable that other people joined in, I would imagine they couldn't possibly know or understand your condition, or (at that point) the reasons for your behaviour, and perhaps thought they were protecting their (regular?) driver against an unknown assailant.

 

Were the doors been already open during his initial verbal assault (which you say lasted for some minutes). If they weren't, I'm surprised other passengers haven't commented, as they would obviously have noticed the bus stopped for some minutes with noone getting on/off, and would have wondered what was going on. Is it possible that the verbal argument was over a lot quicker than you thought?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Arriva, they are a jolly bunch of souls. I have every sympathy for you, have you contacted their customer complaints the number is on the ticket. You have to start somewhere and they will pass your complaint onto the relevant people.

Where i live the drivers take terrible abuse, i have seen doors kicked off by people who the driver would not let on because he had a pit-bull type dog. Some drivers have been shot at, i have been on a bus that had its window put through. They are rubbish though:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The doors were shut after the verbal assault took place as we were on the way to the stop.

As for going to the police for further help I can foget that. At all times I was polite and complient when the police arrived, but when I was lifted up from the held backm position I said that I would need some help as my legs had gone (due to the MS) and I did not want to appear to be struggling at which they replied "if we thought you were struggling we would have sprayed you" - meaning the CS spray. My hands were cuffed behind my back, again I willing placed my hands behind the back to allow them to do so as protocol dictates. However, I was sweating heavily in the back of the police car, and the heat causes my MS to flare up and there was no ventilation in the car. I called over an officer and explained this to him and stated as I am secured could I have the window open a very small amount to allow me some air to relieve my condition. He looked at me, just said an abrupt "no" and slammed the door shut .

According to the revised DDA (Disability Discriminatiojn Act) of December 2006 it would have been a duty of the Police Officer to comply with this, but as this was august they could do what they wanted. When I made a complaint regarding this I was told that the two officers who attended were not aware of any condition which was a blatant lie as I had told the officers this when they escorted me to the car and once again whilst in the car.

The lie was also repeated in writing stating that "the two officers were not aware of any disability but if they had been made aware of it at the time they would have taken this into consideration".

As you can see this has shaken my faith somewhat in the police system.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the bus you were on was not very old it would most certainly have CCTV which records at various angles at the front of the saloon. Contact Arriva in writing with a copy of the ticket (the bus number can be identified from the ticket) requesting to see the footage.

 

If the police were called the footage should be securely saved for inspection.

 

You may be able to use the Data Protection Act to get a copy released to you.

PUTTING IT IN WRITING & KEEPING COPIES IS A MUST FOR SUCCESS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you all for your answers - I am just trying to decide where to go from here.

The unfortunate thinng was it took the police two months to investigate then I only found out two hours before I was due to answer bail that I was to get a caution - If I was charged I would have almost certainly have lost my job.

From what I believe it was the CPS who decided that it was not in the public interest to prosecute - I am 36 and have no record - but when I went to the station the officers seemed unhappy about the result - they were all very abrupt with me.

Like I said it was completely mitigating circumstances and if the driver had not started the argument and started calling me a t**t (sorry but I forgot to mention this in my initial thread - I just said that the argument had escalated) for no fault of my own I think I would not have lost it.

If I was not very distressed and depressed at my state of mind (being confused at even the slightest thing - MS related) I do not think I would have reacted the way I did.

If you consider the generic profile of a violent offender I do not think I fit into the stereotypical category - I am a family man employed as a civil servant who is non smoking, non drug using teetotal vegitarian who is more than happy to curl up with a good novel with a bit of Genesis on the stereo!

I think if I had hair people would look at the profile and call me bl**dy hippy more than anything! LOL!

Link to post
Share on other sites

In defence of bus drivers, I drove buses in Peterborough for a year. I left because of the abuse suffered from passengers. Physical and verbal, bus drivers are not saints but belive me we take a lot more [EDIT] than we ever give back. Passengers tend to get the bus drivers they deserve, and the way drivers are treated means they can sometimes seem surly and unhelpful. How would you feel if you give someone a cheery "Good Morning" and the reply is "Where the [EDIT]have you been you [EDIT]?".

Obviously the passenger thinks you got held up in rush hour traffic in order to spite them personally!!. The fact that you like Genesis does not alter the fact that you assaulted another person.

Don't forget to contribute 5% of your winnings. I know I wouldn't have been able to get my money back without the help of this website. :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites

So the bus did actually stop and you could have just got off ? Sure you could have said something to the driver or even got off the bus gone home and written a letter, violence is never the answer !! You made a mistake for whatever reason, learn from it and get on with your life !!

Professional Halifax Loather

 

"In the dark, all cats are grey"

 

Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Link to post
Share on other sites
Whilst it is regretable that other people joined in, I would imagine they couldn't possibly know or understand your condition, or (at that point) the reasons for your behaviour, and perhaps thought they were protecting their (regular?) driver against an unknown assailant.

 

In a criminal case, there is a doctrine called the "thin skull rule".

 

The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as the shell of an egg, and an attacker who did not know of that condition were to hit that person on the head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the responsible party would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even though they were not foreseeable. The general maxim is that the assailant must "take their victim as they find them".

 

I think you should see CAB and see what they say on it.

Your condition my have aggravated the situation, but the driver and others should be held responsible for any ill after affect suffered by you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The unfortunate thinng was it took the police two months to investigate then I only found out two hours before I was due to answer bail that I was to get a caution - If I was charged I would have almost certainly have lost my job.

From what I believe it was the CPS who decided that it was not in the public interest to prosecute - I am 36 and have no record - but when I went to the station the officers seemed unhappy about the result - they were all very abrupt with me.

 

You can only get a caution if you admit guilt and accept it. Nobody can be forced to have a caution.

 

I doubt that you would lose your job over being charged - since at that point you are not guilty of any offence

Link to post
Share on other sites
In a criminal case, there is a doctrine called the "thin skull rule".

 

The term implies that if a person had a skull as delicate as the shell of an egg, and an attacker who did not know of that condition were to hit that person on the head, causing the skull unexpectedly to break, the responsible party would be held liable for all damages resulting from the wrongful contact, even though they were not foreseeable. The general maxim is that the assailant must "take their victim as they find them".

 

I think you should see CAB and see what they say on it.

Your condition my have aggravated the situation, but the driver and others should be held responsible for any ill after affect suffered by you.

 

Perhaps so, but the driver could potentially offer a defence of "self defence", as the OP has freely admitted assaulting him.

 

Similarly the person holding down the OP, immediately following his assault on the driver could be seen to be protecting the driver. Holding down a seemingly violent person, and preventing them further attacking the driver is something that is often praised and awarded, not punished with criminal charges. "Have-a-go hero" style headlines are for bystanders stepping in to prevent problems. If all he did was hold down the OP (albeit in a manner which caused dizzyness) then who is to argue that he didn't in fact prevent further assault on the driver? If he used "reasonable force", then some people would actually COMMEND his behaviour...

 

The woman who hit the OP on the head - that's another matter entirely. She could/should be followed up.

 

Regardless of the "thin skull rule", if you attack another person, I feel you have to accept some of the consequences if you, yourself, are injured as a result. Your condition doesn't give you the right to hit out at anyone who says something you don't like, and then blame them for what happens.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In fact, Wiki says:

 

A defense against the eggshell skull rule is the crumbling skull rule. The rule rebuts the eggshell skull by arguing that whatever harm incurred by the victim was inevitable and the defendant's acts only had a minimal effect upon the already deteriorating circumstances. For example, a dying patient is treated improperly by a doctor. Though the doctor did more harm than good, he cannot be held liable for the death of the patient because of the crumbling skull rule.

The crumbling skull rule can be seen as denying causation rather than rebutting the eggshell skull rule itself. In crumbling skull cases, it generally cannot be argued that, but for the defendant's actions, the harm to the victim would not have occurred.

 

I roughly translate the last part as:

 

"If you have a glass-jaw (eggshell skull) don't take up boxing."

 

The OP could have prevented the "damage" to his person, exacerbated by his condition, by not assaulting the driver in the first place. What ensued (which is potentially viewable as "reasonable force" or "restraint") was a direct result of his original actions.

 

Physically assaulting someone has several possible consquences, INCLUDING damage to one's own person out of self-defence etc. I have sympathy for the OP, but merely suggest that (in the days of heightened security risks, with bombers on buses) what followed the assault on the driver was largely inevitable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i see your point but self defense MUST be proportionate to the original attack, any worse would be construed as being excessive force and the thin skull rule would come in again.

i do agree with your point of view but IMO the OP may have a case arguing that the excessive retaliation and a blow to the head from behind is too much when compared with a hit in the arm.

Link to post
Share on other sites
i see your point but self defense MUST be proportionate to the original attack, any worse would be construed as being excessive force and the thin skull rule would come in again.

i do agree with your point of view but IMO the OP may have a case arguing that the excessive retaliation and a blow to the head from behind is too much when compared with a hit in the arm.

 

Agreed. But the blow to the head was from someone completely different. Not the bus driver, nor the youth (?) who held the OP down.

 

Fully agree that the cowardly woman who did that needs to be followed-up - that isn't in question - but the simple act of holding someone down (presumably they didn't invite other people to begin joining in?) in order to prevent further breach of the peace I would argue is "normal" behaviour.

 

Sympathy with the OP for it not being a pleasant experience, though...

Link to post
Share on other sites

My Husband is a bus driver and is constantly under threat of violence from passengers. It is the worst job he has ever had to do and he cant wait to find something else so that he can jack it in.

 

My mother has suffered from manic depression for 40 years (since I was 8 years old). I am very aware of how depression affects people but my Mother tries to use her illness as an excuse to get away with atrocious behaviour at times.

 

It appears you have done the same. What gives you the right to physically assault someone who is doing a godawful job, use your illness as an excuse for such appalling behaviour and then expect the recipient of your violence to pay for the consequences of your actions?

 

Sorry but reading this and knowing what my Husband endures on a daily basis has really annoyed me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

besides all above.

one of the terms and conditions of carriage a passenger must abide by is not to get up from their seat until the bus stops at an approved bus stop.

 

this also helps avoid compensation claims when the twerlies [two-earlies] fly around the bus because they did not stay seated.

 

dx100uk

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaytutt,

I am with you 100%. Bus drivers should recieve a lot more support from the people they are caring for when they drive. unfortunately it seems that passengers use a bus driver as a whipping boy, and take their frustrations out on them. "Sacked from your job?.."Argument with your girlfriend?"..never mind....have a go at the bus driver.

Don't forget to contribute 5% of your winnings. I know I wouldn't have been able to get my money back without the help of this website. :-D

Link to post
Share on other sites
besides all above.

one of the terms and conditions of carriage a passenger must abide by is not to get up from their seat until the bus stops at an approved bus stop.

 

this also helps avoid compensation claims when the twerlies [two-earlies] fly around the bus because they did not stay seated.

 

dx100uk

 

That's a laugh. I am having to ue a walking stick for the time being, and so have to ring the bell and wait for the bus to stop before getting up. Half the time, the bus doesn't stop, and I am met with huffs and puffs of indignation from the driver who is desparate to shoot off.

 

The problem is that bus drivers are the face of the company. Unfortunately, most bus companies are not very good at all (Private Eye refers to First Group as "Worst Group" or "First Droop"), and it is the drivers who take the flak. In some cases, it is the drivers themselves who are at fault. These include (I have experienced all on at least one occasion):

1. Failing to stop at designated stops where people are clearly seen putting their hand out for the bus.

2. Closing the doors without bothering to check whether someone is getting on or off at the time (driver got sacked as I had fell on the pavement).

3. Blanking boarding customers who show passes, then moaning when the passenger goes to sit down without driver seeing the pass.

4. No change / Get your change later (then denying that it was owed. That one got sacked also).

 

what is needed is to bring public transport back into public ownership, and not allow it to be run by organisations whose only goal is achieving as much profit as possible. Conductors are also needed so that the driver can do his job properly and safely. And, most of all, common, decent behaviour by passengers and drivers alike.

Link to post
Share on other sites
twerlies [two-earlies]

 

I am glad someone else knows this phrase !! :)

 

My dad used to work on the buses and told me about it when I was a youngster and always makes me laugh

Professional Halifax Loather

 

"In the dark, all cats are grey"

 

Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Link to post
Share on other sites

I always knew it as 'too-earlies', not 'two-earlies' - because at 8:45am, the gaggle of grannies swelled around the bus stop, and the next bus that came along cranked open its doors to be confronted with the excited waving of outstretched passes, and the immortal cawing of: "Am I too early?? 'M I too early, love?" They couldn't wait to go gallivating about for free. :D

 

Now, of course, that they get free Oyster cards instead of bus passes, and AFAIK there's no restrictions on usage with regards to time of day, the 'too-earlies' or 'twirlies' will fade into the mists of the past...

-----

Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
besides all above.

one of the terms and conditions of carriage a passenger must abide by is not to get up from their seat until the bus stops at an approved bus stop.

 

this also helps avoid compensation claims when the twerlies [two-earlies] fly around the bus because they did not stay seated.

 

dx100uk

 

So what about if the passenger is standing because there are no seats? Buses always have their capacities by the driver, and it's usually something along the lines of "20 Seated, 15 Standing - OR - "20 Seated, 13 Standing, 1 Wheelchair User". I actually prefer to stand on a bus, and the only thing that affects my safety then is the driver. There is a noticeable difference between a good bus driver and a bad - if you are standing and are being thrown about like an unsecured barrel in the hold, then you've got a bad driver.

 

Please let us know from where you inferred your above info - I'd be very interested to find out.

-----

Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...