Sherforce-fake high court enforcement officer-long story-help!

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

Hi, this is very long as its really a weeks worth of posts.I have had help and suport from a member of cag through a private PM but was a bit embarressed to start a thread.Anyway here goes.Background:Some time ago i paid my Iinland revenue bill to late and they had started procedings against me. They added £800-00 to the bill of £1800. As soon as i realised i had left it to late i paid up and rang the IR. I was told i probably would not have to pay the costs.I got a letter some months later asking for the£800-00. I wrote back disputing the costs and saying i was told i would not have to pay them. To be truthful i had messed up and was buying time. I never had a reply and forgot about it.

 

A guy turned up at my door last friday at about 5.30pm and said he was a high court enforcement officer and he had a bill for £1800-00.I told him i new nothing about it but i had paid a bill to the IR for the same amount. He told me it was for the costs. I said but they were for £800-00 and i had disputed them but heard nothing. I was handed a form High court form 55 -notice of seizure form sherforce.I looked on it and saw £1000 court cost plus a bit of interest and then £645-00 fee (charges of high court enforcemnet officer). I said hold on this fee is massive,dissproportionate and excessive. The guy said i don't care. Pay the £1800 or i wil take the car and charge you £1000 more.I said i don't have £1800 and i think this can be sorted out with a few phone calls. He said if you dont pay i wil take your car -you must pay. I said look the car was bought for £400-00 last year (i had a bad week last year where my van, car and pc(as i was printing out vans on autotrader)all died on me) and it probably worth only £200-0 now and would get £100 at auction. So £100 to increase the debt by £1000 plus auction cost-isn't that totally unreasonable and excessive-guess waht -he said -i don't care.

Anyway he was aggresive and menacing but i would not pay (could not) and he then isuued me with what he said was walking possesion and gave me a pink form with Removal of goods inventory on it and a description of the car.He signed it -i didn't. He left and said he would be back for the car.

 

I rang the comapny sherfoce. I got nowhere. I guy just repeated over and over i must pay or they would take the care and i would have a debt of £300-00 soon. There was no other solution. I did manage to get the IR solicitors Number.Rang them.Told them story.Told them i had had nothing since my dispute letter.Told them about the aggressive enforcement officer and the threats to take a worthless car and increase the bill by £1000-00.They said i could make a offer of payment dircct to them and in the meantime they would 'abort' sherforce immediateley.

After i had calmed down and had some support from a cag member I then started thinking that this enforcement officer had flashed his badge at me very quick -so i checked on the dept of constitutional affairs website where there is a list of Enforcement officers.He was not on it -Rang them -told them strory and asked if it was up to date as its dated jan 07. Got e-mail confirmation that it was up to date and he isn't a high court enforcement officer but his colleauge said that as long as the CO of he company was an enforcement officer then sherfoce could delegate. Sent them S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) on monday

Got a letter today (wendenesday) saying -Notice of seizure by high court sherriff -do not move etc from sherforce.Rang IR solicitors-they said they should not have done that.

Questions -1,Best way to get this guy and company if my facts are right about him not being a high court enforcement officer.2, I read somewhere that goods should not be taken unless they will redeem a reasonable value of the debt-Is the car situation reasonable if this is true.3The cost £645 for a visit -no letter first etc? Threat to take car and add another £1000-is this lawful -is it enrichment. I have been on the fee's section of the dept of con affairs and i can see nothing that corelates with these fees.

Hell -can i get them for anything-the guy was like a club bouncer with a nasty streak.

Thanks for you patience and help .My next book will be out shortly!

[TideTurner]

SomefriendlyUK,

 

I have had a similar problem.

 

I telephoned a company in Leeds who were supposedly acting for Companies House - same situation - £1000 fine for late records. They employ a "mate" who adds the additional fee, disguised as a court fee and collection fee.

 

I telephoned the solicitors acting for Companies House, and got a lady in a house in Yorkshire with little knowledge claiming "Yes it's due". Told her they had no chance of recovery, and that I would have the case I knew nothing about set aside.

 

I have heard nothing.

 

I will telephone Companies House tomorrow and ask for an update.

 

If somebody turns up at your property without an appointment, they are contravening Article 8 of the Human Rights Act - the 'Right to Privacy'.

 

Tell them to wait at the end of the path. If they're still there after 30 mins, phone the Police and have them removed.

 

Tide

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

Thank you tide, I'm not actualy going to dispute the debt from the inland revenue. Yes they did not use recored delivery for the letters and you would have thought with something of that importance they would but the orginal debt for cost was my own stupid fault even though the legal cost were excessive. I'm going to pay in installments of about £400-00 a month hopefully

 

Where i do have a problem is the Agesssive,bullying type of tactic this guy used-now i can look after myself but this guy was extremely hard work and i can imagine it would scare the s**t out of many -when i asked him things he just said 'don't care' or i don't have to answer.

 

I also have a problem with the fact he is not (as far a i can make out) a high court enforcement officer.-I'm just not sure where to start doing something about it.

 

I have a problem with a £650-00 charge for one visit without warning -there appears nothing in all the list of fees on the dept of constitutional affairs to justify this.

 

I have a problem with the threat of £1000-00 charge for taking the car.

 

I'm hoping the good people of Cag will have some Ideas where to start. All i have done so far is the SAR to sherforce.

 

Thanks

[tomtubby]

Have you pm'd HERBIE on this one as there is a lot about this on their website. Looking at the thread on cag with the title BAILIFF ADVICE ( an apology) from Herbie it looks like the site cannot be mentioned on here ???

 

Looked at their website today and the fees these people are allowed to charge are on there and they are apparently statutory charges that are government controlled. It even included details of where to address a complaint. Certainly looks like these charges are really excessive as the first figure can only be 5% on the first £ £100 and 2.50% on the remaining amount.

 

Their site mentions they can charge mileage at 29.2P but this is capped at £50. The reason why the fees these people can charge is so low is that they are paid by the creditor to collect the money from you.

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

hi thanks for that -i 'm not sure about PM ing people -just thought if they have the time they will help out -seems a bit rude. I have read herbie threads and answers and they do seem to know what they are talking about. I will wait and see if there are any more replies about how i go about this the right way. Thanks for the info-where the hell does £650-00 come from i wonder -do they just pick a figue out of the air? Never mind the £1000 All comments appreciated

[Saffronflowers]

SFU - you need to apply a really logical approach to this, take a breath and set a plan.

 

1) Phone the High Court and find out for definate if he is or is not a HCEO. If he is not ask them what to do and what your rights are. They should know what the charges should be. With this information call Sherforce armed with the correct information.

 

2) send them a SAR asking for information regarding the account cc it to the inland revenue and send by recorded delivery.

 

3) phone the Inland Revenue and ask them what they belevie to be the outstanding amount, and what their thoughts are on the matter, they are usually very helpful. Make it abundantently clear that you are willing to pay what you owe but not what you dont owe.

 

PM me if you need any further help

 

SFx

[KJD]

Inland Revenue seem to have set fees re late filing, payments etc. For example if you file your returns late it starts at £100.00, then £200.00 etc. Same with PAYE / NIC end of year returns, so it figures that there could be similar fees applied to o/s tax payments. Haven't got the info handy at the moment, but will look later and see if I can find the list of charges I was given (back in the 'dark' days!)

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

Thanks for that -I have already sent a SAR to sherforce and will wait ant see what comes of it. I have already spoken to the iR solicitors and have been told to send a payment plan in. The IR solicitors have stopped Sherforce for now.I have an email from someone in the dept of constitutional affairs saying the list he has is up to date and this guy is not a HCEO.

 

I will ring the high court and find out for certain and if so what i can do about it.

Does anyone know if he can do this without being a HCEO if he is working for or has been directed by sherforce who's directors are HCEO's ?

[TideTurner]

Sherforce are not a limited company. They will therefore have partners or be a sole trader, or be a limited company trading as sherforce to hide their identity.

 

It is difficult when you are put in a threatening position to think straight, but there are some basic rules.

 

If they are registered, they will carry ID. You should have a good look at this, and if in doubt, ask the person in attendance for their office number. Then phone it and confirm the reasons for their visit.

 

They are not allowed on your path without invitation without a warrant, at which point they will be accompanied by the Police, and the warrant will be issued by the Court, so send them off the premises until you've checked them out properly.

 

If you have a mobile with a camera on it, get a picture if possible, and if you've got the nerve, video the whole thing. Best weapon you have is photographic evidence.

 

I am astonished that IR have employed unregistered thugs, and I would telephone them and demand an explanation, including the name of the person who instructed them and a copy of the letter of instruction.

 

Then look at Article 8 of the Human Rights Act (Invasion of Privacy) and S.40 of the Administration of Justice Act (Harassment).

 

Demand the name of the person in attendance, particularly if you have children and family and these thugs are stepping above their remit.

 

Tide

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

Hello, thanks for that tide, I know who insructed them from the I R solicitors office. I hace spoke to him and he is the one who called them of. Before i got to speak with him i spoke with a colleauge of his and told hime first about the fees, threating to take a worthless car etc and he seemed quite neavouse about it, them same goes for the guy who insructed them. I get the feeling -and its only a feeling that they are quite close in some way.The same goes with the guy at the dept of constitutional affairs -he was quite neavy when i said if the guy who attended my property was not a HCEO then i would be going to Durham Police headquaters (not the local plod) and filing a serious complaint. His e-mail back to me(i had took his name) says he can confirm that the list on the net is up todate and the guy is NOT on it. However before i do anything i want to be doubly sure.

 

I know the fees are not right and i hope i can getthem on it. I think the threat of taking a car that would realise £100 is against the lord chancellors regulations and think the threat of taking it and charging another £1000-00 is wrong. I think this is because of laws regarding enrichment.

Anyway i have sent the SAR -I have rang the high court but can't get through so will try again today -any further ideas will be much appriciated

Thanks

[Saffronflowers]

Try and make it a priority to get through to the High Court as they can give you a definative answer, I think this person has done something that is soooooo wrong it is frightening.

 

Basically he is Impersonating a member of the High Court, I am think that would probably rank along side impersonating a police officer, especially as he is trying to extort money out of you in the name of one of the highest courts in the land.

 

Let us know how you get on

 

SFx

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

finaly got through to the high court -was first told they could not help but after much arguing got someone else -at first he said they have no data base but would check up -he rang somewhere and was told he was not on the data base -he then said he would ring somewhere else and came back and said yes he was an enforcement officer -when i asked where that info came from he said he rang sherforce-though i asked him not to.The dept con affairs did this also -as i said they all seem so close-

 

got another number to ring now -supposedly a complaint dept -You know this should not be this hard to find out if someone is telling the is a HCEO!!

Update-just got through to the number i was given and it says its John Marsden high court enforcement officers and we are closed for lunch-great-does anyone else get the feeling i'm getting the run around.

[Saffronflowers]

SFU - I have got a secret squirrel on the case, when I spoke to them this morning re my bits and peices and mentioned this he said that he would to find out the they did or they didn't who would hold the info and who the top kahoona would be to speak to - I am sure the middle temple are going to wonder why a QC specialising in marine law is suddenly interested in council tax and bailiffs and unpaid tax!!!

 

Will get back to you if find anything out but am off for a pint for my lunch! Love being self-employed!

 

SFx

[Guest lipupfatty]

why do you think he is a fake HCEO ? did he show you the writ ?

did he show you his i.d

[Guest lipupfatty]

ignore the above

[Saffronflowers]

This looks interesting - still waiting any response

 

The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

Hello thanks saffron-i have read them a few times and i think the -ie sherforce are in trouble about fees and conduct. I have today spoke to John marsdens HCEO-The high court gave me the number and i rang when they were closed and the message says they are HCEO themselves -it turns out that the John Marsden is the chairmen of the HCEO association and this association does investigate complaints and does have some teeth.

 

I liked the guy i spoke to. Although he obviously did not wish to comment on sherforce or the details of my complaint there was a loud laugh when i mentioned they were the company.

 

The laugh was louder when i told him the £650-00 fee -he asked what he debt was and i said 1000 -he said it should have been around £100 if the details i gave him were right. I also asked about the car -again he said at the level of value there was little point in taking it and charging 1000-00 to do it was completely out of order.

He said i must complain to the association. They seemed genuinely worried about this and seemed decent people -so for all the HCEO or bailiffs who are decent people on here who take loads of stick -i was very please with the help and service these gave me.

[Saffronflowers]

SMU - yup I just got this number as well - they weren't on lunch !- still trying to track a number at the High Court. I do have the name of and email of a press officer at the Ministry of Justice (dca as was) if that is any of use. I will PM it to you if you want.

 

SFx

[Saffronflowers]

Hehe - you probably have this one but if not

 

John Marston & Co

[Guest lipupfatty]

the hceo fees do seem to be very high but im sure they are correct, i think what the hceo was meaning when he said it would cost you a £1000 more ment when it goes to the secound enforcement stage you would have been charged a van fee of about £900 which would have been added to your bill

[SOMEFRIENDLYUK]

van fee of nine hundred pounds -thats a crime as well -its not fees its profits -and big ones. If the fee of £650-00 for a visit is correct could you show me where it is on the list of fee's on the lord chancelors website?

[fairblf]

Saffron

You should know better. The document you posted is way out of date. By guessing and pretending to know more than you do you are misleading posters on this forum and putting them at great risk.

[BLACK CAT]

Please Remember That There Is Always Two Sides To Every Incident. I Know That The Officer In Question Was Doing His Job Perfectly Legally. His Account Of What Happened Is Not Exactly The Same As Is Being Portrayed. The Defendant Was Given Time To Sort This Matter Out As The Officer Could Have Removed The Vehicle On That Day. No Mention Was Made Of Any Further Fees And The Officers Id And Writ Were Clearly Shown To The Defendant. He Was Simply Told That If He Hadnt Managed To Sort The Problem Out With The Inl Rev Or Made An Offer Of Payment By The Following Monday The Vehicle Would Be Removed. The Defendant Did Manage To Sort It Out With The Claimant So The Matter Was Resolved.

[MARTIN3030]

Can you confirm as to whether you are a Baliff or connected in any way to the business Black cat ?

[BLACK CAT]

Iam A Bailiff But Have Nothing To Do With Any Company Called Black Cat.