Halifax terms and conditions on ppi policy?

[maggie]

Took out a loan for 13,000 in 2001,ppi added.

Took out a second loan in 20004 for same amount ,that cleared the remaining balance on 2001,ppi added on to second loan in 2004.

20001 loan figures=

Cash loan 13.000

total charge for loan=3,037.40 total amount to pay=16,037.40

insurance loan=cash price=2,440.70/total charge for credit for ins. loan=570.10/total amount to pay for insurance loan=3,010.80

total loan=15,440.70 .total charge for credit for total loan=3,607.50.

total amount to pay=19,048.20

 

2004 loan figures

Cleared the outstanding amount of above loan

cash loan=13,000

total charge for credit for loan=2,893.40/total amount to pay for cash loan=15,893.40

insurance loan=2,760.91

total charge for credit for ins. loan=614.69 /total amount to be paid for ins.loan=3,375.60

total loan=15,760.91

total charge for credit for total loan=3,508.09

total amount to pay=19,269.90

 

When I rang the halifax and asked them for a copy of terms and conditions for both loans(once again), 3 days ago and asked if the terms and conditions on their online banking were the same,I was told that to request a loan on-line ,the terms and conditions were different than applying for loans in branch.we applied for both the above loans in our local branch in person,and I have telephoned the Halifax quite a few times to request the terms and conditions for both the 2001 and 2004 loans,but I have received nothing.

 

Does anyone have copies of these terms and conditions as when we were being interviewed for these loans,we were never asked of any medical conditions we might have,as I have been receiving DLA since 1989,and if my husband had to leave work and be my carer,I don,t think we would be liable to claim on the ppi.This is one of the conditions I read on-line on the Halifax site.Also,even though both of us had to sign for the loan,only my husband,s name is on the PPI ,only he would be able to claim .

 

Any help would be appreciated please.

 

Maggie

[maggie]

((((((Bump))))))

 

Maggie

[reidnet]

Hi Maggie,

I would tend to submit a CCR request and ask for a true copy of the original executed agreements, these should include the terms and conditions, as the PPI was a condition of the loan I would mention this and request that copies of the relvant Terms and Conditions are enclosed.

 

I would also advise to communicate with them regarding this matter in Writing Only, unless of course you have a way of recording any telephone conversations.

 

Ian

[maggie]

Thanks Reidnet.Where can I find a template letter of a ccr request please.

Maggie

[maggie]

bump.

[BaldyBaldwin]

any news??

[maggie]

No Baldybaldwin,

I have no idea how to work out what is owed.I think we were mis-sold the policies as I have been on disability living allowance for the previous 3 yrs before we took the loans out,and if my husband should finish work to become my carer,the policy(s) would be void as my illness is the same as before the loans were taken,it would be classed as a previous condition.

 

Maggie

[maggie]

forgot to say,none of this was explained to us when taking out the loan/s.

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

forgot to say,none of this was explained to us when taking out the loan/s.

Maggie

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Have you sent the cca request that reidnet suggested, if not do so to see what you actually signed for.

 

I would also send a full sar if you have not already done so. You need this information before you start the process of reclaiming back what the took from you:D

 

If you need help just ask.

[maggie]

Hi Hellhasno fury

I received a load of gobblydygook documents on both loans from my SAR request,(don,t understand a thing on them)but I haven,t sent for a CCA request on both loans.Will send for CCA this week.

 

Nightmarefor banks was helping me on the figures they sent me for both loans from my SAR, but I have heard nothing from him since I scanned in the documents and sent them to him thru e-mail.This was months ago.I am not very clued up on all this jargon they send you.

 

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasno fury

I received a load of gobblydygook documents on both loans from my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request,(don,t understand a thing on them)but I haven,t sent for a CCA request on both loans.Will send for CCA this week.

 

Nightmarefor banks was helping me on the figures they sent me for both loans from my SAR, but I have heard nothing from him since I scanned in the documents and sent them to him thru e-mail.This was months ago.I am not very clued up on all this jargon they send you.

 

Maggie

 

Hello Maggie,

 

I will help you if I can,

 

Right first things first,

 

Loan 1 What was the date of the loan start payment made, and how long did it run for. what was the interest rate applied to it.

 

loan 2 Was there any refund form the first loan ppi to the start of loan 2. what date did you start how long did it run for and the interest rate applied.

 

Please do send of for the copies of the credit agreement, Send them this letter with payment £1 for each agreement in the form of a postal order

 

Your address

 

their address

 

 

Dear ,

 

Re:- Loan Account No. xxxxxxxxxxx

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Speak soon:D

 

 

 

 

[maggie]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

 

Right,

1st loan =first payment taken on 22/11/01

payments made on it up to 11/03/04

Interest rate0.176% monthly interest rate

apr 8.9% annual percentage rate

 

 

I haven,t got a clue if there was any refund from the ppi from the 1st loan.it just states on the SAR documents I received----

 

we had a 3 month payment break to the start of the second loan

 

settlement date 22/12/03 11/03/04

total due-new loan required £9,226.69 £8,618.18

---------no new loan required £9,370.51 £8,751.38

last transaction detail_____24/11/03 24/02/04

as 22/11/03 as 23/02/04

£317.47 cr £317.47 cr

 

I have written this down exactly as it appears on the documents they sent me.this is for the 1st loan.

 

second loan taken out 11/03/2004 we are still paying the monthly figure of £321.15 which we will be paying until 10/05/09

 

interest rate applied=monthly=0.639%

 

annual percentage rate=7.9%

 

I hope you can understand this ,as I haven,t got a clue.I rang the Halifax up at the beginning of the year and asked if the PPI on the second loan could be cancelled,but they told me that a new loan would have to be taken out,plus they would add a £1000.00 on top.I was completely flumoxed ,so I put the phone down.

 

Maggie

[maggie]

I have the personal loan agreements in front of me as I type,with both our signatures on both credit agreements.

 

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

 

Right,

1st loan =first payment taken on 22/11/01

payments made on it up to 11/03/04

Interest rate0.176% monthly interest rate

apr 8.9% annual percentage rate

 

 

I haven,t got a clue if there was any refund from the ppi from the 1st loan.it just states on the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) documents I received----

 

we had a 3 month payment break to the start of the second loan

 

settlement date 22/12/03 11/03/04

total due-new loan required £9,226.69 £8,618.18

---------no new loan required £9,370.51 £8,751.38

last transaction detail_____24/11/03 24/02/04

as 22/11/03 as 23/02/04

£317.47 cr £317.47 cr

 

I have written this down exactly as it appears on the documents they sent me.this is for the 1st loan.

 

second loan taken out 11/03/2004 we are still paying the monthly figure of £321.15 which we will be paying until 10/05/09

 

interest rate applied=monthly=0.639%

 

annual percentage rate=7.9%

 

I hope you can understand this ,as I haven,t got a clue.I rang the Halifax up at the beginning of the year and asked if the PPI on the second loan could be cancelled,but they told me that a new loan would have to be taken out,plus they would add a £1000.00 on top.I was completely flumoxed ,so I put the phone down.

 

Maggie

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Please have a read of this link and reconsider asking them again to cancel and refund you:D

 

Consumers to benefit from PPI refunds agreement

 

I will look at your figures a bit later if thats ok, I'm a bit busy at the mo.

 

I have worked on the pretext of asking for what they have taken in ppi and interest and then charged interest at the contractual rate. Now if you had a refund, let them argue that one, they will soon come back and correct the final figures. There is no rush to get the refund, slowly, slowly catch the monkey

[maggie]

Ohhh Thank you very,very much Hellhasnofury,

I will have a good study of the thread above.

 

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

I have the personal loan agreements in front of me as I type,with both our signatures on both credit agreements.

 

Maggie

 

MMMMmmmmhhh interest, but do they:eek:

[maggie]

Hi Hellhasno fury

 

Sorry to be a pain,but any idea on how much/if I am entitled to reclaim on both PPI,S

 

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasno fury

 

Sorry to be a pain,but any idea on how much/if I am entitled to reclaim on both PPI,S

 

Maggie

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Working out these figures is no mean feat, as I am not a banker or an accountant. You will need to check them out for accuracy

 

Right I have used the vampress spreadsheet, maybe have a bash yourself.

 

First loan

 

ppi with interest £3,010.80

with contractual interest at 7.9% till 24/4/2004 £576.06

Total £3,586.86

Deduct refund £317.47

Total £3,269.29

Contractual interest from 24/4/2004 to today is £842.78

The total to claim for is £4,112.17. This is the total ppi(including the refund) and asking for contractual interest of 7.9%

 

Second Loan

 

ppi with interest £3,375.60

Contractual interest at 7,9% from 11/3/2004 to today is £870.16

Total amount to be claimed £4,245.76

 

Come back if you don't understand:-D

[maggie]

Sorry to sound so dumb Hellhasnofury,

but all these apr,s and contractual interest fuddle my brain.

So you mean the end figure you have calaculated on each loan,are the ones I should inform them I am entitled a refund of.

What I am concerned about,is exactly how would I word the letters requesting these amounts to be refunded?

Thanks for calculating them for me,and as for me using the spreadsheet,God knows what figures I would come up with.

Ha!Ha!

[hellhasnofury]

Sorry to sound so dumb Hellhasnofury,

but all these apr,s and contractual interest fuddle my brain.

So you mean the end figure you have calaculated on each loan,are the ones I should inform them I am entitled a refund of.

What I am concerned about,is exactly how would I word the letters requesting these amounts to be refunded?

Thanks for calculating them for me,and as for me using the spreadsheet,God knows what figures I would come up with.

Ha!Ha!

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Your not dumb, When I started on the site I know absolutely nothing and did not know how to work out all of the figures, especially do a spreadsheet. You have to try and if you get stuck you ask.

 

Right lets try and explain it a bit better.

 

On the first loan, you paid for the ppi and they charged you interest on both a 7.9%. I have calculated the total figures in bold as the amount that you are asking to be refunded.

 

This total figure includes contractual interest. This means that because they took you money, it meant that you did not have the benefit of using it for your own needs. So you are requesting interest on this back at their own rate. This is what contractual interest. Interest as to the contract that they have with you. They charged 7.9%, so you are well within your rights to ask for this. The interest allowed by the Courts is 8%. This is called Statuatory interest.

 

This one is a bit tricky because I had to calculate the daily 7.9% interest from the date the loan started, then deduct the refund they gave you and then calculate the daily 7.9% interest from then to the present date.

 

The second loan is pretty straightforward and the total is in bold.

 

Now as for a prelim letter

 

Maybe use this one I sent to the Natwest, but amend it to you own details:-D

 

Maybe post you final draft on the thread, or if you want to pm I can have a look before you send it.

 

Dear Sir or Madam

Loan Account no: xxxxxxxx

I write in response to my recent Subject Access Request dated 14th January 2007. I thank you for your information. After reading the information it has now come to my attention, that the loan account no 43851126, which I took out on the 4th April 2001 had payment protection insurance applied to it. the loan was for £xxxx plus £xxxx charge for credit/ interest. The payment protection insurance was calculated by yourselves at £xxxxx. Total amount of money payable £xxxxx over years and I would assume unless otherwise directed by yourselves that 8,9% interest on the ppi of £4,600 was included into the interest applied to this loan. The insurance policy no of the payment protection insurance is xxxx. I have never received any policy or terms and conditions regarding this policy. I have received this information from the SAR you have recently sent to me

I am extremely disappointed that your company have conveniently failed to locate any copies of Contracts regarding the loan. I feel this statement hard to believe that you cannot locate these documents and by law under the data Protection Act 1998 and the Limitation Act of 1980 you must supply me with this information. There was another loan running prior to the above loan which I have also request information about. I shall be reporting this matter to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

When I took the loan with your company, I was not given offered a full and detailed explanation of payment protection insurance and was lead to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of the loan. I have thought that for the last five years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the Subject Access Request. Regarding the loan with the ppi applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led and have been mis-sold this expensive insurance that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was enduring financial difficulties and being my main bank account of this you were well aware. I am frankly shocked that you have operated my loan account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

 

Firstly, I understand that at the time I entered into the loan contract with you your bank was running an incentive scheme to encourage your employees to sell PPI schemes, as were several other High Street banks. This information was posted on a public website in September last year:

 

 

SECRET documents leaked from two major banks show how bosses get their staff to sell big loans and the profitable insurance policies that go with them Commission tables for the RBOS and NatWest reveal a score system in which bank workers amass disproportionally more points for selling larger loans and for those sold with insurance - sparking fears that inappropriate products are being pushed

.

In-branch customer service advisers are able to earn a quarterly bonus of £1,200 if they consistently reach a weekly target of about 2,700 points over three months and if their branch also reaches its three-monthly target. Staff earn 30 points if they sell a customer a personal loan of between £3,000 and £4,999, but they earn 90 points if the loan is sold with payment protection insurance - the controversial cover that is supposed to pay out if a borrower loses their income.

 

I was not aware of this and even if it is untrue, I consider that there was a clear conflict of interest between your fiduciary responsibilities to me and the direct selling by your employees of PPI schemes, given the very large profit margins they generate.

 

When I took the loan/loans with your company, I was not offered a full and detailed explanation of payment protection insurance and was led to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of the loan. I have thought that for the last five years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the Subject Access Request of the 14th January 2007.

Regarding the loans with the ppi applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led by your company at a time when I was facing financial difficulties and have been mis-sold this expensive insurances that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was in full-time employment with no risk of redundancy ,a fully paid salary for 6months of sickness, had a generous life insurance and critical illness insurance policies.

 

No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it at all. No inquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment. I was not given a copy of the insurance policy nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, your duty of care.

 

Secondly, I understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment, that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.

 

You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged me further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.

 

Finally I believe insurance contracts are contracts uberrimae fidei (contracts of the utmost good faith) which imposes on you a “duty of disclosure of all material facts because one party is in a strong position to know the truth.” Inter alia, I believe that you should have disclosed to me that the type of policy you sold me, a single payment premium, did not give a pro-rata refund in event of early settlement. I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

 

What I require

 

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

 

The original premium was £xxxxx added to the loan amount on the 4th April 2001. I presume that interest at 8.9% was added to this amount.(unless you can inform me otherwise). Interest £xxxxx Total amount £xxxx. The Statutory 8% interest (S69 of the County Court Act) allowed by the Courts will amount to £xxxxx Making the total amount payable at the Court Stage £xxxxxxx.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I am writing to ask you to refund the premium paid together with interest equal to your APR at the time under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive this payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[maggie]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

 

So sorry I have not got back to you sooner.

I was just wondering if I can include one of the reasons you have listed above i.e.;

 

The PPI was added to the total credit ,then we were charged further interest on the premuim,on top of the interest for the loan.

Based on the figures I have written above,exactly as it is on the agreement form,would I be able to include this in my request for a rebate.

There are a few reasons I am going to state that we were wrongly sold the PPI,can I include them all?

 

maggie

[hellhasnofury]

Hi Hellhasnofury,

 

So sorry I have not got back to you sooner.

I was just wondering if I can include one of the reasons you have listed above i.e.;

 

The PPI was added to the total credit ,then we were charged further interest on the premuim,on top of the interest for the loan.

Based on the figures I have written above,exactly as it is on the agreement form,would I be able to include this in my request for a rebate.

There are a few reasons I am going to state that we were wrongly sold the PPI,can I include them all?

 

maggie

 

Hello Maggie,

 

Sorry been away for a few days.

 

What are you reasons for mis-selling???

[maggie]

We were not informed of any exclusions that would void the ppi,example ,if my husband were to leave work to become my carer,the ppi would not be paid out ,as my condition is a pre-existing one,we were not told that we could purchase cheaper cover elsewhere,they didn,t ask if the ppi was suitable to us ,no questions were asked if we had any pre-existing medical conditions,my husband was/ is in full time employment with no risk of redundancy,nor did they ask if we had pre-existing insurance cover.My husband has a generous life insurance ,we both had to sign for the loans ,but we were not told that only my husband was covered for the ppi.We have never received any policies from both loans.On the second loan taken in 2004,my husband has been suffering with stomach problems for years before,but again we werent asked if he/we had any pre-exisitng medical conditions,and if he were to leave work to become my carer,the ppi ,once again ,would be void,due to my pre-existing medical conditons.

 

I don,t know if the following applies to the loans,as I don,t quite understand it.=the costs of the ppi are part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.

Based on the figures for both loans I have posted above,I have no idea if this was applied,and I don,t know if we were given a rebate from the ppi on the 1st loan,when we took out the second loan in 2004.

 

Sorry if I haven,t explained myself properly,and I seem muddled,as I am totally confused with all this PPI.

 

Thank you for your help Hellhasnofury.I really appreciate it .

 

Maggie

[maggie]

I posted a letter yesterday ,to the manager at our local branch,by recorded delivery,requesting the terms and conditions of both loans.

Hopefully they won,t be too long in responding.

 

Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

I posted a letter yesterday ,to the manager at our local branch,by recorded delivery,requesting the terms and conditions of both loans.

Hopefully they won,t be too long in responding.

 

Maggie

 

Corr was that a flying pig I just saw:o

 

Oop sorry Maggie, couldn't help myself, fingers crossed they will be responding soon:D

 

Keep us posted:D