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Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)


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Hi everybody. This is my first post.

I have been following this forum for some weeks since I had my "enforcement notice" sent to me in the post from the gatwick airport trap.

Thanks for all the advice.

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My friend has had a new development in her case with CEL, two months ago they sent a final demand for £120 otherwise they would take her to court. Now today she's received a demand for a debt collection agency on behalf of CEL for £208.

 

Therein lies a clue.....Two months ago they were prepared to go to Court. They are obviously so sure of their legal position that instead of doing so they now try a different tactic. If right were on their side then they would just proceed to legal action rather than involve additional time and expense. You can write a response for as many times as they are prepared to threaten - ultimately they will realise that they are onto a loser!

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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Hi there, This is my first post.

 

I've been using the advice given to fight CEL with three letters stating as regestered keeper not liable etc. They replied with the usual already mentioned. On Tuesday I got the final demand before legal action. So since this is my first time fighting people like this just getting a little cold feet. So just wondered if anyone knows if there has every actually been a court case?

 

It was encouraging to read the post above but still a little nervous since a legal friend of mine has suggested that if it goes to court the judge might take the view that on the balance of probability I was driving and award the case to CEL.

 

Any thoughts would be useful

 

Ta

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Hy everyone.

 

I also seem to have fallen foul of CFL. I received a PCN at the end of October for an alledged offence back in August. I had droppedoff a friend at Gatwick and had actually asked for directions to the nearest BP (I was a mistaken supporter).

 

I filled up, bought a newsaper, cup of coffee and a sandwich from the forecourt. I sat the whole time in my car to consume the purchases and then left.

 

The PCN states that I now owe them £100 (£50 if paid earlier). I wrote to CFL explaining my dismay and received a dismissal letter which seems to be produced by cutting and pasting sentances from previous letters. I have now wrote to BP retail customer care team (is there such an animal?) and await there reply. I have since received a final demand. T

 

he problem is compunded by my being in a company car (the registered keeper) and dispite writing to CFL from my home address they keep sending correspondance to my work.

 

I inetend to fight all the way at any court proceedings, but am also willing to raise this issue with any vessel possible. I intend contyacting trading standards, the office of fair trading, BBC Watchdog and all local newspapers.

 

Can anyone offer advise?

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Brisar,

 

This is a very long thread, but if you follow all of it you will see that you are far from being on your own, hundreds of people have been caught out at the Gatwick forecourt & Mcdonalds. [see also Pepipoo forum]

 

Interestingly enough, despite threats of debt collectors and legal action, CEL have not actually followed through on anyone that we can see. Your case is a little complicated by the company car aspect. You will have to watch that the company don't simply pay the "fine" and pass it on to you. For small companies where you know the individuals involved, the solution is very simple.

 

"The company is the registered keeper of company cars. We do not divulge driver details to non official sources for obvious reasons."

 

My instinct would be to keep on ignoring them, they will lose interest and seek easier prey.

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Creativesolution

 

Perhaps you can answer your own question?

On 22nd September you posted the following:

 

Has anyone actually been taken to court by CEL?

 

My friend recently received a final reminder basically saying pay up in 7 days or we're taking you to court blah blah blah. I've read the advice...

 

Did CEL carry through this threat, or did things go quiet?

 

Noticed thread about Debt Collection Agency - just reply to them, when they write to your friend, stating that debt is in dispute.

 

If CEL were as sure as the Lady at OFT, they would have issued Court Proceedings by now - against your friend and hundreds of others. It is a fact that they have not.

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I've just spoken to Consumer Direct part of the OFT and according to the lady I spoke to said CEL are able to charge.

 

That is true - CEL are perfectly entitled to charge - in the same way as you are perfectly entitled to try to charge a Jehovas Witness, political canvasser or Trick or Treat caller for remaining on your property. You (or the Jehovas Witness, political canvasser or Trick or Treat caller) are on the other hand equally entitled to refuse to pay on the grounds that you made no such agreement to give them the money and to invite them to seek legal action if they believe otherwise.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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hi creativesolution, sidewinder,

where you are parked legally in a carpark, the carpark owner can chagre wherein and provided his prices are displayed, what he cannot do (legally) invoke a parking penalty disguised as a charge which is what CEL are doing. The question has been asked numerous times, have they taken anyone to Court, I am not aware of anyone being taken to Court, and the reason is simple, a penalty is not enforceable in Consumer Contract law. Read the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs 1999, including the indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms, and use them in your correspondence. (ps pay particular attention to section 5, unfair terms)

When you enter a McDonalds or a BP garage, you are trading as a consumer, no contract deed exists only an implied contract. You did not negiotiate terms, therein the unfair regulation apply, and it is for you to inform CEL of that fact.

Please note also, that CEL are unable to supply any statute or case law citation on which they can rely, (as far as I am aware, there are none.) If some existed, they would quote them. It is for that reason they engage in psychological harassment with rehashed letters and court threats.

 

Read the 'sticky' and absorb the info, then make notes from the postings and you will be equipped to take on CEL. In replying to them, be icily polite and omit your phone number, it saves hassle from phone calls. hope this helps.

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Dear All,

 

I found this site after searching for the Civil Enforcement ltd. I have just received a notification from them saying that I owe them money for an offence on the 6th October. Aparently this first warning is also my final warning. I apparently now have to pay them £120. There are no details of where this offence occurred so that I can contest it. Also the number on the notice is an automated system which just seems to want my payment details. Should I trust these people everything about the operation suggests [problem]. What should I do? Thanks

u07adl

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Just to keep everything in the loop, I have received my first letter from cel stating that I have had my chance to pay and that the fine is the full ammount. I am responding with the default letter as below. I'll let you all know what they say.....as if we don't know already! :)

 

 

Dear Sirs,

Re: Your letter XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Your Reference No. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I acknowledge receipt of your captioned letter, also please be aware that this is the first and only letter that I have received from you regarding this matter.

I am the owner of the vehicle in question. You need to take this matter up with the driver concerned.

 

If your allegation is that I was the driver then please produce evidence of this to substantiate your claim. If your allegation is that I as the owner of the vehicle am responsible, then please cite the relevant case and/or statute law.

 

In the meantime I absolutely deny your claim that the amount claimed or any amount at all is due to you and in the absence of the above evidence and/or citations will not be prepared to enter into any further correspondence with you.

 

Yours faithfully

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Aka,

 

Nothing wrong with the letter, but we all know the routine by now. Very very short odds on the reply from them being a bland:

 

"your appeal has been rejected"

 

The appeal process consists of a PPC owner deciding whether he should pay himself £120 or not - DOH!

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I do not expect to receive a letter from them saying that it is cancelled, I have read all the posts and I know the routine that this will probably take. All I want to do is document my case all the way through so that we can all see how everyone else gets on. I am sure that thre have been people on this forum that hve received a joyfull outcome of these sh*ts but they no longer post here to let us all know. Why would they? Iwill continue to post here at every stage right upto the point of victory. Nothing wrong with that is there???

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aka,

 

was not being critical for a minute, sorry if I conveyed that impression. I fully agree that the more we communicate with each other, the stronger we become and equally, the more pathetic we make these [problematic] look.

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Hi Guys

 

Thanks for all the addvice. Between your postings I wrote to the BP Retail Customer Care Team and outlined my case. I also stated that I intended to defend rigourously any subsequent court proceedings, and would be notifying BBC Watch Dog, OFT, Trading Standards and all local newspapers (in addition to web postings).

 

Coincidentally I received a letter from CEL stating that the notice had been cancelled.

 

Once again thanks for all your help and perhaps we should start a boycott of BP filling stations at Gatwick?

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Check the thread - as you have disputed the fine McDonoughts should not have passed it to a third party. Write to the Debt agency, explain that you are n dispute and that they should return it to their clients.

 

Also explain to the debt agency that as the case has not been to court it has not been established that the debt exists for them to attempt recovery.

 

As soon as I can scan the letters in I will post here.

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Hello

 

I have previously written on this website asking for advise regarding a fine recieved from Civil Enforcement LTd (I have included a copy below).

 

I replied to the company with the recommended response (thank you !) - which basically said that I denied entering into a contract with the client, they had no legal standing, they'd not replied to my origional letter, and not to bother me again! I have since had a reply -

 

----------

 

(They've not bothered to write my name)

 

We are in recipt of your letter dated 12.11.2007.

We have considered the matters raised, but regret to advise that we are unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice.

In response to specific issues raised in your letter we would respond as follows :-

Our clients provide parking facilities for the short term use of customers. They have expereinced severe problems with unautorised parking in their car park, resulting in vehicles being parked for long periods of time and occupiying valuable spaces. (its a free car park) There are many clear and visable signs displayed on the site advising drivers of the regulations in force.

 

The charge that has been levied is clearly stated on the sinage around the site. Furthermore, it falls wthin the governments recommended guildelines for car park enforcement on private property. (i note they've used the words gvernement guidelines.. not law!)

 

Please refere to your first response letter sent 24/09/2007. This clearly answers our questions regarding ble badge holders. ( I have recieved no such letter)

 

The PCN remains valid at the ticket was correctly issued in accordance with the terms and conditions stated. Payment must therefore be made without delay.

 

However, in view of our correspondence, we have extended the time allowence for you to pay at the origional reduced charge by a further 7 days... blah blah.... send a cheque.. blah blah...

 

In the event that payment is not recieved we will have no optin but to issue proceedings against you in the county court, to recover the amounts due to us. We will add our additional costs, interest and fees to cliam.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Squiggly ****ty 'signature' from a 4 year old - (No name)

Representations Team

 

----------------

 

So, i called the number, left a message stating that Id not recieved a letter that they believe the had sent me on 24/09 and please could they reissue me with the letter. also, that Id sought legal advise and will not be paying the fine as they have no legal standing. I also asked them to call me if they wished to discuss it further.

 

Someone called me on Monday, said 'we have receved your message..' and didnt say anyting else! So, i explained that Id not got their letter dates 24/9 she reckons shes not allowed to issue me another letter but if i write to them they'll send me a copy! I explained that ive since been back to the site and their was nothing on the warning signs that stated that blue badge holders are not valid.. She actually said to me, if I send a copy of the blue badge, with another letter explaining that the badge had been on the car all the time then it will 'help my case'.

 

So ive taken some pictures of the card, and need to write t them, again.

 

If nayone has any advise as to how I should word this Iw ould REALY appreciate your help. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello

I am also new to this site, and have read a number of stories similar ish to mine, so, like the previous person i'll try to keep it short.

 

I recieved a letter from Civil Enforcement LTD stating that I had gone 16 minutes over the 2 hours allowed at Richmond, North Yorks Co-op carpark, and therefore had to pay £90 or £45 for the pleasure.

 

I had been in the co-op all the time, due to helping my disabled mother with her shopping. Their is also a clothes shop within the same building which we looked in, hence being so long. All the time we were in the shop my mothers disabled badge was clearly visabe on my wind screen.

 

I tried calling civil enforcement ltd to talk to someone to explain the situation. a message on their answer machine said they would return the call within 24 hours. three days later someone called and left me a message basically reading the letter they had sent to me, and saying i could pay over the phone if I wished.

 

I wrote to them, explained about the disabled badge, and that it allows us up to three hours parking and therefore I would not be paying the fine. i included the ref. number and all info from the disabled badge. I also stated that if they wished to further this matter I would seek legal advise. This was about a month ago, and I had recieved no responce until today. They have not even acknowledged my letter, but stated that I now owe them £90 and have 7 days to pay or they will send debt collectors, and I could have trouble in future obtaining credit.

 

Any advice anyone has would be appreciated.

 

 

Cheers! Charlie

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