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Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)


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I wouldn't be too worried, I've sent two recorded delivery replies and will not be bothering with them again...espeiclaly as they denied all knowledge of the first letter!

 

So long as you have replied to send them back to their masters I think you'll be fine.

 

Hopefully someone else will confirm as I'm only a learner!

 

wrinx

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If they already have the information that is contained in the letter then there is probably not much point as they will not respond. On the other hand if this goes to court then it looks better for you if you have proof you have sent the letter and they have not responded!

You certainly have nothing to lose by sending it though. Apart from the postage costs that is!

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On the other hand if this goes to court then it looks better for you if you have proof you have sent the letter and they have not responded!

You certainly have nothing to lose by sending it though. Apart from the postage costs that is!

 

Here's a nice little sting for these people. If it does go to court and they lose (as they surely will) you have grounds for a counterclaim to get your costs reimbursed. So make sure you keep your receipts for sending recorded delivery.

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Quote by SideWinder: I wholeheartedly agree with the advice from Barnsley Boy. This appears to be the latest letter from the threatomatic and is designed with the sole purpose of making you believe that you are about to be hauled into court to be told that all of your worldly possessions will be sold. For all the legal accuracy it contains I am surprised that they didn't go the whole hog and tell you that you would be seeing in the new year in a cell with your new special friend Bubba.

 

Newlyn are basically a firm of bailiffs, and are using threatening behaviour to force payment. As BB says, bailiff action may only follow a successful civil action followed by continued refusal to pay - IF the claimant is able to convince the Court that he is entitled to the money. In the unlikely event that they are daft enough to proceed, then (from Post #203) is your defence and would almost certainly fatally flaw their case.

 

Spot on SW

 

How would any Judge be able to find in favour of a parking company who cannot even decide how long they allow people to park before charging them?

 

Fact - you noticed no sign which invited you to agree to pay a charge.

 

This suggests you were in attendance - I would exclude anything which shows you have any knowledge that you haven't read on this site.

 

Fact - on receiving an invoice in the post you stated this in writing.

 

Unless you read it here (or have knowledge) you should deny all parts and knowledge of their claim.

 

Fact - you wondered how you could have missed this and sought evidence that such a sign and condition exists.

 

Were you there?

 

Fact - the signs on which basis you are expected to agree to a contract are not clear in stating that a charge will apply.

 

Did you hear this on the internet?

 

Fact - the signs state that you have 75 minutes free parking yet by their own documentation they are trying to invoice you for staying only 61 minutes.

 

Having attended afterwards as you were so alarmed with their claims, or did you hear this from others on the internet?

 

I am neither a Judge nor a lawyer, but I could well imagine that based on this they could never prove their case against you. And that is without even having to argue that the charge represents a penalty and is therefore unenforceable

 

The 'charge' falls under contract law, and as no contract exists between the PPC and the driver, or the landowner / driver, any claim is unenforceable.

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Hi Sidewinder, Thank you for your Posting 300

 

Reading the CEL profile was a revelation to me. CEL are a far more sinister organisation than I had ever imagined and goes way beyond the simplefied atmosphere of chasing a parking over-stay violation. With the battery of sneak services available to them, the provision of driver identity should be easy- peasy, but no, they intentionally elect to not to provide the driver identity to the registered keeper, but subscribe to quoting the much-alligned Principles of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

This is a farsical situation, and makes a mockery of the Data Protection Act with so many subtifuge trade name companies having access to your data, no one knows where your 'personal information' is stored or for what purpose.

 

I was of the opinion and understood that CEL were acting on behalf of McDonald's, and only those two companies were those ones with access to my personal data. Now, with the discovery of Creative Car Park and Newlyn and God knows who else are sharing my personal data, this behaviour I believe, is a violation of the Data Protection Act in-so-far it limits this 'free wheeling' of data from one company to another by limiting the behaviour of Data Controllers to engage in such activity.

 

This clandestine operations of CEL suggest that they are monitoring behaviour of motorists and their vehicles. This begs the question,? why, and why would McDonalds want to monitor my behaviour, I'm a vegetarion and have no interest in eating meat or burgers.

 

The more I discover about CEL the more angry and determined I become. I have no connection whatsoever with Creative Car Park, Mc'Donalds, CEL or Newlyn's for that matter, but the fact that they hold and monitor my 'personal data' without any permissions to do so is a step to far. So bring on the County Court ligitation, and lets find out exactly how many subtefuge companies are monitoring my personal data.

 

I would assume that within the Traffic Guard system as operated by CEL, given that they hold no allegiance to personal data protection, free exchange of information is practiced between clientele. I beg the question, is anyone aware of existing case law on this subject.

 

Lastly, a few questions arose about printers not being available for letters, write your letters by hand, and make copies ( by hand if necessary) and send them off and get 'proof of postage'. Should the matter go to Court, the Courts are not looking for fancy writing, only integrity.

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Strange turn of events today. I received a letter from CEL informing me that they were sorry i hadn't paid, and will offer me a chance to pay at the reduced rate. I had written to newlyn and CEL, advising both to cease contact and that any further word will be passed to my solicitor. Now they've both contacted me....for different amounts!

 

Just to clarify, it's now almost 2008, and their attempts to make me pay their fictional invoice have now lasted over 6 months. Now they're offering me another chance to pay the reduced rate? Shambolic.

 

Oh, i won't be of course. I wouldn't even trust them to process any payment correctly, judging by evidence from this forum.

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I haven't posted on here for a while, but used to quite a bit in regards to bank charges etc.

However, back to the point :)

 

I received a Parking Contravention Enforcement Notice from CIL in the post today. The offence is the vehicle breached the limited free stay allowence at Maccy D's , Gatwick on 24th Nov 07 ( from 14:58:00 to 16:17:00 ). Fine is £125 or £75 if paid within 14 days.

 

The interesting point about this one, is that at 11.00am that morning, i actually sold the car in question. So the chances are that the offence took place, but even though my name was down as being ' the keeper of the vehicle ' ( makes it sound like something out of Lord of the Rings :D ), i was no longer the owner.

I also sent all the relevant paperwork to DVLA that day.

What should be fun for them is that the person i sold it to was from Portugal, and the car was being driven back there ... and it arrived on Tuesday 27th Nov.

 

I'm going to be writing them a letter and getting it sent registered so i know it gets there, on Monday, and we'll see what happens.

 

 

Daz

 

Hopefully you'll find this helpful. My girlfriend received a PCN from CEL for a parking offence also committed on November 24th 2007 at McD's, Gatwick Drive Thru for staying 1hr 2mins.

 

She was sure the signs displayed in the car park stated a 75 minutes free stay, so we drove back to the car park to check the signs, involving a round trip of 72 miles.

 

Sure enough she was correct, (as if I ever doubted her). The many signs displayed all stipulated 75 minutes free stay, but reading on, the company responsible for enforcing the parking restrictions was operated by MET Parking Services Ltd, London EC1.

 

As this sign contradicted the PCN received from CEL, I spoke to the Duty Manager at McD's Gatwick who confirmed that the McD's Gatwick contract with CEL ceased at 23.59 on November 23rd 2007, and the new signs for the new operator, MET parking, were put up at that time, replacing CEL's signs.

 

Consequently, I wrote a letter to CEL pointing out the error, and have today received the standard reply from CEL, with the added line, 'The parking terms have since changed - but your ticket was correctly issued and remains valid.'

 

After originally writing to CEL, I also phoned McD's and MET Parking Services customer services to see if both would confirm the exact changeover time and date of parking restrictions at McD's Gatwick. MET parking confirmed what the duty manager had said was correct, but McD's would only confirm it was around that time. However they did phone back later to confirm that they were cancelling the PCN from CEL.

 

Today we also received a letter from McD's who confirmed this in writing, along with £15 in vouchers. No apology though!

 

So, we have received 2 letters today, one from McD's confirming the cancellation of this PCN and the other from CEL confirming we still have to pay the PCN or proceedings will be issued.

 

I feel a Court case looming against CEL if we receive any more threats from them.

 

Anyway, McD's customer services phone No is 0208 700 7000 incase you want to contact them to try and get them to cancel your PCN, but I can't guarantee you won't be hearing from CEL again.

 

You never know, you might even get some vouchers if you're into McD's.

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Hello this company are real crooks I know of several people who use the houghton le spring co-op car park who have been sent letters with generic we have photographic evidence letter sent to them.

This includes myself and my girlfriends mum I didnt pay it but had to send witness statements and a doctors note (this was just to make sure).:p

They claimed I had been parked in their car park for 6 hours !!!

I only live 2 mins from car park so that's ridiculous !!

Half the problem with the camera set up for the car park is that you can go out the in way so camera registers car going in but if you go back on yourself you miss the exit camera.

Plus I think that is not always the case they are just trying to make fast buck out of people who are scared when they get a letter from these people they should be some sort of ombudsman that checks on these people!!!

rant over but beware people everywhere!!!:eek:

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Hello

I have good news.. I won!

 

I stood my ground, informed them that as I had had a disabled badge on my screen I was not paying their stupid fine. Also, as advised on here, I included that what they were doing amounted to Psychological Harassment, that they did not issue anything on the supposed offending vehicle, which is part of their agreement with the DVLA bah blah.. I also put, "I'm sure the OFT would be keen to hear how your 'business' operates".

 

Unfortunately the letter that I sent to them is only on my work PC and mI' at home this week. If anyone would like to read it though I could post it next week.

 

 

I received a letter two weeks later saying, 'We refer to recent communications with this office in respect of the Parking Contravention Enforcement Notice. We now confirm that the notice has been cancelled'

 

 

(ding ding, 1 - 0 to me!! )

 

 

Thank you to the guy who sent me the super good reply.. Im sorry, I forgot your screen name, if you're ever up North I owe u a pint!

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Happy New Year...from Newlyn!

 

Received a "NOTICE OF COURT ACTION" which I am quite appalled with.

 

They apparantly have no alternative but to pass my file back to their client, which is strangely exactly what I told them to do :lol:

 

The title, in large letters, clearly states this is a notice of court action which if course it isn't!

 

What a disgusting way to conduct a "business", by lying and trying to frighten people, they of course offer me another seven days to pay...quite scary when you consider this has been going on for SEVEN months now :roll:.

 

I'm having nothing more to do with this disgusting debt recovery agency :mad:

 

Bring it on CEL!

 

wrinx

 

EDIT: Incidentally, drove past the site of the alledged offence the other day and it no longer has a business operating on it, but the camera is still there! I'm almost tempted to start parking there just to wind them up :lol:

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Hello

I have good news.. I won!

 

I stood my ground, informed them that as I had had a disabled badge on my screen I was not paying their stupid fine. Also, as advised on here, I included that what they were doing amounted to Psychological Harassment, that they did not issue anything on the supposed offending vehicle, which is part of their agreement with the DVLA bah blah.. I also put, "I'm sure the OFT would be keen to hear how your 'business' operates".

 

I received a letter two weeks later saying, 'We refer to recent communications with this office in respect of the Parking Contravention Enforcement Notice. We now confirm that the notice has been cancelled'

 

(ding ding, 1 - 0 to me!! )

 

Thank you to the guy who sent me the super good reply.. Im sorry, I forgot your screen name, if you're ever up North I owe u a pint!

 

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Good news for you Charlie 23, The senseable way to defeat these leeches is to remind them of the standards to which they must adhere if they wish to conduct business.

 

I'm not resident in the North, the air up there is much to rereified, I much prefer the quiet byways and hyways of the Kent @ Sussex Downs. Albeit I'll take you up on a few Guiness if your down this neck of the woods, best regards feralcat2.

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I much prefer the quiet byways and hyways of the Kent @ Sussex Downs.

 

Which look a little bleak this afternoon ;-)

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Happy new year to all.....except you know who! ;)

 

 

I have received a letter from CEL recently (not registered post) saying that they have spent enough time on my case and that the matter is being passed on to the debt collectors. In light of recent posts is it best to just ignore it any any further letters or should i reply, if so what is the best response to this notice of impending doom!

 

Ps. has anyone got the postal address of Mc Donalds Customer Service Dept?

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Happy new year to all.....except you know who! ;)

 

 

I have received a letter from CEL recently (not registered post) saying that they have spent enough time on my case and that the matter is being passed on to the debt collectors. In light of recent posts is it best to just ignore it any any further letters or should i reply, if so what is the best response to this notice of impending doom!

 

Ps. has anyone got the postal address of Mc Donalds Customer Service Dept?

 

Remember that you will want to appear to have been reasonable and have been seen to try and get the matter resolved in the unlikely event that this ever comes to court.

 

I would send a letter back to them reminding them the debt is disputed.

 

Tell them that they are welcome to incur the costs of passing to a debt collection agency but that you will be advising the DCA that the debt is disputed and that OFT guidelines will oblige the DCA to pass the matter back to them.

 

I would also be inclined to put in a "put up or shut up" line in.

 

Something along the lines of providing any evidence and relevant case law that proves that you the debt. If they can't they should cease and desist all communication with you. (see the template stickies for appropriate wording).

 

If you have already sent a cease and desist letter already then just file for your harassment case.

 

Send your letter registered post and keep the receipt. If you come to court either on harassment or on the parking matter you should be able to reclaim your costs.

 

At this point in the absence of them providing any "evidence" of the debt or a court summons, you can safely ignore any further communication. Do keep it on file though.

 

If you get a letter or phone call from a DCA then advise them the debt is disputed and they should refer back to the client. Make sure you keep a record of any phone calls from a DCA or copies of any letters received. If you want to bring a harassment claim it will strengthen your case. Alternately it will be more evidence of unreasonable behavior if CEL ever take you to court

 

PS

Mcdonalds Customer Services Hotline: cb_transparent_l.gifgb.gifspace.gifspace.gifarrow.gifspace.gifspace.gifspace.gifspace.gifspace.gifspace.gifspace.gif08705 244622cb_transparent_r.gif

By Post:

McDonald's Restaurants Ltd.

11-59 High road,

East Finchley,

London N2 8AW

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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Good evening everybody.

 

Are you sitting comfortably? ...then i'll begin...

 

Today i have received a further letter from Newlyn, stating the following (apologies for not attaching it. I don't know how to!)...

 

********************************************************

 

NOTICE OF COURT ACTION

 

We have no record of receiving your payment despite our previous correspondence and now have no alternative but to pass the file back to our Client, who will then proceed with any necessary action.

 

We would like to offer you one final opportunity to settle the outstanding amount prior to us returning it back to our Client.

 

Unless we hear from you in the next SEVEN days with regard to paying your outstanding arrears your file will be returned to out Client for them to process for court action.

THIS MAY RESULT IN ADDITIONAL COST TO YOU AND CONSIDERABLY INCREASE THE AMOUNT OWED.

 

To avoid any further action contact us on 01604 633001 immediately to discuss payment

 

******************************************************

 

 

Once again, though supported i am by the comments and suggestions from this fantastic forum, it doesn't stop me from being very concerned.

 

If anyone has any specific information or pointers from here, your help, as ever, would be very much appreciated.

 

Thankyou.

Hi Lilo72

I too have received the exact same letter in today's post. So you are not on your own, am just going to ignore it, my husband wants his day in court with these s**t heads! United we stand, divided we fall!

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Yes, that's the same letter I received...despite being given seven days to respond from 02/01/08 I've received ANOTHER letter today, dated 04/01/08 which has made me even more enraged!

 

It is titled "RESPONE REQUIRED" or it will result in "further recovery action being taken and a certified bailiff will be instructed to call at your premises".

 

Is my house considered a "premises"...thought it was a "residence"...anyway, more hollow threats of bailiffs to hoodwink the less wary.

 

Something really needs to be done about these horrendous extortionists and their scare tactics! :(

 

EDIT: Just noticed an anomoly, this letter states "Council Ref: *******" which is the same as my "Customer Reference" on other letters, perhaps that explains the "premises" wording. but they tried the personal touch this time by signing it "Kevin McCarthy"....:roll:

 

wrinx

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Can anyone explain why CEL and other such parking "companies" are still trading if they are failing to abide by the DVLA's code of conduct, sending threatening letters with implied legal status etc...

 

Personally, I've made complaints to Trading Standards, the OFT and the Police. I'm certain many many others will have made complaints as well but still it would appear the authorities are turning a blind eye to such matters.

 

Or is it simply a case of the Government are making money out of this so are in no hurry to put a stop to it?

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Don't won't to get too political but the "government" [not that much difference between the parties when they are actually in power] has been increasingly against the freedom of the individual over the past few decades. It is only the courts and the House of Lords which have served to preserve civil liberties throughout this time.

 

The DVLA's code for Private Parking Companies, granting access to their database probably does reflect Establishment preferences. It is only the separation of judiciary and state and the fact that no new legislation has been put in place which preserves the current position.

 

Legislation regarding Private Parking must be pretty far down the list of Government priorties. Were it to reviewed, the chances are that the position would get worse for individual motorists, not better.

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Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 3438 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

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