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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Civil Enforcement Ltd (again!)


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I'm acting on behalf of my friend, so it's whatever I decided to but yes I'll let you know gladly.

 

The last letter I sent Newlyn I requested them to hand back the file to CEL as the debt was in dispute. So if that's what Newlyn do I guess it's a partial victory in a sense.

 

CEL have threatened court action several times in their letters but never gone through with it, the chances are they wont issue court proceedings when the file is handed back to them (or at least that's what I'm hoping).

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Another one here....received a letter denying any reply from me to their first letter. But I sent it registered posts and the Royal Mail website says it was delivered the day before the second letter was typed.

 

I've just phoned them to find out why I've had this letter, true to form they denied receiving in.

 

Interestingly they asked for my telephone number, which was refused (more harassment opportunities?) and when I reinforced the debt was in dispute they demanded to know why and were persistent with the demands. I refused to give details saying I was in dispute with CEL, not Newlyn.

 

I then politely put the phone down :lol:

 

I'm now going to back this up with another registered letter so they can no longer deny I've had contact...and any further contact will result in a harassment complaint.

 

wrinx

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Well guys, recieved another letter from CEL today stating 'cessation of correspondence' and that file will be sent to a debt collector. This is the second letter in 5 days, the first was a replica of an earlier letter.

 

They apparently don't much like to know, that their dispite is with the driver and not the Registered Keeper, and that the R.K. has no contractual relations with them or their client. It will be fun to see what the debt collectors say given that I have already told CEL that they will breach the OFT code of practice if they pass-on my details to a third party. I have callanged CEL to take me to court, and nothing has transpired to date.

Passing-on my file to a debt collector is harrassment, and recognised as harassment by the OFT code of practice, given that CEL have not made any effort to substantiate any evidence in support of the charges demanded whilst the alleged debt is disputed. Secondly, given the debt is a penalty, the case for harassment (be it psychological or agressive) can be heard within the Civil Courts. Thus, any of you legal eagles want to hone your skills.

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Good evening comrades! I have just received the second leter from CEL saying that I have been given another 7 days to pay a the reduced rate. I saed that Ionly ever received a final demand so hat is their reason for the extended period.

I have a had a read through he post again but I cannot seem to find the best letter to send back to CEL (also with so much advice pouring into this forum everyday I thought that maybe there would be a revised response that would be beter to send

 

Has anyone ever requested he "photographic proof" and sent them £10?? Does it exist?

 

It seems that the press are all over this now, was even on Have i got news for you tonight.

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I've now received three love letters from CEL demanding £90/£45 for an alleged overstay of 10 mins over the 3 hours of free parking offered by a Co-op supermarket to store & 'other town centre users'.

 

With the great advice & information offered by contributors to this, and I must say other sites, I feel supremely confident in taking on these toerags all the way. My thanks go to you all.

 

I'm in a pretty strong position in as much that I can so easily prove I wasn't at the scene of this alleged horrendeous crime at any time on the day in question, so even in the unlikely event this matter ever got to court, I'm sure the judge would not be best pleased in having the courts time wasted & throw the case out in milliseconds.

 

So 'bring it on' CEL, Newlyn,- get that bladder problem sorted and either p*ss or get off the potty and stop conning & harassing me & other good people with your little scheme.

 

I've complained to the DVLA about their divulging my personal details to a private company and requested they inform me to whom exactly they made the disclosure (NB - I didn't mention CEL at this time)

 

I quickly received a lengthy reply, loads of blurb....DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act.. blah blah.... Regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 2002 .......

requires DVLA to release information..blah blah....to anyone who can demonstrate 'reasonable cause'...blah....etc etc.

 

The interesting and curious thing is they disclosed my details to the aptly named Creative Car Park Ltd (Huh???). They only gave me the name of the company & no other details.

 

Needless to say, I swiftly emailed back requiring full details of this company and full details of their original application to the DVLA, being information to which I am perfectly entitled.

I have also asked them to explain how & why as a consequence of their disclosure to Creative Car Park Ltd my details have found their way into the hands of CEL, a company with a track record of alleged dubious and unscrupulous methods of operation.

Despite 3 reminders, I am still awaiting a reply.

I would like to think that the delay in replying is due to someone at the DVLA having developed a sudden problem with their sphincter muscle.

 

I have lots more to tell you, but will save it for another day and keep you posted with developments.

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Hi Wrinx, in response to you request at posting 256,

The OFT Code of Practice at Section 2.6 (i), states (Physical/ Psychological Harassment) (quote)Examples of unfair practices are,.

 

"Disclosing or threating to disclose debt details to a third party unless legally entitled to do so." (end of quote)

 

Every letter I sent to CEL I have disputed the alleged parking charge (debt), in that I am the registered keeper, not the driver. and that no contractual relations whatsoever exist between Mcdonalds, CEL or any other principal landowner and myself in respect to the gatwick site. Given the debt is disputed, CEL have no legal authority to pass-on the debt to anyone, insofar as their charge has not been 'legally proven' to be a legally enforceable debt.

 

CEL have threatened litigation against me in their correspondence, That means, in regard to the OFT code, that the only people they can pass the file-on to are their lawyers for actioning. I have challanged them to take legal action, but they ignore all reasonable requests for evidence of the alledged debt (as you well know.)

Lastly , the OFT Code of Practice i(IE debt colection guidance) is a free download from the OFT website. or give them a call and they will give you details.....

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Well guys, recieved another letter from CEL today stating 'cessation of correspondence' and that file will be sent to a debt collector. This is the second letter in 5 days, the first was a replica of an earlier letter.

 

They apparently don't much like to know, that their dispite is with the driver and not the Registered Keeper, and that the R.K. has no contractual relations with them or their client. It will be fun to see what the debt collectors say given that I have already told CEL that they will breach the OFT code of practice if they pass-on my details to a third party. I have callanged CEL to take me to court, and nothing has transpired to date.

Passing-on my file to a debt collector is harrassment, and recognised as harassment by the OFT code of practice, given that CEL have not made any effort to substantiate any evidence in support of the charges demanded whilst the alleged debt is disputed. Secondly, given the debt is a penalty, the case for harassment (be it psychological or agressive) can be heard within the Civil Courts. Thus, any of you legal eagles want to hone your skills.

 

Feralcat,

 

I agree with what you say, but to add a bit of value, and as there is no contract in place:-

 

Unless you provide your express permission (or sign a contract and fail to exclude any terms allowing a third party to do so), CEL are acting illegally if they pass your information to any third party.

 

They have a duty to keep your information securely, and must not divulge it unless for legal reasons (and national security, Police etc)

 

If they process personal data they must be registered with the Information Commissioners Office. If not they should be reported, complaint form here

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints/data_protection.aspx

 

ICO Helpline: Our helpline is open between the hours of 9.00am and 5.00pm, Monday to Friday.

08456 30 60 60

01625 54 57 45

Fax: 01625 524510

 

The Information Commissioner's Office

Wycliffe House

Water Lane

Wilmslow

Cheshire

SK9 5AF

 

They can only keep the information for a period necessary for the purposes it was provided.

 

As you have not signed a contract, I would question their ability to obtain your information in the first place, and I will be contacting the DVLA in the morning and telling them they must not make my personal information available to anybody except the security services and police:mad: :mad: .

 

I would write to CEL and insist they provide confirmation that they have ceased to store or process my personal information in the next 14 days, else, you will report them to the ICO, OFT, DVLA and the Police (harrassment falls under criminal not civil law).

 

Vehicle Record Enquiries,

Vehicle Customer Services,

(Data Protection Queries),

DVLA,

Swansea

SA99 1AJ

 

quote your full name, address and the registration number of your vehicle

 

From experience, the only way to get the ICO or the OFT to listen is by sheer volume of complaints.

 

Good Luck

 

Tide

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Another point here,

 

If you have mistakingly given them your telephone number in the past, or they have obtained it, they cannot discuss your case with you unless you answer a 'security question' such as what is the first line of your address, postcode or DOB etc.

 

You should NEVER provide this info over the phone, therefore, they cannot discuss your case with you.

 

When you write to them, tell them all communication should be in writing.

 

Tide

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I've just thought, now Newlyn are apparently passing back the file to CEL to action court proceedings. Surely proceedings are now more likely to happen given CEL enlisted the services of Newlyn to chase the "debt" and as a result Newlyn will be charging CEL for their services. Therefore would it be right to think CEL will try to recover this cost?

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Has anyone ever requested he "photographic proof" and sent them £10?? Does it exist?

 

Requested twice but not by paying the tenner, that's just taking the EDITED...paying to incriminate oneself???

 

wrinx

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Hi Wrinx, in response to you request at posting 256,

The OFT Code of Practice at Section 2.6 (i), states (Physical/ Psychological Harassment) (quote)Examples of unfair practices are,.

 

"Disclosing or threating to disclose debt details to a third party unless legally entitled to do so." (end of quote)

 

Every letter I sent to CEL I have disputed the alleged parking charge (debt), in that I am the registered keeper, not the driver. and that no contractual relations whatsoever exist between Mcdonalds, CEL or any other principal landowner and myself in respect to the gatwick site. Given the debt is disputed, CEL have no legal authority to pass-on the debt to anyone, insofar as their charge has not been 'legally proven' to be a legally enforceable debt.

 

CEL have threatened litigation against me in their correspondence, That means, in regard to the OFT code, that the only people they can pass the file-on to are their lawyers for actioning. I have challanged them to take legal action, but they ignore all reasonable requests for evidence of the alledged debt (as you well know.)

Lastly , the OFT Code of Practice i(IE debt colection guidance) is a free download from the OFT website. or give them a call and they will give you details.....

 

Excellent, thank you. Some good information on this thread :D

 

wrinx

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I've just thought, now Newlyn are apparently passing back the file to CEL to action court proceedings. Surely proceedings are now more likely to happen given CEL enlisted the services of Newlyn to chase the "debt" and as a result Newlyn will be charging CEL for their services. Therefore would it be right to think CEL will try to recover this cost?

 

Yes, under normal circumstances, where the "debt" is far more certain, this is exactly what would happen. This is not the case with CEL / Newlyn - they know the "debt" is well dodgy based on dubious contract law. Any case, properly defended would cost them money and they would lose. Look at the hundreds of postings and thousands of viewings about CEL gatwick on this and other forums. If CEL were successfully prosecuting people we would have heard of it by now.

 

CEL would much prefer the present situation whereby say 50% of the punters pay up without a murmer rather than risk the whole [problem] with a few well publicised court defeats.

 

What will probably happen, if the course follows form is that Newlyn will write yet another letter giving a final opportunity to pay. It is nothing less than harrassment and should be reported as such.

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If you can, let me know what action they take and how they get on.

I'm still deciding whether to send any kind of response at all.

I think we should all send the same letter on the same day.

That should confuse them!

 

In all seriousness though, i'm still open to help and advice on this one.

 

 

Hi all, I have also got the same letter as Wrinx, creativesolution (friend) and Lilo. Passing back the file to our client. They will take court action.

 

I intend to do absoluetly nothing and wait for the court procedings from CEL. Which i think will never happen.

I would love to have my day in court and put asleep this cash cow of a harrassing bussinrss that they are running.

 

Please CEL bring on the date in court soon.

 

Keep up this joint effort.

All the best

Hatari

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I've just thought, now Newlyn are apparently passing back the file to CEL to action court proceedings. Surely proceedings are now more likely to happen given CEL enlisted the services of Newlyn to chase the "debt" and as a result Newlyn will be charging CEL for their services. Therefore would it be right to think CEL will try to recover this cost?

 

In the majority of cases, DCA's are paid on a commission basis and are paid a percentage of what they recover. Some of the bigger ones will "purchase" the debt at a much reduced rate and then try to recover what they can., although this has become much less fashionable since sites like this popped up and people started fighting back.

 

CEL would do well to cut their losses and concentrate on the frail, easily intimidated little old ladies of this world.

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My friend has received a two page letter from CEL replying to a letter I sent them some four weeks ago, stating why they believe the parking ticket is valid and how they are registered with various different bodies etc...

 

Finally they have offered her to the opportunity to pay with the original amount of the ticket, in this case £60. Against all advice she has decided to pay this amount and in her opinion have done with it once and for all.

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My friend has received a two page letter from CEL replying to a letter I sent them some four weeks ago, stating why they believe the parking ticket is valid and how they are registered with various different bodies etc...

 

Finally they have offered her to the opportunity to pay with the original amount of the ticket, in this case £60. Against all advice she has decided to pay this amount and in her opinion have done with it once and for all.

 

We are all individuals but...... I can't help feeling that paying these guys is immoral, it will only encourage them.

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That's a shame as it reads like they were beginning to crumble.

 

wrinx

 

Having now read the letter I thought it was CEL's last throw of the dice before giving up.

 

Obviously I've expressed this to my friend but she's had enough and wants it sorted once and for all. In fairness to her, she's under an extreme amount of pressure with work and personal things so in the end something had to give.

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Well i'll add my latest letter to the pile. The standard "Our records show you havent paid, we need this payment from you, failure to do so will result in court action" etc..followed with another chance to pay.

 

Court action? with absolutely no case...good luck. I'll see them in court.

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