MBNA, CCA received 5 mths after request! Requests for payment and threats aswell

[Fullyskinted]

OK, I submitted the following letter way back on 2/1/07.

 

Mr Matthew McGrath

Customer Assistance Department

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Stansfield House

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9QQ

 

2nd January 2007

 

My Ref: MBNA xxx

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request / Consumer Credit Act Request.

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Mr McGrath,

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation for the last six years (up to and including todays date please). Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you (MBNA) normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

My full details are as follows:

 

Name: Fully SKinted

D.O.B.: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Once again, I require all account details for the term January 2000 up to and including December 2006.

 

Additionally, with reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the original credit agreement that was signed by me when the account was opened.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77 through 79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

 

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not.

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days of receipt of this letter (sent recorded delivery).

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fully Skinted

 

Enc,

Cheque for £1

Cheque for £10

 

I then recieved a two paragraph response from Steve Bailey (Head of Customer Advocate Office) saying that this:

 

We thank you for your recent communication. We are currently investigating your complaint and will provide you with a full response by 6/2/07.

In the meantime, should you have any quesries, blah blah blah....

 

I should at this point highlight that towards the end of 2006 (Sept on maybe) I had some money issues. Some payments fell behind, MBNA being one of them. I have in my possession at this very moment the statement for Aug 06 to Dec 06 but not NOv's so I cant check, but looking at the data recieved by MBNA (charges sheets) I didnt make a payment via Direct Debit (returned unpaid) for November or December.

I thought it would come out as a DD in Jan, as I had enouigh to pay the arears to pay them off by now, but it didnt.

I then recieved this letter...

 

 

Obviously I was a little concerned! So I rang them. They explained to me that as I had missed two consecutive DD payments, the DD is automatically cancelled. Ahh. I see!

 

So I sent them this letter:

 

Patricia Bassil Poole

Head of Customer Assistance

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Stansfield House

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9QQ

 

24th January 2007

 

My Ref: MBNA XXX

Consumer Credit Act Request.

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Ms Brassil Poole,

 

I am today in receipt of your letter dated 19th January 2007 regarding the account being in arrears. I have had a telephone call from a call centre in Asia (judging by the accent!) requesting that I make the payments to the account to make it in order. I made it clear to the advisor on the phone that the account was in dispute. She advised that I contact customer services. I called the number on the letter received today (0800 028 0687). I then explained the situation to the advisor (an English centre). She said she was aware that the account had notes on it, but that there were not any notes of the account being in dispute. I think I must refresh your memory…

Please see my letter ref ‘MBNA xxx’ regarding the request for CCA documents. As of 21st January MBNA had not complied with the original request for documentation on 2nd January 2007. You are in default of my request.

As such, now that the 12 working days have expired (from your receipt of the request for the agreement and supporting documents) the account is now in dispute.

Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (21st January 2007)

 

 

 

I attach a copy of the CCA Section 78 for your viewing.

 

 

However, as the account was in arrears prior to the 21st January 2007, I enclose a cheque for the outstanding amount of £xxx.xx. This cheque payment will bring my account up to date, but as I say, I consider the account to be in dispute from 21st January 2007 until I receive a true copy of the original credit agreement. So as of 21st January 2007 the account is considered ‘held’.

I will reiterate from my letter of 2nd January 2007-01-24:- ” I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.”

If I am not in receipt of the true copies by the 21st February, you have committed a criminal offence and the relevant authorities will be notified.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fully Skinted

 

Enc,

Copy of Consumer Credit Act 1974, Section 78

 

So now, as far as Im concerned, Im all up to date. No more asking me for money until they produce the suitable documantation that we all have come to know by now...

Or so you'd think!

A DD went out early February... On the February statement I can see the following:

 

Payment by Chq - Thank You £1 Cr

Payment by Chq - Thank You £10 Cr

Payment by Chq - Thank You ££XXX.XX Cr (which is the Chq for the arrears)

Payment by Direct Debot - Thank You £XXX.XX (Minimum payment from Jans statement

Payment Protection COver £44.11

Interest CHarged £XXX.XX

 

Err, hang on a minute!?!?!?! Well, thats what I thought when I got the mail open that day!!! WHY were they takign payments? I had failed two consecutieve DDs so (as I was informed) they dhouldnt be taking any money by DD anymore. WHY was interest being added? I thought, oh, its probably up to the 21st Jan.... Thats why. Maybe Ill give them the benefit of the doubt this time... I cancelled the DD with the bank so that no more monies were taken...

 

Then I recieved a letter dated 8/3/07:

 

 

This really got my boat. The CA request date came and expired on 23/2/07.

 

So early March I sent them this letter:

 

Patricia Bassil Poole

Head of Customer Assistance

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Stansfield House

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9QQ

 

13th March 2007

 

My Ref: MBNA XXX

Failure to comply with CCA 1974 Section 77-78 Request

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Dear Ms Brassil Poole,

I have a letter dated 8th March 2007 from Kathryn Hand stating that the direct debit was unable to be processed.

The request for the true signed copy of the original agreement has now long expired. You have defaulted the request and committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974, Section 78

I attach a copy for your reference. I draw your attention to subsection (1) and (6) which apply in this instance.

The offences mentioned in the CCA carries a £2500 fine and /or a three month prison sentence.

The account is now in dispute following MBNA’s failure to supply me with the requested information (after 2+ 12 working days) and you (MBNA) have now defaulted. In this situation where the account is in dispute no interest is to be added to the account and no payments are to be requested

To my knowledge on the basis of the CCA request alone you have now committed four separate offences. Firstly, once the full timescale has expired you have committed an offence. Each request for payment is an offence – one whilst the account was in dispute after you failed to provide me with the requested information after 12 days + 2 working days notice and the following when you had requested payment after the 12 + 2 working days + one calendar month. I am including the adding of interest to the account within these offences. I noted that you collected a payment via direct debit on 2nd February 2007 when you were a) not entitled to it as the account was in dispute and b) you had previously stated that the Direct Debit payment method had been cancelled due to two consecutive failures of this method late last year (automatic cancellation). Following this, I went to the bank and cancelled the direct debit for MBNA to ensure no further monies were taken. You requested the money as per the usual Direct Debit procedure on 2nd March 2007 but it was rejected. I then received Ms Hands letter with a request for payment which is ANOTHER offence. I make that four cases of offence now.

I have given MBNA more than enough time to comply with the CCA request, the timescales of which fully expired on 23rd February 2007.

Since then I have come into the knowledge that you have been committing further offences on the account. Section 85 of the CCA 1974. Again, I attach the relevant sections.

It would appear that the account has been unenforceable since you sent me my first replacement card. As within this section it clearly states that you would send me a copy of my agreement (in full) each and every time that a new card is issued. . I forget how many times I have received new cards without the correct and proper documentation. By rights (as per the CCA Sec 85) I shouldn’t have been paying interest on the account or any payments since my first card renewal!

I am now in no doubt that MBNA have little respect for the law and the CCA 1974 along with its content. I have no choice but to inform the relevant authorities of the way that I have been treated and the way in which MBNA are running their (very profitable) business.

The account is in dispute and until MBNA supply me with the information which I am lawfully entitled to under the CCA 1974

Whilst the account is in dispute and unenforceable no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (24th January 2007).”

 

Please refrain from calling me on the telephone. I will not discuss any aspect with you and will consider any other action as harassment and an offence under the Telecommunications Act.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fully SKinted

 

Enc

CCA 1974 Section 78

CCA 1974 Section 85

 

 

Throughout this ENTIRE perios I was hassled mornign noon and night by Global Vantedge on the phone which appeared to be a DCA chasing the arears. A letter arrived too dated 2/4/07. I cannot lay my hands on the letter at the moment, but it implied that if the arears were not paid a default would be registered. Repeatedly I just put the phone down sayign stop hassling me, the accts in dispute, MBNA know whats going on, DONT YOU? etc

This didnt appear to work, so I got on the phone to MBNA. They said that they hadnt recieved ANY of the letters I spoke of which had been sent to Ms Brassil Poole!!! SO I asked to be put thorugh to one of the many contacts I had by this stage. Conveniently, NONE of them were in the office! SO I asked for an Email address, to which I was given one 'Joanne Johnson'. Email went like this....

 

Dear Ms Johnson,

 

I have been passed this email address and contact name after speaking to Nicola in the complaints department.

 

Can you please read the content of the letters which I have previously sent but not had a suitable response to from you.

 

I am today in receipt of a letter dated 2nd April 2007 from ‘Global Vantedge’. It appears to be a debt collection agency.

 

I do not appreciate this and see it as a threatening response by you.

 

Please contact them asap and explain the situation that you have instructed them in error.

 

Regards,

 

Fully Skinted

along with EVERY letter and docment attachment Id sent to them...

 

On 12th April I got this:

 

Dear Fully Skinted,

 

Please accept our appologies for the delay in responding to you; however, our investigations are takign longer than anticipated. We will provide you with a repsonse within 28 days.

 

Should you need further info blah blah blah...

 

Then I got this letter late April, early May....:

 

 

The phone was sill ringing all the time, so on 14th May I rang MBNA to see WTF was going on... I spoke to a girl called Natalie. I asked what was happening and she said that a response was coming with a reason why they couldnt.... and it went dead. She then asked me to hang on..... and then she came back a few mins later with 'We will be sending a final response and the Copy of the CCA today'. I was a bit miffed to say the least...

 

And then it arrived....

 

 

 

 

I havent heard a peep from them since, but a Non Payment has been posted on my Credit file

 

I need to pop out now so will post again later. Thoguhts anyone??? Does it all look in order from my part? Any more ideas? Does the CCA Copy look OK to you? What about the stuff they says about my letter to them????

 

Thank sin advance....

 

[pudsters14]

Are there any terms and conds on the back of this?

 

Looks like there are prescribed terms missing so would think it is unenforceable.... but i'm quite new to it all.... and as u can see from my thread ther are differing views about how a credit agreement should be set out etc.

 

Have you put a link on the main CCA n MBNA threads... there's some cracking ppl on ther that will give you great advice.

 

My letters are different to urs tho. I'm not at home atm but will try and scan and post them 2mrw.

 

The application form looks very similar to the one they sent me,but an older version... u know i don't think these are enforceable, i've said this on my thread but the reason they have prescribed terms is so that you are drawn to them and they are ther for you to see, plain and clear. They are not meant to be over the page or in another doc and if they are then ur attention should be drawn to it within the financial particulars on the main doc. As i said earlier, if that was the case they could print a 15 page document with a whole manner of different clauses and you would never be able to pick out the prescribed terms... especially as we are just normal ppl... we don't know what we are looking for...obviously until we found this site!

 

Have a look on my thread at the advice i got given (i know u may have already) and i'll post you a link 2mrw to some other advice i got re my application form.

 

Check ur barclaycard one too... does it have the prescribed terms?

 

Thanx, and i apologise if i don't make much sense as i'm veeeerrry tired... had a busy day! lol...

 

Rant officially over!

 

Pudsters14

x x x x x x

[jezzyjet]

hi there i think you might find that to be a fully executed agreement it also needs to show a credit limit or loan amount which as it is an application form it wont have jezzy

[Peterbard]

HI

 

If this is a true copy of your signed agreement say thank you and point out it is unenforceable as it does not comply with section60(1) of the act and is therfore improperly executed as per section 65.

Section 127(3) says that any agreement not complying with section 65 is unenforceable. you will be making no further payments etc.

 

Best regards

Petr

[Fullyskinted]

Peter, I have now read the relevant sections and see what you are saying more clearly.

 

Would you like this case for your BIG letter at all??? Ive tried to make the dates as clear as possible.

 

And one other thing, seeing as Ms Brassil Poole didnt appear to get any of my letters, should I cover a letter to her aswell?

 

Luckliy enough I have Ms Johnsons email address, so I will email it over aswell as send a recorde copy

 

Ill start drafting the letter today

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

Yes of cours the letter is being posted last post theis evening if yu want to look at it and put your details in the same form i wiol add them to the finished product my e-mail is [email protected],

 

Best regards

Petre

[Josie8]

Are MBNA really above the law to this extent .................its unbelievable that the OFT and Trading Standards won't or can't do anything about it- wonder if it could come under malfeasance in public office i.e. they have the powers but won't use them

[redsue]

fullyskinted et al

Do you think it may be worth PMing either Bankfodder or Dave to see if any of their contacts in the financial press may be interested to hear what's going on with MBNA?

I'm writing letters to them till I'm blue in the face, plus the OFT, TS and the FO and all the while I'm getting bombarded with calls and text from GVA.

They do really believe they are above the law as they don't have to answer to anyone it seems.

[Josie8]

Totally agree - its not just isolated incidents - something needs to be done

[Fullyskinted]

I have drafted the following letter. Can you all please comment on it for me. Thanks in advance. FS

 

Ms Joanne Johnson

Customer Advocate Office manager

Customer Advocate Office

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

13th June 2007

 

My Ref: MBNA xxx

 

Failure to comply with CCA 1974 Section 77-78 Request

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 4129840611881019

 

Dear Ms Johnson

I am in receipt of your letter dated 9th May 2007. I apologise for the delay in responding but I have had some personal issues to deal with in the mean time.

There are a few things I should like to make clear to you.

Firstly I thank you for your copy of the agreement. It is unenforceable as it does not comply with section 60(1) of the act and is therefore improperly executed as per section 65.

Section 127(3) says that any agreement not complying with section 65 is unenforceable. I will not be making any further payments.

May I suggest that in future you carry out a little research into exactly what the CCA contains in its content and what the consumers’ rights are. I do not feel that I should have to tell you what a suitable response to a CCA Sec 78 request should be. Suffice to say that yours does not meet it will do. I have supplied the relevant sections for your viewing on at least two occasions.

I will try and work through the remainder of your letter as best I can.

The request for the true signed copy of the original agreement (Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974, Section 78) was submitted to yourselves on 2nd Jan 2007.

The account was then in dispute following MBNA’s failure to supply the requested information (after 2+ 12 working days) and you (MBNA) defaulted. In this situation where the account is in dispute the ‘agreement’ remains unenforceable,. This is all clearly stated in the CCA. You are not entitled to enforce the agreement. Which means that everything that the agreement consists of (adding interest, requesting payment and (in the event of arrears/non payment) employing Debt Collection Agencies for collection of the debt and also placing adverse history on my credit file.

Once the further calendar month had expired, you (MBNA) had then committed an offence which is punishable with a fine determined by the courts.

You must excuse my naivety with some of the previous letters. I am after all a mere consumer reading and interpreting the CCA with help and advice from fellow consumers on the Consumer Action Group. So I apologise if there were errors in my previous communications.

You state in your letter, “Direct Debit payments were collected from your account in February and March 2007 in accordance with the mandate opened on 29th February 2000. This instruction was not automatically cancelled late last year (it is evident from your statements that payments continued to be collected), nor were two consecutive payments rejected by your bank.”

I find this particularly amusing. How did I know about the ruling of the two consecutive payments automatically cancelling the Direct Debit Mandate you may ask? Because MBNA informed me early 2007 when I had a call from the arrears department regarding the amount owed from late 2006. I suggest you look more closely at the statements. Yes, the payments went out according to the statements, but on the following months statements the words ‘UNPAID DIRECT DEBIT’ and ‘RETURNED PAYMENT FEE’ (with a £12 charge I might add) are inserted, as well as the interest charged for that month etc which indicate that payment was sought, but did not reach yourselves due to insufficient funds in my bank account. As you will note from my letter of 24th Jan 2007 to Ms Brassil Poole when I wrote the following:

“I am today in receipt of your letter dated 19th January 2007 regarding the account being in arrears. I have had a telephone call from a call centre in Asia (judging by the accent!) requesting that I make the payments to the account to make it in order. I made it clear to the advisor on the phone that the account was in dispute. She advised that I contact customer services. I called the number on the letter received today (0800 028 0687). I then explained the situation to the advisor (an English centre). She said she was aware that the account had notes on it, but that there were not any notes of the account being in dispute. I think I must refresh your memory…”

It continues…

“However, as the account was in arrears prior to the 21st January 2007, I enclose a cheque for the outstanding amount of £xxx.xx. This cheque payment will bring my account up to date, but as I say, I consider the account to be in dispute from 21st January 2007 until I receive a true copy of the original credit agreement.”

The amount I made the cheque out for was for the arrears on the account. If the Direct Debits had gone out as you state then the account would not have been in arrears!

The application form you have sent me a copy of has a signature box signed by myself dated 14th March 1998. So it would appear that the direct debit was not set up at that time.

By the end of January the account was in dispute. As stated, whilst in dispute you are not permitted to enforce the agreement. So naturally, I assumed that MBNA being the huge reputable company that it is would have prior knowledge of this and was amazed when the payment of £xxx.xx was taken from direct debit from my bank account on 2nd February 2007.

As I said in my letter dated 13th March 2007, “I noted that you collected a payment via direct debit on 2nd February 2007 when you were a) not entitled to it as the account was in dispute and b) you had previously stated that the Direct Debit payment method had been cancelled due to two consecutive failures of this method late last year (automatic cancellation). Following this, I went to the bank and cancelled the direct debit for MBNA to ensure no further monies were taken.”

You state in your letter about the Direct Debit Terms and Conditions and the fact that the payee is to give at least 5 working days notice in advance of of intention to cancel the payment due date. I notified you on 2nd January 2007 that if you did not meet the CCA request criteria within 14 working days no more payments were to be requested from myself. I think that is more than ample notice.

 

Requesting payments is an offence. Please do not request any further monies.

 

I have been threatened with Collection Agency action if I do not pay the ‘arrears’. This action is an offence. Please refrain from such action.

 

I note from my Credit File (via Experian) that you have placed a ‘missed payment’ on my file. Again, this is not permitted whilst the CCA request is not satisfied. It is an offence. Can I request that you have this removed at your earliest convenience and refrain from placing any others on my file.

 

I have given MBNA more than enough time to comply with the CCA request, the timescales of which fully expired on 23rd February 2007.

 

As I stated in my letter of 13th March 2007, “I am now in no doubt that MBNA have little respect for the law and the CCA 1974 along with its content. I have no choice but to inform the relevant authorities of the way that I have been treated and the way in which MBNA are running their (very profitable) business.”

 

I admit this was a threat in the hope that MBNA would see the error of their ways. However, I really have no further alternative but to report you to the following:

 

(insert other and addesses)

 

May I also take this opportunity to thank MBNA for the cessation in daily calls from Global Vantedge.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Josie8]

I have drafted the following letter. Can you all please comment on it for me. Thanks in advance. FS

 

Ms Joanne Johnson

Customer Advocate Office manager

Customer Advocate Office

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

13th June 2007

 

My Ref: MBNA xxx

 

Failure to comply with CCA 1974 Section 77-78 Request

 

 

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: 4129840611881019

 

Dear Ms Johnson

I am in receipt of your letter dated 9th May 2007. I apologise for the delay in responding but I have had some personal issues to deal with in the mean time.

 

 

Firstly I thank you for your copy of the agreement. It is unenforceable as it does not comply with section 60(1) of the act and is therefore improperly executed as per section 65.

Section 127(3) says that any agreement not complying with section 65 is unenforceable. I will therefore not be making any further payments.

I am concerned that a licensed lender such as yourself appears to have so little knowledge of what a CCA should contain and of the rights of the consumer. I should not have to advise you what a suitable response to a CCA Sec 78 request should be. Suffice to say that yours does not meet it will do. I have supplied the relevant sections for your viewing on at least two occasions.

I will now address the further issues you raise in your letter.

The request for the true signed copy of the original agreement (Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974, Section 78) was submitted by me to to you on 2nd Jan 2007.

Following MBNA’s failure to supply the requested information (after 2+ 12 working days) MBNA defaulted on 23rd January, 2007. As a consequence the account is in dispute. As you will be aware if an account is in dispute the ‘agreement’ remains unenforceable,. This is all clearly stated in the CCA. You are not entitled to enforce the agreement. This means that everything that the agreement consists of (adding interest, requesting payment and (in the event of arrears/non payment) employing Debt Collection Agencies for collection of the debt and also placing adverse history on my credit file.

Once the further calendar month had expired, you (MBNA) had then committed an offence which is punishable with a fine determined by the courts.

You must excuse my naivety with some of the previous letters. I am after all a mere consumer reading and interpreting the CCA with help and advice from fellow consumers on the Consumer Action Group. So I apologise if there were errors in my previous communications.

You state in your letter, “Direct Debit payments were collected from your account in February and March 2007 in accordance with the mandate opened on 29th February 2000. This instruction was not automatically cancelled late last year (it is evident from your statements that payments continued to be collected), nor were two consecutive payments rejected by your bank.”

I find this part of your letter particularly amusing. How did I know about the ruling of the two consecutive payments automatically cancelling the Direct Debit Mandate you may ask? Because MBNA informed me early 2007 when I had a call from the arrears department regarding the amount owed from late 2006. I suggest you look more closely at the statements. Yes, the payments went out according to the statements, but on the following months statements the words ‘UNPAID DIRECT DEBIT’ and ‘RETURNED PAYMENT FEE’ (with a £12 charge I might add) are inserted, as well as the interest charged for that month etc which indicate that payment was sought, but did not reach yourselves due to insufficient funds in my bank account.

I made reference to this in my my letter of 24th Jan 2007 to Ms Brassil Poole when I wrote the following:

“I am today in receipt of your letter dated 19th January 2007 regarding the account being in arrears. I have had a telephone call from a call centre in Asia (judging by the accent!) requesting that I make the payments to the account to make it in order. I made it clear to the advisor on the phone that the account was in dispute. She advised that I contact customer services. I called the number on the letter received today (0800 028 0687). I then explained the situation to the advisor (an English centre). She said she was aware that the account had notes on it, but that there were not any notes of the account being in dispute. I think I must refresh your memory…”

It continues…

“However, as the account was in arrears prior to the 21st January 2007, I enclose a cheque for the outstanding amount of £xxx.xx. This cheque payment will bring my account up to date, but as I say, I consider the account to be in dispute from 21st January 2007 until I receive a true copy of the original credit agreement.”

The amount I made the cheque out for was for the arrears on the account. If the Direct Debits had gone out as you state then the account would not have been in arrears! The application form you have sent me contains a copy of a signature box signed by myself dated 14th March 1998. So it would appear that the direct debit was not set up at that time.

As previously stated, whilst the account is in dispute you are not permitted to enforce the agreement. So naturally, I assumed that MBNA being the huge reputable company that it is would have prior knowledge of this and was amazed when the payment of £xxx.xx was taken from direct debit from my bank account on 2nd February 2007.

As I said in my letter dated 13th March 2007, “I noted that you collected a payment via direct debit on 2nd February 2007 when you were a) not entitled to it as the account was in dispute and b) you had previously stated that the Direct Debit payment method had been cancelled due to two consecutive failures of this method late last year (automatic cancellation). Following this, I went to the bank and cancelled the direct debit for MBNA to ensure no further monies were taken.”

You refer in your letter to the Direct Debit Terms and Conditions and the fact that the payee is to give at least 5 working days notice in advance of of intention to cancel the payment due date. You were notified on 2nd January 2007 that if you did not meet the CCA request criteria within 14 working days no more payments were to be requested from myself. I think that is more than ample notice.

 

Requesting payments is an offence. Please do not request any further monies.

 

I have been threatened with Collection Agency action if I do not pay the ‘arrears’. This action is an offence. Please refrain from such action.

 

I note from my Credit File (via Experian) that you have placed a ‘missed payment’ on my file. Again, this is not permitted whilst the CCA request is not satisfied. It is an offence. Remove this from my credit file within the next 14 days and refrain from placing any others on my file.

 

I have given MBNA more than enough time to comply with the CCA request, the timescales of which fully expired on 23rd February 2007.

 

As I stated in my letter of 13th March 2007, “I am now in no doubt that MBNA have little respect for the law and the CCA 1974 along with its content. I have no choice but to inform the relevant authorities of the way that I have been treated and the way in which MBNA are running their (very profitable) business.”

 

By your actions I have been left with no alternative but to report you to the following:

 

(insert other and addesses)

 

May I also take this opportunity to thank MBNA for the cessation in daily calls from Global Vantedge.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Excellent letter - can see you're in fine form. Took the liberty of suggesting a few changes

 

Good luck with the fight - sock it to them :D

[Fullyskinted]

Ta muchly

 

Im also gonna add that I will be sending copies ot Ms brassil Poole and one 'Sally Moran' (dated 1/6/07) who apparently are BOTH 'HEAD OF CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE'. Who knows?!?! Maybe ms Brassil Poole got the boot LOL

[Josie8]

I would also send a copy to the Chairman of MNA and the Managing Director...............then they can't say further on down the line that they had no prior knowledge of their staffs flagrant breaches of the law:grin: :grin:

[Fullyskinted]

Hmmm. Good idea... Im sure I saw the name and contact details somewhere too...

[Peterbard]

Excellent letter - can see you're in fine form. Took the liberty of suggesting a few changes

 

Good luck with the fight - sock it to them :D

Hi

Please don't think i am trying tio be a smart aleck here but there are just a few factual errors in your letter.

 

Firstly I thank you for your copy of the agreement. It is unenforceable as it does not comply with section 60(1) of the act and is therefore improperly executed as per section 65.

Section 60(1) refers to the form of the agreement and would not make the agreement unenforceable. Being improperly executed likewise does not render the agrement unenfoforceable.

The only thing that renders an agreement unenforceableis via section 127(3) is no debtors signature and no prescribed terms, the form of the agreement is immaterial..

 

Section 127(3) says that any agreement not complying with section 65 is unenforceable. I will therefore not be making any further payments

This is not what secion 127(3) says section 65 is a notice of what will happen if an agreement is not properly executed(In all respects) and refers to it only being enforceable by court order.

Best regards

Peter

[Fullyskinted]

OK, sorry Pete, you lost me a little bit mate. I merely included the text that you had posted in an earlier post ^^^^ in the letter.

 

Ill have to think of another way of wording it I guess. Other than that, do you think its OK?

[Peterbard]

HI

 

I would point out that this does not conform to the agreement regulations 1553 via secion 60(1) on several accounts, and is therfore improperly executed as per 61(a), this alone renders the agreement unenforceable without the order of the court(section65).

Furthermore section as per127(3) any agreement not complying with section 61(a)via section 65 in as far as it does not contain the debtors signature and prescribed terms is unenforceable. Resultantly i will be making no further payments on this account

 

Best regards

Petr

HI F

Is this the earlier posting i seem to have dropped a clogg well partially i have ammended it and feel free to use if you wish.

The rest of the leter is very good

Appologies for my earlier mistake

 

Best wishes

 

Petr

[Fullyskinted]

Thanks Pete.

 

I need to add a few more bits now as Ive had a couple more letters about sorting out a payment agreement...

[MBNA slave]

FS - some outrageous behaviour on MBNA`s behalf.

In case you need to contact anyone there of any seniority, Michael Rhodes is the CEO and Donna Pumfrey is in charge of the Legal department. As for Brassil-Poole, she used to be the old CEO`s secretary, so I`d imagine her technical collection skills are erm, unique. The address is below:

 

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9FB

 

Good luck!!!!

[Fullyskinted]

See my other thread here too after I had a chat with their legal dept...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/99086-interesting-convo-mbna-legal.html

[Fullyskinted]

OK, here's the letter Ive bashed together. Can you all please comment asap as I need to get this out today, if not tokorrow! Edit: Not sure what went on with the bold font... Ill sort that before it goes off!

 

Dear Ms Johnson

I am in receipt of your letter dated 9th May 2007. I apologise for the delay in responding but I have had some personal issues to deal with in the mean time.

 

Firstly I thank you for your copy of the agreement. I would point out that this does not conform to the agreement regulations 1553 via section 60(1) on several accounts, and is therefore improperly executed as per 61(a), this alone renders the agreement unenforceable without the order of the court (section65).

Furthermore as per section 127 (3) any agreement not complying with section 61(a)via section 65 in as far as it does not contain the debtors signature and prescribed terms is unenforceable. Resultantly i will be making no further payments on this account

 

I am concerned that a licensed lender such as yourself appears to have so little knowledge of what a CCA Sec 78 request should contain and of the rights of the consumer. I should not have to advise you what a suitable response to a CCA Sec 78 request should be. Suffice to say that yours does not meet it will do. I have supplied the relevant sections for your viewing on at least two occasions. The ‘copy’ you sent me is what appears to be a ‘Priority Application Form’. Nowhere does it state the credit limit, the APR, the monthly payments at the time. There are no terms and conditions with it relevant to the date. I can apply for anything. It doesn’t mean to say that I would be permitted it though. i.e. Although you have a copy of the Application Form, it does not deem that I was accepted on that occasion. You go on to state about the direct debit commencing and signed by me in February 2000. Why is it not that this was completed at the time of signing the application form???

 

I will now address the further issues you raise in your letter.

 

The request for the true signed copy of the original agreement (Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974, Section 78) was submitted by me to you on 2nd Jan 2007.

Following MBNA’s failure to supply the requested information (after 2+ 12 working days) MBNA defaulted on 23rd January, 2007. As a consequence the account was in dispute from this date. As you will be aware if an account is in dispute the ‘agreement’ remains unenforceable,. This is all clearly stated in the CCA. You are not entitled to enforce the agreement. This means that everything that the agreement consists of (adding interest, requesting payment and (in the event of arrears/non payment) employing Debt Collection Agencies for collection of the debt and also placing adverse history on my credit file.

 

Once the further calendar month had expired, you (MBNA) had then committed an offence which is punishable with a fine determined by the courts.

You must excuse my naivety with some of the previous letters. I am after all a mere consumer reading and interpreting the CCA with help and advice from fellow consumers on the internet. So I apologise if there were errors in my previous communications.

 

You state in your letter, “Direct Debit payments were collected from your account in February and March 2007 in accordance with the mandate opened on 29th February 2000. This instruction was not automatically cancelled late last year (it is evident from your statements that payments continued to be collected), nor were two consecutive payments rejected by your bank.”

 

I find this part of your letter particularly amusing. How did I know about the ruling of the two consecutive payments automatically cancelling the Direct Debit Mandate you may ask? Because MBNA informed me early 2007 when I had a call from the arrears department regarding the amount owed from late 2006. I suggest you look more closely at the statements. Yes, the payments went out according to the statements, but on the following months statements the words ‘UNPAID DIRECT DEBIT’ and ‘RETURNED PAYMENT FEE’ (with a £12 charge I might add) are inserted, as well as the interest charged for that month etc which indicate that payment was sought, but did not reach yourselves due to insufficient funds in my bank account.

 

I made reference to this in my letter of 24th Jan 2007 to Ms Brassil Poole when I wrote the following:

 

“I am today in receipt of your letter dated 19th January 2007 regarding the account being in arrears. I have had a telephone call from a call centre in Asia (judging by the accent!) requesting that I make the payments to the account to make it in order. I made it clear to the advisor on the phone that the account was in dispute. She advised that I contact customer services. I called the number on the letter received today (0800 028 0687). I then explained the situation to the advisor (an English centre). She said she was aware that the account had notes on it, but that there were not any notes of the account being in dispute. I think I must refresh your memory…”

 

It continues…

 

“However, as the account was in arrears prior to the 21st January 2007, I enclose a cheque for the outstanding amount of £xxx.xx. This cheque payment will bring my account up to date, but as I say, I consider the account to be in dispute from 21st January 2007 until I receive a true copy of the original credit agreement.”

 

The amount I made the cheque out for was for the arrears on the account. If the Direct Debits had gone out as you state then the account would not have been in arrears! The application form you have sent me contains a copy of a signature box signed by myself dated 14th March 1998. So it would appear that the direct debit was not set up at that time.

 

As previously stated, whilst the account is in dispute you are not permitted to enforce the agreement. So naturally, I assumed that MBNA being the huge reputable company that it is would have prior knowledge of this and was amazed when the payment of £xxx.xx was taken using direct debit from my bank account on 2nd February 2007.

 

As I said in my letter dated 13th March 2007, “I noted that you collected a payment via direct debit on 2nd February 2007 when you were a) not entitled to it as the account was in dispute and b) you had previously stated that the Direct Debit payment method had been cancelled due to two consecutive failures of this method late last year (automatic cancellation). Following this, I went to the bank and cancelled the direct debit for MBNA to ensure no further monies were taken.”

 

You refer in your letter to the Direct Debit Terms and Conditions and the fact that the payee is to give at least 5 working days notice in advance of intention to cancel the payment due date. You were notified on 2nd January 2007 that if you did not meet the CCA request criteria within 14 working days no more payments were to be requested from myself. I think that is more than ample notice that I would not be making any payments if the CCA Sec 78 request had not been satisfied.

 

Requesting payments is an offence. Please do not request any further monies.

 

I have been threatened with Collection Agency action if I do not pay the ‘arrears’. This action is an offence. Please refrain from such action.

I note from my Credit File (via Experian) that you have now placed two ‘missed payments’ on my file. Again, this is not permitted whilst the CCA Sec 78 request is not satisfied. It is an offence. Remove this from my credit file within the next 14 days and refrain from placing any others on my file. Please accept this letter that I am putting you on notice that in advent of any adverse reporting while MBNA are at fault I will issue a claim at court to get any adverse credit history that has been added by yourselves removed. I will also ask the court to order production of a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA was signed by me in respect of this alleged debt.

 

I have given MBNA more than enough time to comply with the CCA request, the timescales of which fully expired on 23rd February 2007.

 

As I stated in my letter of 13th March 2007, “I am now in no doubt that MBNA have little respect for the law and the CCA 1974 along with its content. I have no choice but to inform the relevant authorities of the way that I have been treated and the way in which MBNA are running their (very profitable) business.”

 

By your actions I have been left with no alternative but to report you to the following:

 

Financial Ombudsman Service (please see attached complaint form)

Financial Service Authority

William Wareing – Senior Legal Assistant MBNA

Michael Rhodes – CEO MBNA

Sally Moran – Head of Customer Assistance Department – MBNA

Patricia Brassil-Poole – Head of Customer Assistance Department – MBNA

Dee Dillistone – Head of Customer Assistance Department – MBNA

 

(I’m not sure how you can have THREE Heads of Department or if you have a high staff turn around…)

All of the above will be sent a copy of this letter and the information relevant to the request and your responses. I have just spoken to the legal department (Wayne) so they are expecting correspondence from you on the matter. Wayne also went on to say that in some cases, the Judge has deemed the agreement unenforceable, but had deemed the agreement payable on another count. He would not divulge the exact case(s). Can you please forward me a copy of case citation(s) of which he spoke.

I have approached Trading Standards on this matter and they replied with the following, “Based on the information provided, it appears that MBNA have failed to respond to your Consumer Credit Act 1974 S.78 request.

You may consider sending MBNA a recorded delivery letter headed with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 S.78, outlining everything to date and making ‘time of the essence’ to resolve the matter within a set period of time (e.g. 7 working days). Attach a copy of your first request. It is worth retaining copies of everything sent for your records.

If MBNA fails to resolve the matter within this time period, you may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service -www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk or tel. no. 0845 080 1800 . The FOS has been set up by law to help settle individual disputes between consumers and financial firms. They consider complaints about a wide range of financial matters”.

I then spoke to them again regarding sending you a ‘time is of the essence’ letter and as the timescales are now beyond anything that is within the CCA Sec 78 request. As the matter is somewhat out of control, they advised me to liaise directly with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

One other matter that the Application Form has brought to my attention is the PPC Payment Insurance. Not only do I not remember taking this out at the time but when I had a period of unemployment due to forced resignation I requested payments be frozen due to the fact I had NO income. The request was declined. It was informed that I was already making the minimum payment on the account. I should point out that I have since found out the way in which my former employer dealt with my leaving the company was not a suitable way of dealing with the situation and that I had a good case of unfair dismissal). I am now requesting that all payments made under the ‘PPC’ are refunded in full with interest at commercial rates at 8% APR. I request that you make a formal offer within 14 days. If I DID actually take out the PPC I believe I was miss sold it.

 

Since the arrival of your letter, I am now in receipt of two more letters from the Head(s) of Customer Assistance Department on 1st June 2007 (from Sally Moran) and 11th June (from Dee Dillistone). I have not corresponded with either, but hopefully this letter will satisfy their requests for me to contact them.

 

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank MBNA for the cessation in daily calls from Global Vantedge.

 

 

 

Yours....

[wednesday1867]

Im no whizz when it comes to all this legal stuff, so this may seem a thickie question.

 

If you say the account is in dispute and its actually an "alleged debt" why are you sending them a cheque? Surely if its an alleged debt, you dont recognise a need to send payment?

 

Or am i being a bit

 

Edit*

 

Also is there any case yet, where you can persue claiming anything back, to leave you with a couple of quid, or is it still a case of just clearing your account to zero?

[Fullyskinted]

Becasue at the time it was (and it may still be the case if they come up with the correct papaerwork) an enforceable debt!

[wednesday1867]

Yeah but my question/point is, at this moment in time, they cant add interest, so the account is or should be frozen. If they produce the agreement, then the account goes back on line, the balance goes back to what it was when the account went into dispute, with the arrears, then you pay the arrears and go back to paying them.

 

If they dont produce the agreement, the debt from day one was never a debt, so you have no arrears to pay.

 

Im not saying you should or you shouldnt be paying them but from what ive read and understand, you seem to be contradicting yourself, saying they havent got an enforceable debt, but your willing to pay the arrears?

 

Maybe im totally wrong

 

Right or wrong all the best

[Fullyskinted]

If you re-read it, the arrears were form last year and the acct was not in dispute. I payed it off so that at the time of it entering into dispute, it was CLEAR and in order.

 

I did this because I ddint want any more trouble wrt debts arising.... As it is, theyre not playin ball very nice!