Strange parking charge notice?!?! help?

[james warren]

I just received "parking charge notice" or "pcn" from security international group.

 

here is my sob story i went to meet a friend for lunch at a pub where he is the general manager in woking town centre and i parked behind but he couldnt find any parking permits so he wrote a note on a piece of paper saying i was dropping of cctv equipment (i wasn't it was just a good excuse) and i would be back in 30 mins he left his phone number on the piece of paper along with his business card with the pubs land line number on it.

 

20 mins later i return and one of his employees presented me with a ticket that had been put on the car, now the employee had run out to move the car as the parking guy was sat in his van wrighting the ticket but the guy ran up to the car slapped the ticket on and took a picture before the employee had chance to move it ( the van was also blocking my car from being moved).

 

i doubt this will effect anything just thought it might help.

 

i may not even need your help as my friend at the pub is going to get in touch with the land owner.

 

the ticket says.

 

date: 11-08-07 Time: from 13.38 to...........

Location:Albion House....................................................

Site Code: ....................................................................

Patrol Officer R Finn..........................................................

Vehicle: Renault............... VEHICLE REG.**** ***

 

and that is it all the other info is payment slip, instructions for payment, credit/debit card and a warning!!!

 

Any help would be great.

 

i Can scan this ticket onto here and also the note and business card if you think it will help.

 

thanks

james

[demon_x_slash]

Private ticket, civil argument, no legal authority:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/65341-private-parking-companies-charges.html#post557569

[djweeble]

Either totally ignore it, it's unenforceable, or take great pleasure in writing to the head monkey of the company and telling him just where he can stuff his nuts

[Tau]

Is the date you have posted a typo or what was on the ticket ???

 

11/08/07 :o :o

[demon_x_slash]

No, the date's right, he was parking his TARDIS

[james warren]

course its a typo lol....

 

can anyone suggest a way of argueing this and even if i can?

[demon_x_slash]

Please actually read the link that I posted for you above. You don't need to argue this - they do. It's a civil penalty, nothing to do with any laws or legalities or authorities. Read the link provided.

[james warren]

I have read it but i still don't know what to do?

 

can someone tell me how to get out of this and how this link relates to my problem?

 

i know it says all the loopholes but is there a template of something i can use to write to them in my defence?

[djweeble]

Read and inwardly digest.....

 

YOU DON'T NEED A DEFENCE

 

There is no offence.

 

Ignore it.

 

[Chips123]

Providing the signs were clear and the person who gave the ticket was either the land owner or his agent then there was an offence.... a contract was entered into and broken, plain and simple.

 

However, they have to prove that you were the driver - not just the registered keeper of the vehicle. So if you get a letter through the post you could request they provide proof of the identity of the driver at the time of the incident and no further correspondence will be entered into until they do.

 

If they have CCTV in the area showing you entering\leaving the vehicle or if an agent took a photo of you.... then I am guessing you would be hard pressed to prove you were not the driver and would have to pay the fine.

 

Its up to you what you do.... if it were me and the signs were clear then I would probably just take it on the chin and pay up (providing the charges are not unreasonable), it could have been worse, they could have put a clamp on.

[demon_x_slash]

There is no offence. An offence implies a criminal act. There is nothing illegal about breaking a contract. If you read around the threads on this forum about private parking (there are plenty) then your course shall become apparent. This is a self-help site, not an ABC, 123 of templated 'loopholes' - which, by the way, are not even loopholes, but proper applications of civil contract law.

[Chips123]

By offense I did not mean criminal act - I meant something for which you could be penalised - either under criminal or civil law, i.e. breaking a contractual agreement. Should have been clearer, sorry.

 

Of course if you are charged a disproportionate fine or clamping fee, or if the the agent if not acting on behalf of the landowner, or if there were no clear signs.... or if you were not the driver then fair enough - But what if everything was as it should be and you were the driver and knew what would happen - would you recommend disputing the fine then or paying it?

 

Also, if you disputed the fine, and the agent produced proof that you were in fact the driver at the time of the incident and there were clear signs stating the consquences of parking without a permit.... where would you stand if the matter was taken to a county court?

 

Not trying to take a moral high ground here.... I'm just curious if people are ever actually just in the wrong and should pay up!! I have had plenty of parking tickets in my time, so I am no fan of them either.

[Sidewinder]

Also, if you disputed the fine, and the agent produced proof that you were in fact the driver at the time of the incident and there were clear signs stating the consquences of parking without a permit.... where would you stand if the matter was taken to a county court?

 

...then the owner of the land would be entitled to seek damages for any actual loss incurred as a result of the driver's actions, ie in a free car park, there was no actual loss to the land owner therefore the damages which can be awarded amount to nothing. Clear signs don't matter a jot if the charge for the breach represents a penalty charge and it would also have to be proven that the OP had the terms of the contract fully explained to him and that such terms were fully understood.

 

One would, however, assume that as the General Manager of the premises where the ticket was issued and with the authority to act on behalf of the landowner, the OP's friend should be able to instruct the parking company to cancel the ticket, particularly as he was prepared to issue a permit and state that the vehicle was making an essential delivery?

[demon_x_slash]

By offense I did not mean criminal act - I meant something for which you could be penalised - either under criminal or civil law, i.e. breaking a contractual agreement. Should have been clearer, sorry.

 

That's fine, no problem - but again, you cannot be penalised for breaching a civil contract (if one even exists here - that's another problem they've got, as implied agreement is so hard to prove...). That's sort of what this whole site is about The owner of the car park would only be entitled to recover his actual losses, not an arbitrarily charged £70 here, £80 there, £120 somewhere else. And the process is the Small Claims Court, as the owner would be bringing a civil suit - as the Claimant, the burden of proof would be on the owner every step of the way.

[Chips123]

I appreciate the two posters above explaining things more clearly for me! Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread!

[demon_x_slash]

Again, that's absolutely no problem - this site exists for clarification

[gimmer]

Hi,first timer on this site and am already finding it very useful ! I'm a victim of one of Eye Level Parkings letters threatening me me Bailliffs etc and have followed advice on here so far.Now the letter has come from CCS Collect debt recovery and it is rather worrying,can anyone advise me on my next course of action please ?

[skyelet]

Make your own thread and im sure someone will be along very soon to help you out make usre to take a read of some other posts too.

[gimmer]

Thank you,as stated,I'm new to this ,how do I start a thread ?

[RichardM]

Click on the "NEW THREAD" button at the top of the parking forum topics page.

[crem]

Hi,first timer on this site and am already finding it very useful ! I'm a victim of one of Eye Level Parkings letters threatening me me Bailliffs etc and have followed advice on here so far.Now the letter has come from CCS Collect debt recovery and it is rather worrying,can anyone advise me on my next course of action please ?

 

Yes, your next course of action is very complicated so please pay attention;

 

Do nothing.

 

Would you like that repeting so that you can take notes this time?

 

Do not ring them, write to them, or answer their letters in any way. their threats are simply that and have no authority in law.

[gimmer]

Ok will follow advice,thank you.All I can add is that I wonder how many people must pay these kind of things out of sheer fright at the alleged escalating costs involved !! These companies seem to go to serious lengths to extract payment and the letters are quite official are'nt they.

Thanks again for help,I'll keep you posted !

[Al27]

Exactly - that's how they make their money. It is a [problem], pure and simple.