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Celicaman VS Northern Rock


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Hi all

This claim is against northern rock for several late payment charges on a mortgage account.

Its only over £200 plus interest at normal stat rate.

Story so far.

Prelim letter sent 22nd march and for some reason i included the interest in the letter

Rec'd reply on 27th, basic fob off letter.

LBA letter sent on the 29th as they had replied to prelim, gave them 14 days

 

Because of work commitments I did not file MCOL till 1st may, received notice of Acknol few days later.

Details

1.Between the dates of ******* and

******* the Defendant applied numerous

default charges to the Claimant?s bank

account.2. The charges applied constitute an

unfair penalty under the UTCCR which state?A

term is unfair if it requires any consumer

who fails his obligation to pay a

disproportionately high sum in compensation?

The amount charged does not

reflect the cost of the breach.3.Under the

law of penalties, the charges are an

unlawful ?extravagant? penalty. Referring to

the case of 1896, Wilson v Love, a charge is

a penalty if it does not reflect an item?s

true cost.4.Under the County Courts Act

1984, the claimant is entitled to interest

at a rate of 8% per annum from ******* to

********.This amounts to a total sum of

£*****continuing to accrue at the statutory

daily rate of 0.021% until judgement or

earlier payment.5. The Claimant therefore

asks the court to enter judgement in their

favour for the sum of £****** plus interest,

amounting to a total of £******

 

basically they filed defence and had 28 days to file

28 Days are now well and truly up.

I have received nothing from Bank or Court since

What is the next move

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Ok, today i received from N Rock a Part 18 request for more information request. ok i wasnt expecting this, but have heard them mentioned, so no panic, just need advice.

it reads

this is a request for further information made by the defendant of the claimant under the practice direction 18 of the civil procedure rules. THe calaimant is requested to provide wthe clarification or imformation soughht by *****date. The claimants response should be verified by a statement of truth in accordance with part 22 of the civil procedures rules.

 

The defendant requires the claimant to:

 

1 Particularise each and every charge that the claimant seeks to be returned in these proceedings.

Well that will be the revised list of charges with the full description of charges that i have already sent. DOH ! ok will do another with this one.

 

2. Particularise each and every breach of contract that alledgedley gave rise to the said charges.:confused:

Ok a little stumped here. What the frell does this mean.

Ok each time the mortgage was due, i failed to pay the mortgage on time ? :confused:

 

3. In relation to each of the said charges, particularise what, if anything, the claimant considers to be the defendants loss caused by the alledged breach of contract.

Oh yea like its my job to work out what the cost should have been, so i think we reply quoting OFt report april 2006, the whistlblower program april 2007, the australian program and the irish one on costings & add that as the bank will not disclose the actual time taken to implemet/action a charge, i cannot be expected to be able to work this out

 

4. In relation to each of the said charges, particularise the terms or terms of the mortgage with the defendant ( or other contractual documentation) that is claimed to be unenforcable.

Ok so i gotta find my copy of the mortgage T & Cs and list the relevant ones

 

5. Particularise in further & precise detail the relevant provisions of the UTCCR 1999 that makes the charges unenforcable.

Ok find the relevant bits in UTCCR

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs. 1999

 

INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR

 

 

1. Terms which have the object or effect of-

 

excluding or limiting the legal liability of a seller or supplier in the event of the death of a consumer or personal injury to the latter resulting from an act or omission of that seller or supplier;

 

(b) inappropriately excluding or limiting the legal rights of the consumer vis-à-vis the seller or supplier or another party in the event of total or partial non-performance or inadequate performance by the seller or supplier of any of the contractual obligations, including the option of offsetting a debt owed to the seller or supplier against any claim which the consumer may have against him;

 

© making an agreement binding on the consumer whereas provision of services by the seller or supplier is subject to a condition whose realisation depends on his own will alone;

 

(d) permitting the seller or supplier to retain sums paid by the consumer where the latter decides not to conclude or perform the contract, without providing for the consumer to receive compensation of an equivalent amount from the seller or supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;

 

(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

Ok Views anybody

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Im dealing with Northern Rock and they did exactly the same to us at the beginning.

 

Once you have answered this one they send another one wanting more information :( Then they will put in for strike out.

 

I will try and find the reply that we sent to Northern Rock for this. But if they are sending out the Part 18 there is nothing stopping you from sending the same asking for a breakdown in costs ;) That way it answers question 3 to :D

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Thanks for that melad, and in advance for any other help.

I have dug my T & C's out which are on the reverse of the offer of advance.Is there anything else i would need. Dont remember any main T & C leaflet but can look further.

On there its states in conditions

5. ' you should note that monthly payments should be paid on the 1st day of each month' ( Ok they wernt, obviously, so is this enough to be breach of contract)

And 19. Costs. 'The society charges costs for the provision of administative service to borrowers from time to time for such matters as arrears administration, transfer of equity etc'.

It then says full details of costs are available on request

Q1. The information has been asked for by 'Northern rock' , not the court although it looks all official.(is this not just delaying & bully tactics or what )

Q2. I read that as it is a small claim and under a certain amount that i do not have to fill the part 18 request for more information in.( Claim is only for £300 plus with the interest )

Q3. As melad above recommended, should i send a part 18 back to them asking them to provide an actual breakdown of costs for each manual intervention ( they wont provide it ) and ask for a strike if they do not provide the information.

Any help appreciated

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Guys and Gals (I think) You are approaching this with the wrong attitude. This is exactly the samr tact as Cobbetts use from Nat West it is basically a delay tactic to frighten you off.

 

The base response t this request is as follows.

 

 

Q1.1 In relation to each charge please identify:

A1.1: The information within this direction was supplied within document pack supplied to the Court. However since this has been directed the response to the requested CPR18 can be found below and within the attached spreadsheet .

(a) The dates when the charge was charged

A1.1 Date if each occasion when a penalty was charged to the account. It is noted that since the original list was compiled the defendant has seen fit to supply the missing information as requested within the original Data Information Request submitted in xxxxxxxxx. The information has been gathered from this therefore has necessitated an amendment. This amendment has been highlighted within the spreadsheet.

It is also of note to the court that the original list of charges has been supplied to the defendant on two occasions the last within the Allocation Questionnaire.

(b) The amount of the same

A1.2. The amount of the same, penalty charged to the account, is given within the attached spreadsheet, it is noted that this information has been gathered via information supplied by the defendant (Bank Statements) and readily available to the defendant without this request. It is noted that sine the original submission Claim was submitted the Defendant has seen fit to supply missing information. This information has resulted in an increase of the Claimed to £xxxxx and interest of £xxxxx totalling sum £xxxxxxx

I would therefore request that the court now accepts that the above be the amount to be repaid by the defendant.

It is also of note to the court that the original list of charges has been supplied to the defendant on two occasions the last within the Allocation Questionnaire.

© the reason(s) given for the charging of the same

The reason(s) for the charges of the same are included individually within the attached spreadsheet. This information was made available to the defendant prior to the Hearing. It is noted that this information has been available to the defendants through their own supplied information (Bank Statements).

It is also of note to the court that the original list of charges has been supplied to the defendant on two occasions the last within the Allocation Questionnaire.

1.2 In respect of each charge, please clarify the following:

(a) is it the case of the claimant the same should not have been charged.

The Claimant is aware that each charge has been debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s account pursuant to the terms and conditions when the account was opened. However, please see my replies below.

(b) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged:

The Claimant does not contend that the same should not have been charged; merely that the charge made should have represented the Defendant’s liquidated losses and not the fixed charges applied by the Defendant according to the terms and conditions in force at the time the charge was made.

© if no; is tit the case of the claimant that the same should not have been charged in this amount

This is exactly the Claimant’s case. Each charge debited by the Defendant from the Claimant’s bank account should not have been charged in the amount that was charged. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant. The Claimant reminds the Defendant that it has been put to strict proof in previous correspondence and/or the Particulars of Claim that the amount charged for each charge debited does truly reflect the Defendant’s costs and that they are not making a profit from such charges – in the absence of any documentation to support the Defendant’s contention that each charge debited represents the Defendant’s liquidated losses, the Claimant contends that the Defendant has no defence to the claim that each charge is disproportionate and therefore unenforceable in common law, or by the previously claimed Acts, Statutes and Regulations pleaded.

(d) if yes; please explain why the claimant contends that the same should not have been charged in this amount and identify the sum the claimants contends should have been charged

The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has failed to reply to the Claimant’s request for a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account. The Defendant’s contentions that the charges are fair, reasonable and transparent are denied because of this material failure to disclose this information. Had the Claimant been made aware of the breakdown of each and every charge debited, the Claimant would have been able to reply to this particular request.

That should shut them up.

THEN in a seperate letter respond to them with a CPR 18 and 22. The basis of this should be as follows.

case/claim No:

In the xxxxxxxxxx County Court

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx

claimant

-AND-

xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

defendant

 

Request for further information and Clarification

 

NOTE – IMPORTANT

1. This request is served pursuant to CPR Part 18 alternatively to CPR Rule 27.2(3)

2. The reason(s) why this request has been served are set out in the claimants case which has been served on the plaintiff.

3. You are asked to provide a response to this request in accordance with CPR 19 by xxxxxxxxxx 2007

4. In the event that you do not provide an adequate response to this request by this date then the plaintiff can apply to the court for an order requiring you to provide the information requested an order to striking out the Defence.

The Request

The Defendant shall, by the xxxxxxx 2007 thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

The attached schedule lists the charges that the claimant is claiming form xxxxxxxxxx.

1 What is required by the defendant:

i. Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

ii. Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

iii. If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss;

iv. If such charges are not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

 

2. Any witness statements.

Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

This should then stop them asking for more information.

Beaware all this is noise by the banks et al and they are done to frighten you into stopping the court actions.

StevePM

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StevePM

 

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Just a note youor CPR 18 You mustbe into claiming your costs through the courts as you can not get a CPR 18 outside of this. Northern Rock must also lodge the request with the relavant county court.To check this it should actually say on the CPR copy to XXXXXX County Court and give the appropriate Court Claim Number.Just check it out.StevePM

StevePM

 

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Hi Stevepm, thanks for your input.

just checked the cpr18 request for info and there is nothing on there saying copy to the court or CC county court or anything, it is solely addressed to Northern Rock.

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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I appreciate what you are saying but If they have said this is CPR Pt 18 then it should have the following:

 

 

1: Claim Number

2: The Court at which the Claim will be heard

3: The date by which you have to respond

 

 

I cannot stress enough that if this is a CPR Pt18 then it has to be sent to the court. The reason for this is that attached at the bottom of the CPR 18 they sent you will probably say something like:

 

 

IF YOU DO NOT COMPLY WITH THIS REQUEST WE WILL REQUEST AN ORDER THROWING OUT YOUR CLAIM TO THE COUNTY COURT.

 

 

Regardless of all else you MUST, MUST, MUST send your response and if you send a CPR 18 to them send a copy to the court.

 

 

The reason for this is that is that WHEN and not IF they DO NOT RESPOND then you can apply to the court for an order to have their defence thrown out.

 

 

Put yourself in their place would you want to answer the question you put and let everybody in the world including your competitors how much it costs you to process penalties.

 

 

StevePM

 

 

If this helps please tip my scales

StevePM

 

If you find this useful please tip my scales

 

First win £5k+ another five on the go all with NatWest

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Hi Stevpm, Thanks again for your input, it says nothing on the letter from NR, or on the sheet with list on. I see your point, but as i said earlier, i have read that for small claims of this size, you are not required to send it, more like bully boy tactics, but checking out completeley before i do or do not do anything ( either i will do as you have said or will be sending reply to NR about their tactics Re martin3030 post on cpr 18 post 1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/35672-cobbetts-cpr-18-request.html?highlight=part+18

 

thanks again

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Ok well today has been interesting.

2 lots of post in connection with NR.

First the good news, i got my cheque from NR for overcharging on Mortgage redemption fees. Not bad from just writng and asking.

 

OK, second and i think even better news,

A letter From Nottingham court, advising notice of Transfer. and the fact that they have dispensed with the AQ.....

Included in the envelope is the copy of NR defence papers, Mortgage conditions and Current price list ( and this is to justify the charges 6 years ago ?)

 

ok the interesting bits taken from the defence papers.

Usual blurb about who they are, who we are etc.

 

5. Condition 2 (A) of the mortgage codition states

The Borrower promises to the society

(A) to pay to the society the monthly payments blah blah

 

Then few more of the agreed conditions etc usual blurb

 

10. THe 'arrears and possession fees' table in the 'tariff of mortgage fees' leaflet states:

 

Arrears 2 months and over[£25 ] Charged every month that you are 2 months in arrears

 

11. in accordance with the mortgage conditions, the offer of advance and the 'tariff of mortgage fees' leaflet,

the defendant charged the claimant arrears charges of £25.00 (doesnt say they performed any service or manual intervention does it )

Then a list of the dates & charges, which to be fair is more comprehensive than my list as the statements only showed each years total charges as liste on my statements so thanks anyway :)

 

12. By reason of the matters aforesaid, the claimant was contractually obliged to pay the sum of £352.24 to the defendant ( they havenet looked at the bloody claim . It was for £225.00. The £352.24 is the amount i am claiming including interest & costs !!!???? Muppetts !) There is no legal basis for the claimant to be repaid that sum and the claim is without merit.

13. As to the POC, the claimant is put to proof thereof , being matters falling outside of the defendants knowledge, save as follows:

(1)They had an account.

 

(2) If the claimant is referring to charges and interest debited from the claimants mortgage account number due to the mortgage account being in arrears, it is admitted that these charges were debited.

 

(3) the claimant is required to particularise the charges referred to at Paragragh 1 of the particulars of claim. ( er em well that will be the list of charges that you just supplied me with in section 11 above then, you muppetts !!!!, i just grouped them together for the poc & i have sent you a summary of charges)

 

(4) It is admitted that the charges mentioned in Paragragh 13 (2) of this Defence were made due to the CLAIMANTS BREACH OF CONTRACT. By failing to make monthly payments the claimant was in BREACH OF CONDITION 2(A) of the mortgage conditions as referred to in Paragraph 5 of this Defence and the offer of advance as referred ti in Paragraph 6 of this defence.( BINGO, You just admitted that we breached the contract so what are the charges for, cups of tea ????)

 

(5) It is denied that the arrears charges constitute an unfair penalty under the UTCCR 1999 as referred to in Paragraph 2 of the POC as it is denied that these charges are dispropportionatley high in relation to the cost to the defendant when it is administering an account that has fallen into arrears

 

(6) Denial that charges are unlawful extravagant penalty........the charges reflect the cost tothe defendant when an account falls into arrears as stated in para 13(5)

 

(7) Denial that 'wilson v love' is relevant.......again as stated in para 13(5) and 13(6) of this defence, the charges are for admin charges, however they reflect the true cost to the defendant ( OK, so we get a time in motions guy (or GAL) out to test your claim, i'm game are you )

 

couple other points not need printing

 

14. The defendant is hindered in presenting its defence by the unspecific nature of the POC. ( you muppets, youve just filled all the points in for me, read what you have wrote, pillocks )

The defendant notes that the claimant has failed to comply with the civil procedure rule 16.4 because the claim is inadequatley and insufficiently particularised. The defendant reserves the right to plead further thereto upon receipt of proper particulars

 

15, The claimant is required to particularise:

(1) the terms of the 1995 conditions , the special conditions, the 'tariff of mortgage fees' Leaflet or any other docs on which the claimant relies, which avers is or are unenforcable

(2) the specific sections of the UTCCR the claimant seeks to rely on. ( yea well got that covered above)

 

16. the claimant in his POC has failed to particularise his alledged loss ( THat will be the £225 you added to my mortgage account then, that you have just listed in 11 above, JEEZ how do these muppets keep jobs )

17, deny the owe me the money

 

Ok whats the views and next step

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Bump, anybody

Still not sure whether im supposed to tell them to get stuffed i dont need to fill in CPR18 as small claim and send copy to court with parts about intimidation as not required. or fill it in.

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Share on other sites

hi all,

Today received letter from NR re CPR part 18, saying they had received my last letter and note that the schedule of charges detailing hte charges answers Q1. of the CPR

 

Also today, received AQ request from local court for this claim. advising please find enclosed copy of NR defence papers. AHH that will be the ones that were sent with the transfer notice then, thats why i got them.

 

So first things first, send them a cpr part 18 request back as advised, asking for breakdown of their costs for charging etc

 

Fill cpr request in sending court a copy

Fill AQ in

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Share on other sites

Ok, here is my response to Northern Rock's Part 18 request for more info. Thanks to stevepm, martin and melad for wording and help. Any comments before I put it in the post? Much appreciated.

 

----------

 

Dear **********

 

Celicaman v Northern Rock plc

Claim Number: ********

 

I acknowledge receipt of your Request For Further Information (Part 18 of the Civil Procedure Rules). Please note that I anticipate that the claim will be allocated to the small claims track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these are specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders me to do so of its own initiative. However, as a courtesy, please find my response detailed below:

 

1. Particularise each and every charge that the Claimant seeks to be returned in these proceedings.

 

This information was supplied on [date], and confirmation that this information answers question 1 was received from Northern Rock on [date]. However, please find attached a further copy.

 

2. Particularise each and every breach of contract that allegedly gave rise to the said charges.

 

The Defendant charged the Claimant arrears charges of £** on the following dates: [dates here] as detailed in Northern Rock’s Defence. These charges appear as a single entry on the yearly statement as detailed in the attached summary sheet.

 

3. In relation to each of the said charges, particularise what, if anything, the Claimant considers to be the Defendant’s loss caused by the alleged breach of contract.

 

The Claimant cannot specifically reply to this request in that the amount that should have been charged cannot be specified because the Defendant has not yet provided a breakdown of costs incurred by the Defendant in applying charges to the Claimant’s account. A request for this information has been made of the Defendant by the Claimant, and said request has also been copied to the court.

 

4. In relation to each of the said charges, particularise the terms of the mortgage with the Defendant (or other contractual documentation) that is claimed to be unenforceable.

 

The Claimant does not contend that the charges should not have been made; merely that the charges made should have represented the Defendant’s liquidated losses and not the fixed charges applied by the Defendant according to the terms and conditions in force at the time the charge was made. It is the Claimant’s case that each charge is a disproportionate penalty in that each charge does not truly represent the actual cost to the Defendant. The Claimant reminds the Defendant that the Defendant has clearly stated in their own Defence that the charges made do clearly and transparently represent the true costs of administering said charges. As we have not yet received any documentation to support the Defendant's contention that each charge debited represents the Defendant's liquidated losses, the Claimant contends that the Defendant has no defence to the claim that each charge is disproportionate and therefore unenforceable in common law.

5. Particularise in further and precise detail the relevant provisions of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 that make the said charges unenforcable.

 

In The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Schedule 2, Regulation 5(5) states:

 

INDICATIVE AND NON-EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF TERMS WHICH MAY BE REGARDED AS UNFAIR

 

1. Terms which have the object or effect of-

 

(e) requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;

 

A copy of the full relevant section of this regulation is attached.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Celicaman

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Share on other sites

well ok it must be good, we have went with it

So thats reply to part 18 request for more info sent to NR and sent copies to court, see how they like that little lot

Also sent same rqest to them, i answered mine, will they answer theirs, I Think Not,,,,,, just send the cash

 

Ok one point. should they now decide to state that as is small claim, THEY do not have to answer, i can feel a major complaint to the court coming on ref their (NR) intmidatiion tactics used to suit themselves

 

Celicaman

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok. Developments, and as Melad stated in earlier post, yes they have now said they have written to the court to request a strike out of my claim.

Received today.

Letter referring to my reply of 21st june.(see above)

Blah Blah, you have failed to respond adequatley to requests 2, 3 & 4 (see posts 2 back for questions & our replies to them )

therefore Northern rock have todayfiled an application notice with the court for an order to strike out your statement of case or for an order that you respond in full to the part 18 request. Blah

Hmmm interesting, we answered all their questions, Ok the next bit;

 

In response to your part 18 request, ( HE HE thats me asking for full breakdown of how they justify their charges, will post after this with what i asked for ) Northern rock has as stated previousley in its defence that its charges applied to your Mortgage account are a genuine reflection of the true cost to northern rock when we admin your account etc blah blah. copy ot T & C's

After that there is a copy of form N244 'application notice'

Basically asking claim be struck out as outlined above.

Then part 'C'

The defendant applies to the court for an order to strike out a statement of case as the claimants statement of case disclosesnno reasonable grounds for bringing this claim.

blah blah blah

Then the really funny bit

If the court is not minded to strike out the claimants statement of case, the defendant applies for an order requiring the claimant to fully particiularise his claim pursuant to part 18 by answering the attached part 18 request for further info

 

This bits even funnier

If the defendant is successfull in its applicatoin it reserves the right to apply for costs

 

ok what do you think of that little lot.

My take is that this is total bull, the questions were answered and it is nothing more than scare tactics and itimidation.

I think my reply is going to firstly write to the court, complaining to them of the tactics used by NR, stating that as a lay person, even i know that i as this is a small claim, and unless directed by a court i am not liable to answer NR 's request for part 18 request as this is a small claims claim? and is only for £225.00

This is a small claim and as such i am protected from NR application to apply for costs.

 

Any veiws advise appreciated :confused:

 

CM

 

Hey freaky did i tell you i won my HSBC claim:D

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Further update

Today received letter from court 'Notice of hearing'

Take notice that the hearing for the DEFENDANTs application will take place on 31st July 2007,

with copy of NR allocation notice that i received yesterday.

 

Ok What do i do next, think a call to the court first, find out the state of play there.

I mean is this worth it to them, for the amount i am claiming :-x

 

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Ok sent AQ today with attached draft request for N R to supply full detailed costs etc. Sent copy AQ & above to NR

See what that does in the hornets nest.

After ringing the court, i Decided to still go ahead with draft order request as the hearing is only that, a hearing for allocation as to which track ie small claims it should progress on.

THe draft says i will supply my info within 14 days and then NR have to supply theirs within 14 days of that, so will overlap the court hearing date.

See what happens, its a sort of nudge letter i suppose LOL

 

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok im wondering what to do next.

Rang court today NR have filed their AQ on 6th july

Asked about my request for a draft order, and judge will be looking at it next couple days........

I think this is why they play like this as its now starting to bug me a bit, have i answered everything correctly, What if etc.......

If i wasnt part of CAG & knew this is part of the tactics, i would really be panicking as opposed to only panicking a little bit LOL.

Been looking over papers sent & received and still think they look ok, just hope judge does same & strikes NR defence out or orders them for full disclosure.

One point made me laugh and this is part of the big bluff, taken from the NR letter saying i had failed in its request to answer questions 2,3 & 4.

and my corresponding request to them for breakdown of costs in CPR18

and i quote.

' If required to do so by a court, Northern rock plc will attempt to set out the breakdown of the specific calculations to evidence its costs'

Well please do, we are all listening.

so thats what ive done with my request for a draft order.

 

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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CM,

 

Please dont worry you are doing everything you can at the moment ;)

 

If the judge hasnt answered the question of the directions before the hearing you will be able to ask, I did exactly the same thing at my allocation hearing and he issused Northern Rock with the directions there and then.

 

Hopefully though you will hear sooner then that :D

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Thanks again meled, your support is always appreciated.

How is your claim going, no posts since june so i suppose all is quiet. See a lot of changes with some courts now asking for draft directions as soon as court date issued (usually couple months away) seems to be the courts are very sick of abuse of judicial system by the banks, its like put up or pay up & gives them a lot less time to pay claims long before court dates.

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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I have just had a letter at home from northern rock, with reference to my claim.

Have not actually seen letter myself yet, but according to my wife, it is a claim from N R of their costs in preparing the claim as they have applied for it to be struck out and the hearing is 2 weeks time.

3 x letters x £10.50, attendance of court on that date £195.00 and anything else that they have done.

They cant do this as it is a small claim, or at least it will be allocated to small claims.

This is sheer intimidation, but need some advice on how to fight this back

 

Help

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Hello to the 2 guests viewing this thread, why dont you join CAG and join in the fun

 

CM

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GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Hiya CM, well you seem to have been having fun with NR .

 

You look to have done everything you can and I wouldnt worry about their costs too much, why would the Judge allocate this to fast track ? your way under the £5000 watershed figure and there are no unusual questions of law to be answered, they are just using scare tactics and they have given you a lovely basis for your own wasted costs order, how many letters have you written ?

 

All of these claims boil down to how much it actualy costs them when you break the rules and no matter how much smoke they blow that must be the core of your claim. You have to have disclosure of the cost from them and that was part of your CPR18 request so wait and see what they send in reply.

 

pete

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Hi Pete, thanks, the only response i had about CPR 18 was in post 15, where they state their T & Cs again.

Do you think i should send some sort of letter to the court with a copy of the costs letter from NR & complain of their tactics also pointing out that they have failed to respond to the CPR 18.

When i rang court last week,was told the judge should be looking at AQ & my request for a draft order very soon.

Can i put toilet paper on the wasted costs cos im getting through some LOL

 

CM :D

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Yes copy the format they have used in their responce to your answers to their CPR 18 and ask for a strike out of their defence. The difference being you have answered all of their questions they havent answered yours, the Judge will see that.

 

pete

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