BLADES65 vs HFC GM Card

[BLADES65]

Hi all,

 

Another Application form received after CCA request. This time from HFC for a GM Card. This is the original leaflet I picked up in the Vauxhall garage.

 

Single sided A4 sheet with last 6 statements in envelope.

 

This is the A4 sheet:

 

 

 

Thoughts please

 

Thanks

[BLADES65]

A final response from HFC today.

 

As already said they sent am application form and current T&C's in response to the CCA request. It contained no prescribed terms so unenforceable.

 

I also requested a true executed copy of the default notice and proof of service.

 

 

This is the final response after sending two CCA default notices to them I would appreciate your advise on the next step to take.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Their response to request for default notice:

 

 

Thanks as always

[conar686]

I'm afraid that all the Banks are going down the final response route now. My view their response is bllx, Its an offence under the act to send an application form and you should report them to TS, OFT & FOS.

 

Write & tell them the account is still in dispute as you consider the agreement improperly executed due to their being no prescribed terms on the signature page.

 

Add, Furthermore the lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

a. You may not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

b. You may not add any further interest or charges to this account.

c. You may not pass this account to any third party.

d. You may not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.

e. You may not issue a default notice related to this account.

Add the the following quotes from TS & ex Minister in dti in providing applications not agreements in responses to CCA requests;

 

TS - We would view it is as unfair practice under section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.

 

Mr Ian McCartney, Minister of State at the DTI, has replied, when writing about this precise issue, that it is a breach of the Act to send an application form rather than an agreement in response to a request under Section 78 of the CCA 1974

Finally If you haven't already done so stop paying and await any courts action from them.

 

Complaining gets variable results, so awaiting courts action may be the only option.

[Peterbard]

HI

 

How about this thank them for their recent letter and advise them that you have been very patient but you you are not willing to allow any more time for them to produce the properly executed agreement, and are now of the opinion that this improperly and unenforceable agreement is the only document they have in connection with your account.

This being the case you accept that this is a true copy of the document you signed.

 

Then say

 

You will appretiate that this agreement is unenforceable under section 127(3) of the consumer credit act as it does not contain any of the prescribed terms as defined by section 6 of Agreement regulations(si1553/1557) in pusrsuance of section 60 of the Act.

 

I also wish it to be noted that the "Agreement" does not conform in to the regulations either in form or content in many other aspects all of which would render it enforceable only with the order of the court.

A list of these breaches will be supplied if this is required by the court.

 

I shall of course be making no further payment on this "account" and remind you that any attempt to further enforce this agreement without the correct legal authority will breach the regulations and will imedialtly be reported to the relevant enforcement agencies.(OFT,DTI) and may have an effect on your ability to retain your liscence to give credit.

 

Please arrange the above it is just off the top of my head but i hope you get the idea.

 

I am in touch with the OFT at the moment regarding there missleading advice on section 78 requests and will report on the outcome when i get a definative response instead of the snow job they are trying on me at the moment.

 

One final point just spoted conar,s excellent response and a lot of the information in that could be incorporated within the above, if i was to nit pick and knowing how they pick up on the smallest thing the signature box does not have to be on the same page as the prescribed terms,pre 2005 it can be anywhere but must be in the singature document.

 

One final final point love the bit whre they say because the agreements says it is a CCA agreement it is one.

My wife has a handbag that says Goochi on it got it from the market cost me five quid.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

As always great responses and I thank you. Now on to the next stage using your advice.

[Peterbard]

hI

Just to clarify you are now going from saying that they have not conformed to the post contractual request under section 78 of the act to the assertion that the agreement is unenforceable under the precontractual regulations required by section 60 of the act.

In effect saying that the agreement was improperly executed and therefore unenforceable without an order from the court via section 65 and because it lacks the prescribed terms it is totally unenforceable via section 127(3).

 

If you want me to have a look at your draft letter before you post it just PM me

 

Best regards

Peter

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Blades,

 

Just read your thread. They truely are a bunch of ******** and ******. I am having the same arguement with them and have had the same letters and template default letter to show me what they should have sent.

 

My problems is that they have issued a court summons. So there is a bit of a fight going on. The judge has stayed the case to let us sort it out. HFC solicitors are begging me to admit liability so they can drop the case. Wonder what is going to happen next.

 

The way I look at it is this, I was happily paying them via a DMP, they got greedy and wanted a charging order on the house, plus interest at their contractual rate and a collection charge.

 

They probably do this hundreds of times a day, pushing papers around their desk, like little programmed computors, from department to department. and consumers in their ignorance, just panic and don't defend so the get the ccj and then hfc apply for the charging order. There very happy. Now all of a sudden, they get challenged and they don't like it.

 

I am so glad I found this site. I will fight them till the bitter end on this and only when a Judge tell me I owe them money, and come to think of it, even if he does, I have the right to appeal.

 

Rant over:-D

[BLADES65]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I'm afraid HFC are in for a huge shock as I'm loving this and relish going to court.

 

If they don't take me then I'll be taking them via a lovely N1.

 

Game on.

 

 

PS Peter I will let you look over my response when it's done. Thanks for your help.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I'm afraid HFC are in for a huge shock as I'm loving this and relish going to court.

 

If they don't take me then I'll be taking them via a lovely N1.

 

Game on.

 

 

PS Peter I will let you look over my response when it's done. Thanks for your help.

 

Hello Blades,

 

Bet they don't take you now, because they know, you know:lol: will watch with interest. and the very best of luck:D

[conar686]

PS Peter I will let you look over my response when it's done. Thanks for your help.

 

Blades why not post it on your thread, I'm waiting for HFC to send me my Agreements so I've all this yet to come.

[BLADES65]

Will do Conar, hope to get it done this weekend.

[BLADES65]

LATEST:

 

Just received a notification from TBI Financial Services that as of 22nd November they have bought the debt from HFC Bank Limited and that all future payments should be made to them.

 

I CCA'd HFC and received this in response so put the debt in dispute:

 

 

 

No precribed terms, no T&C's sent and no statement of account.

 

So then as they were in deafult this should not have been sold right?

What do I do now, CCA TBI or just inform them of what has happened up to them purchasing the debt.

 

Thanks as always.

[hellhasnofury]

LATEST:

 

Just received a notification from TBI Financial Services that as of 22nd November they have bought the debt from HFC Bank Limited and that all future payments should be made to them.

 

I CCA'd HFC and received this in response so put the debt in dispute:

 

 

 

No precribed terms, no T&C's sent and no statement of account.

 

So then as they were in deafult this should not have been sold right?

What do I do now, CCA TBI or just inform them of what has happened up to them purchasing the debt.

 

Thanks as always.

 

Well they are very naughty, Sold the account whilst they are in default of the cca and the account is in dispute, Not followed the oft debt collection guidence.

 

Personally I would sent tbi a letter, telling them you do not acknowledge any debt, whatsoever to them and request a copy of the ca of the account, and watch them sweat, Soon as the 12days are up the account is still in dispute. Play them at their own game.

[BLADES65]

I have today received the following from TBI inhouse solicitor:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your advice on a suitable response would, as always, be much appreciated.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Blade,

 

This is only my opinion as I am not legally trained, there are certain application forms which can be deemed as credit agreements, but they must contain all of the prescibed terms. The fact that it contains regulated by the cca is neither use or ornament. Maybe pm one of the mods for clarification.

 

I noticed that in their letter it mentions this, that the application form is the credit agreement, but did not discuss your credit agreement.

 

Hfc will say anything to get money.

[PriorityOne]

If that had been an enforceable Agreement, HFC wouldn't have farmed it out..... they would have set Weightman's/Restons onto you instead.

 

I had a similar scenario with A&L last year. I'll go and have a look at the letter I sent to the chancers who picked up that one after A&L flogged it... and see if it can be adapted for you...

 

[hellhasnofury]

Hello PriorityOne,

 

I have an ongoing court case with HFC, Restons are acting on their behalf, and the ca is a pre-contractual application with no prescribed terms:o what so ever:D

[PriorityOne]

It's probably the same pre-contractual blurb they've sent me.... yet HFC are adamant that they've complied. I'm expecting mine to be sold though, since the CCA reached HFC before they could pass it to Weightman's/Restons....

 

Anyway Blades.... I've adapted my A&L letter for your "David D Jones", but you may need to tweak it a little if it doesn't completely suit your situation, as I've had to rush it....

 

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or to any company you claim to represent.

 

A request for my Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974) was received by HFC Bank on xx/xx/xx. Since they are now in summary criminal default of a legal request, I can only assume that HFC failed to inform TBI Financial Services Limited before passing/selling on a disputed account or, that TBI Financial Services Limited failed to inform you themselves. As in-house solicitors however, it seems that they would not be your "clients in the way that you imply anyway.

 

The Application Form you refer to contains none of the prescribed terms by virtue of S127(3) of The Consumer Credit Act, 1974. and contrary to your claims, is therefore unenforceable. Frankly, I am surprised that a firm of solicitors is unaware of the importance of these prescribed terms. Nevertheless, Section 127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 clearly and unequivocally states that :

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

I therefore suggest that you liaise with your “clients” before contacting me again, if such “clients“ even exist. In the meantime, please be aware that no action can be taken against a disputed account and this includes the following :

 

You/your “client” may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

You/your “client” may not add any further interest or charges to the account.

 

You/your “client” may not pass the account to any third party.

 

You/your “client” may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

 

You/your “client” may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

In addition, please also be aware that your threatening letter to my home could, under the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, be construed as unlawful harassment in the absence of such an Agreement. As you have claimed (in your letter) to be “the in-house solicitor” for TBI Financial Services Ltd, please also note that any court claim regarding harassment would be brought against yourselves, your company and HFC, should this be necessary; since you would be complicit in this action.

 

You may therefore consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act, 1998 to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a legal right, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

I look forward to a favourable response within 14 days of the date of this letter; informing me that on this occasion you have made a genuine mistake and that your files are now closed. Failure to respond favourably however, will result in me reporting this matter to Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

I look forward to your reply in due course.

 

Yours faithfully,

[BLADES65]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I've just looked at the T&C's they supplied dated 2006.

 

Brilliant news I think. They DO NOT contain the prescribed terms, the T&C's say:

 

APR: Please see your statement

 

Total Charge for Credit: Please see your agreement.

 

Annual Interest Rates: Rates payable at the annual interest rate in your agreement

 

What they are saying is my agreement and the T&C's that make up my agreement as per my CCA request, they DO NOT have any of the above as it's an application form with no prescribed terms.

 

So in effect at the time of my signing I was not given any document with the prescribed terms on it.

[hellhasnofury]

Thanks for all your replies.

 

I've just looked at the T&C's they supplied dated 2006.

 

Brilliant news I think. They DO NOT contain the prescribed terms, the T&C's say:

 

APR: Please see your statement

 

Total Charge for Credit: Please see your agreement.

 

Annual Interest Rates: Rates payable at the annual interest rate in your agreement

 

What they are saying is my agreement and the T&C's that make up my agreement as per my CCA request, they DO NOT have any of the above as it's an application form with no prescribed terms.

 

So in effect at the time of my signing I was not given any document with the prescribed terms on it.

 

Hello Blades,

 

Excellent:-D This is why everyone should read the small:lol: print in the T&C

 

Will you be sending a appropriate letter showing them the errors of their ways;)

[PriorityOne]

This is pretty much the same situation as I have... only mine is with a Marbles card and HFC haven't sold it on yet....

 

The letter you received from HFC is exactly the same, word for word, as the one I got.... must be one of their templates.

 

[PGH7447]

Subscribing, going down HFC and GM Card route myself, with CrapQuest who sent me an application form with none of the proscribed conditions on from 1994

 

Good Luck

 

PGH7447