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    • Hi thanks so much for the update and all the information. I will get my reading glasses on and look at the claim info and court info.  I agree let’s proceed issuing a letter straight away.  I am happy to stump the fees for court and am confident we will win.  The police officer I have dealt with has secured further CCTV evidence which I will ask a solicitor friend to get hold of from the Hermes parcel shop should we need any further evidence the parcel was dropped and collected.  Once I have read all the pages on here I will start putting the letter together and post on here for further advice.  thanks again,  mark 
    • The reason that I have indicated that it is the seller who should bring an action against Hermes is not because they are the seller – but because they are the person who suffered the loss. If you haven't suffered a loss then you probably don't have the status – locus standi – to bring a court action. Of course there is a slight problem that you didn't enter into the contract with Hermes – the purchaser did. Until 1999 this would have been a problem and would have prevented you from bringing any kind of action at all – at least on the basis of contract. However, since 1999, the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act gives the beneficiary of any contract full third party rights as if they were a contracting party. The only exception to this is that if the contract specifically excluded non-contracting parties – and I'm not aware that Hermes has yet amended their contract to try and prevent this. Of course as usual, Hermes will make a big point about the fact that no insurance was purchased. Hopefully you have been reading around the threads on this sub- forum and you have seen that our view is that it is completely unfair and in fact it is absurd to require a customer to pay money to protect Hermes or any other service provider from the consequences of their own negligence or the criminality of their own employees. Every time this point has been raised with Hermes in mediation, Hermes have settled and we consider that it is because they want to avoid going to court to get a definitive judgement that their insurance scam – is precisely that – a scam. On the basis of what I understand here, this is more than just negligence there is criminality and your bike has been stolen. You've already begun a complaint and you have been knocked back and so I think there's no point in mucking around and I think that you should simply issue a letter of claim to Hermes giving them 14 days to settle in full or else you will begin a court action. Make sure that you have read around the forum about taking a small claim in the County Court. It's very easy but you need to be aware of the steps. If you send the letter of claim, then don't expect that they are suddenly going to refund you your money. They won't. They will force you to issue the court papers and who will then force you to pay the hearing fee. At this point, they will opt for mediation and they will try to knock you down and get your compromise in your claim. You should stand your ground and refused to compromise even a single penny. We will help you all the way. You seem to be a seller and a purchaser here who are getting on very well together and so as you are motivated by a common purpose, you may want to get an agreement where you decide to share the fees of court action – which won't be very much. I haven't checked the court fees for this value claim – but I expect that the whole thing will be only about £120. Of course you will get that back when you win – but bear in mind there is a is a slight risk factor and that means that £120 would be the extent of your risk and would be the maximum that you would lose. It is inconceivable that you would lose. You should be claiming the cost of the bike, the cost of delivery, plus interest which is presently 8% – a very good rate in today's economic climate. Of course you will also claim back your court fees. If you want to proceed then please let us know and let us know also that you have read around the stories and also the steps involved taking a small claim in the County Court and that you understand what you are doing. If you do your basic reading over the next couple of days then we can help you draft a letter of claim on Sunday and you can send it off on Monday. I would recommend that you post your draft letter of claim on this forum so we can check it. Keep it short and to the point.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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abroadgirl v Abbey

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i filed N1 and due to file judgement on monday if not heard nothing by then ,, yea i read thread but i already filed so,,,,,, maybe if they ask for stay i can sort something out ,, but ty for help is appreciated :)

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Hi ABG and hello there Zootscoot I've seen the green circly thing lit so you are out there.:D

Has everyone gone to bed it's quiet at this end, Jeez look at the time:eek:

Us allnighters again eh!;)

well I'm not suprised courts are getting harder to find arent they.

Got another webmaster reply on 'which banks' etc get back to that soon, time for a glass of water. cant do with the alchohol thingy, it makes you say things that dont make sense unless somebody else is speaking the same language then all you do is giggle:D :D :D hic! only kidding!!

speak to you soon, and keep going everybody who's listening and watching!!

Hey mr banker I'm coming for my money, and I'm gonna have some extra interest to add tee hee hee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


stay fresh peeps (it's ma new catchphrase!)lol

regards as always


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Abbey are treating their customers like MUSHROOMS, as they always have done, by keeping then in the dark and feeding them BS. I got a page and a half letter from them yesterday explaining OFT action and the futility of my continuing to pursue them through the courts as a blanket stay has been applied for. Do they think we don't have telephones, that we are not in touch with the courts? Until such as i receive a letter from the courts infirming me officially that my case is stayed I will continue to prepare for my case on the 17th. The Shabbey have untill Saturday to provide me with their bundle or I will be off to the courts to seek a solution from the District Judge. I cannot understand how an organisation as big as the Abbey can conduct itself in such a manner, treating not only its customers but the legal system in the country with such utter contempt. Unfortunately I think they will continue to adopt the "Ostrich" approach to the bitter end. I can imagine that if they ever had the bottle to turn up at a hearing they and their representation would just sit there with their fingers in their ears going "La La La LA LA can't hear you" Its a shame the Abbey management havn't put away their childish things before this. WE WILL NOT GO AWAY OR BE FOBBED OFF UNTIL WE ARE HEARD !!


I wonder who got out the wrong side of the bed this morning?

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morning deadlykiss,

if i was you i would still do it and also send it to the bank i sent 2 of them go on it wont hurt i faxed mine to the court with a letter its never too late fax it to them if not send bank and cout them acts i did as i didnt know at the time but i sent mine to them its better late than never honest



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Hi psm,


well done for that and don't give up the fight, remember you will have your next day in court, and if the worst case scenario happens, it just means they have a temporary stop on paying you out, and I know it's probably not what you want to hear, with Crimbo looming (christmas) it's a right kick in the utensiles but on the brighter side, you can add a bit more interest to it. lol


Atleast you got a date and a meeting with the judge, I can't even put my Request for Judgement accepted, Halifax Court is on a Blanket Stay thanks to the Bradford District Judge:mad:


good luck on the 17th, and I really hope you succeed as we need some good news.


stay fresh peeps





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hi everyone i have enjoyed reading your posts i will answer them asap as i have alot to do at the moment and also want to let you know my update and what has happened

i emailed inga and i faxed london shabbey grabby

okay i emailed them again for a settlement....yes you guessed no reply for either reguarding the settlement...

teatime and last night bout 7pm ring ring omg its abbey i thought they were going ot offer me an offer no i dont think so.............

it was about my sttement for june after all this time woohoooo they arnt slow are they june statement in aug infact may/june and they have only just contacted me about this guess what it suppose to be comming ok i thought u are going to get it while you are on the phone you have reffered me to drbt management in edinburough about the on going charges since jan 9th this year for a cheque which was returned cause my disability went in the next day u returned it u charged me for this ok then the next was a payment for 23 pounds odd in which i have it in black nwhite it was refunded yet you have charged me every month up till you closing my account 26th june in which you are suppost to give me 30 days notice you didnt let me know and these charges have gone on since the 9th jan 07 and you have done this to me he said they shouldnt have continued ongoing like that i said yes i know you shouldnt but you have done so will you contact the debt management and cancel this on going charges which is over 300 pounds i am sorry i carnt do this you will have to do it me i said i think you should do it after all it is abbey that has refered me to this company i am sorry madame i cannot do this ok i said i will tell them when they phone me as they do so can you make a note of this on my file on your computor so that if they cintact you they will have it there infront of them and while you are on the phone i have recived a letter from you and says about an open offer i havent been sent an offer or nothing i have faxed your london office and inga solicitor for shabbey and i have had no reply perhaps you can put that down and that i am waiting for an offer etc that was my convo with him...........i will now put in the letter i have recived from grabby shabbey in my next post



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Dear Madam,

Your claim in relation to unauthorised bank charges is currently being litigated in the county court. Althought we belive the charges are fair and unlawful since you have filed your claim in court abbey along with other six other banks and building soiciety has become involed in legal proceedings with the oft in relation to unautherised overdraft bank charges. We belive this will be resolved the issues reguarding the fairness and legalalty of your unautheried bank charges.

Pending the outcome of the test case we are asking the county courts to stay all claims relating to unartherised overdraft bank charges. A stay means that the case be put on hold.If your claim has not yet already been stayed then, we have a written or will shortly be writing to the county court seeking a stay of your legal claim as a result your case is likely to be put on hold untill the outcome of the test case is known.

\given the court case we have asked the fsa to suspend the normal timetable for dealing with bank charges complaints and the fsa has agreed to this request subject to conditions that protect complaints rights.

We have also asked the fos not to proceed with any other case they are hearing untill the test case be resolved. FOS has indecated that as a general propostion it will indeed not proceed with cases which rely on the legal issues being considered in the test case.

Exactly what will happen next will depend on the courts we do not know how long the test case will take we have promised to proceed as quickly as possible but inevitably given the importance of the issues being considered this may take many months to resolve. We will keep you updated appropraitly in respect of the proceedings with the OFT. You can also check the lastest posion on our website at Abbey

in the intrim please retain your bank records as this will make it easier for you to support your legal claim on resolution of the test case we can assure you that we have kept a record of your legal claim. part 2 cont

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last page............................

last page read..................... ..

We may have written to you recently to make you a goodwill offer in full and final settlement of your legal claim provided that you have not rejected that offer the goodwill will offer the banks has made to you still stands and will be honoured.

If you wish to take up this offer the bank will take this acceptance as full and final settlement of your legal claim to acept this offer you must contact the within 2 working months of the date of this letter if you accept the offer as a fulland final settlement it is highly unlikely you will be awarded a futher sum at a later stage even if the test case established you were otherwise entitled to a larger amount. However this does not preclude you from asking for repayment of any future charges if the court findsw they are unlawful.

please contact us if u are not sure wether you have an open offer or not

after the test case is finished once the legal proceedings between OFT and that the banks have finished we will resolve your legal claim as quickly as possible applying the principles established in the test case. which may generate a larger or smaller figure when compared with any currant offer we may have made.

The FSA requires us to ensure that your legal claim will not be affected by the stay ot your court proceedings.

end...................... ......................... ......................... ..................

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Standard letter I am afraid. And, if what happend to marmite-girl is anything to go by we can expect some pre pubescent spotty oik turning up at our hearing pleading for a stay. These recent developments and the way the abbey and other banks have cynically manipulated the judicial system has seriously shaken my faith in the British justice system, again it is the case that money speaks volumes. I just hope the OFT have the courage to make a proper fist of the test case and resists the urge to accept a piecemeal resolution that leaves ordinary people high and dry.

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hi psm, ty for your reply di

Claim Number:XXXXXXX


In the XXXXXXXX County Court





















I strongly object to the proposed order of a stay in respect of the claim detailed above upon the following grounds;


Human rights


It would infringe my rights under the European Convention on Human Rights directly and as enacted in the Human Rights Act 1998. Article 6 of the Convention provides that;


“1. In the determination of his civil rights… everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time.”


It is submitted that the ordering of a stay as proposed is not reasonable. The 8 banks involved in the High Court test case have recently published identical statements on their websites informing customers that they expect the test case to last for over a year. Moreover, the nature and gravity of the case is such that any judgment is highly likely to be appealed to the Court of Appeal and possibly even then appealed further to the House of Lords. It is entirely conceivable that a final resolution may not be reached for 2 – 3 years or perhaps even longer. It is thus submitted that the period of any proposed stay cannot be accurately predicted and would therefore in effect be indeterminate, which is contrary to the right of entitlement to a fair hearing within a reasonable time as provided for by Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998.


The Overriding Objective


The Overriding Objective requires that my case is allowed to proceed speedily so that a just settlement may be obtained by the parties to this case. Dealing with cases justly includes ensuring that this case is dealt with expeditiously and fairly and in a way that is proportionate to the amount of money involved. It is submitted that the imposition of an indeterminate stay in a small claims track case involving a reletively small sum, at such an advanced stage in proceedings, is not just, nor is it expeditious, nor is it fair on a claimant who has outlaid sums by way of court fees in pursuit of a legitimate right to seek a remedy.


Balance of convenience


The sum claimed is insignificant to the bank but it is highly significant to me. Furthermore, although a stay prevents me from recovering my money, the defendant bank is not prevented from levying its charges or interest on debt comprised of those charges so the order of the court has the effect of favouring a powerful and well-resourced institution and does not place any restriction on their continued application of charges which I say are unlawful. Further, many banks are now routinely closing the accounts of their customers who commence claims against them. This amounts to a sanction for seeking a ruling from the justice system and as such is a basic denial of citizenship. I will remain at risk of such action despite the fact that my remedy has been placed on an indeterminate hold.


Additionally, the defendant remains at liberty to enter my name on the default register which it and other banks routinely do in respect of unlawful penalties which are unpaid by their customers. The banks have direct and privileged access to this register. They have no need to obtain a County Court judgment before they may enter a default on the register. This default remains on the register for 6 years and causes enormous damage to reputations. Were my name to be entered on the default register I would find it impossible to get credit or a mortgage and I would have to pay higher fees for any credit which I did manage to obtain. The banks would also remain at liberty to bring legal proceedings against me for the recovery of any debt which mostly or entirely consists of penalty charges, penalty charges which are contended to be unlawful, but which consumers would be helpless to challenge in the event that stays are imposed on any claim where a customer is seeking to dispute the lawfulness of them.


It is submitted that a stay may potentially mean great difficulty for me and yet be insignificant for the defendant bank. In fact a stay is supportive of the banks litigation strategy which is to frustrate justice by repeatedly taking the claimant to the door of the court and then to settle the claim.


The Status Quo


The stay does not maintain the status quo. As submitted above, a stay favours the bank by preventing the claimant’s pursuit of its legitimate remedy without placing any restriction upon the banks activities which I submit are unlawful and/or retaliatory.


Furthermore, as submitted above the present case concerns a relatively small sum and is at a late stage in proceedings, and therefore I submit that to impose an indeterminate stay is unnecessary, inappropriate, not in the interests of justice and further, is detrimental to my rights in a way which is unfair and inequitable.


In the alternative


In view of the preceding paragraphs, if the court accedes to the defendant’s application for a stay notwithstanding these objections, I respectfully request that the court issues the following injunctions:

  • That the defendant bank is prevented from applying further penalty charges to my account until the final settlement of the matter.
  • That the defendant is prevented from applying interest charges to any outstanding amounts which are comprised of penalties until the settlement of the matter.
  • That the defendant is prevented from closing my account.
  • That the defendant is prevented from making any entry on its own systems or from communicating any similar information to any third party about any matter insofar as it relates to penalty charges until the final settlement of the matter.
  • That the defendant removes any derogatory entry on its own records insofar as it relates to penalty charges. (The Court has the power to do this under the Data Protection Act 1998 )
  • That the defendant arranges the removal of entries from the records of any third parties to whom it has previously communicated information insofar as it relates to penalty charges. (The Court has the power to do this under the Data protection Act 1998.)
  • That these injunctions remain in place until the settlement of my claim.
  • That should my claim proceed to a hearing that a decision should be made at the hearing as to whether these injunctions should be made permanent.
  • That if the matter should not proceed to a hearing because the defendant decides to settle outside court, that these injunctions should become permanent.

I, the Claimant, believe all facts stated to be true.







d u see the post about my call when shabbey phoned me last night?

anyway i dont know if i have done right but here is what i have just faxed my court.

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i have gone throu the stages of claiming back my charges like everyone here okay i am at the stage where district judge xxxxxxx has said that between both abbey & i we have to see if we can come to a settlement by 17th aug. 07

up to now i havent had any offer or anything apart from a letter i got yesterday the normal about the test case etc.

so before i got his i have emailed inga and faxz abbey in londaon about a settlement.


so i was just wondering when and at what stage do you get a court date or now what happens after the 17th august

thankyou for any info help advise

oh yes i have gone ahead any faxed a withdrawal of a stay.

abbey said there going to apply for a stay this is why i sent mine ty for reading and any help info advise please


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Hi, I would say that the chances of you getting a court date this side of christmas is doubtful, they seem to be putting all claims on stay now pending the outcome of the test case, even if you do get a court date, dont get excited as you might turn up there and be told that it is stayed.


Sorry about that ABG



Lula v Abbey - Settled

Lula v Abbey (2) - Settled

Lula v Abbey (3) - Stayed


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got a letter from grabbey shabbey informing me after all this time they have closed my account 26th june never let me know and they are supposed to give 30 days notice they didnt me



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update on me

morning all,

just a quick update

seen the dr

had ECG n tests


slight murmour & palpittations





ok now shabbey has till tomorrow to offer settlement ordered by district judge xxxxx so what do i do i i dont hear anything

ty in advance




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morning chris,

how are you

sorry for the lack of posting here

well shabbey was suppose to settle with me by the 17th august instead i got all the nonsence the sham letter about the oft case etc so i faxed them and heard nothing as i dont think it should be stayed i also faxed the courts as well blackpool county court district judge xzxxx

so now i await then on saturday i gets this oh i emailed ronan yes nothing

heres what i got on saturday

Dear Mrs xxxxxxxxxx

As you know we are currently looking into your account and it has now been eight weeks since you contacted abbey ( i dont thinkso)

I am sorry for the delay while we continue to look into your complaint. Although we have made progress we want to make sure we fully understand the problem before writing and we are unable to give you a fukll response just now

What are they talking about here

If you dont want to wait any long you can go to the fos now without waiting for our response i am enclosing the booklet that tells you what you need to do i hope you will give us the opportunity to complete our work and we will continue to look into your complaint unless you advise us the ombudsman service advise us they are taking over it we will write to you again when we have finished our review and if you remain unhappy you still have the right to contact the ombudsman



so what reply do you give them i know what i would like to say




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i have just emailed ronan again this morning here is what i have put


Dear Ronan,


As i have not had a reply from you i am writing to to once again.

I still have had no offer of a settlement or an open offer referred to in a letter from abbey.

I am aware of the "OFT Test Case" in which i have replied as this is an ongoing case and not a new one i shall be grateful if you could update me as what offer or open offer abbey has in mind i have complied with all correspondence from everyone concerning abbey in which i have been back in touch with Blackpool County Court district judge law who gave abbey and myself time to arrange a settlement this was before the OFT Test Case, therefore i do not see as to why i should be put on hold.

I look forward to your reply in this matter

Thanking You

Yours sincerely


R. Miller



now i have to inform the courts?



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go for it, i would have also stated that as the 'Test Case' has not even started as of yet AND is unlikely to start before OCTOBER 2007 (and that is at it's earliest) then how can you justify quoting a stay pending the ongoing/outcome of the 'TEST CASE' when the so called 'TEST CASE' theoretically does not even exist!! Thats like asking how long is a peice of string!:mad:


Also I hope thats a spelling mistake on your post #150 regarding 'giving you a fu$ll response' lol:D ;)


mr manager I know your watching check this out:

KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKERRRRRRRRRRRCHINNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGG Another £1.26 daily interest thanks makes it all worth waiting for!!!!:cool:


stay fresh peeps




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hi chris tyvm for your reply lol

please can i ask for your help again

what kind of letter do i put to the courts

or is there a link you know i can use please

and wow i didnt know that the so called oft case dosent even start till oct 27th oct cheek so i am now going to fax shabbey




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after me trying to fax ronan all day yesterday i phoned him in london this morning

got his answer machine then wow got a reply via email here it is

then i will copy my letter back to him to put here




Without Prejudice"

Dear Ms Miller


I can inform you, that having looked at your file, there is no open offer from Abbey to settle your claim, therefore, Abbey will be applying to your county court to have your claim stayed pending the outcome of the test case with the OFT.


Yours sincerely


Ronan Coyle


on behalf of Abbey National Plc

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