abroadgirl v Abbey

[ICY]

Less than an hour to go

 

 

 

[stonedecroze]

firstly once again thank you for all you good wishes, they are really appreciated. this is how it went, we arrived at the court about 30 minutes early booked in and sat down to wait, after about 15 minutes a very smartly dressed lady came over to us and introduced herself as Mrs. ? Newstead ( sorry I have forgotten her christian name )and said that she was representing Abbey. She then handed us three documents reffering to other case that had lost their stay applications. The first on the Human Rights argument, ( 1 case ) the second on the Overriding Objective argument ( 3 cases ) and the third Balance of Convenience/ In the Alternative ( 4 cases. (seems they all used CAG templates?) ). On these she would base he objections. At ten past two we were called to the Judges Chambers, all very informal where we introduced ourselves to the Judge, who bore a remarkable resemblance to Paul Daniels In fact I kept expecting him to sau " you are going to like this, not a lot, but you will like it" LOL ABG explained that it was her wish that I speak on her behalf and this was agreed, somewhat reluctantly by Abbey`s Council (she seemed miffed when Judge asker her if she was a barrister, so presumably the sent a fairly large gun ), any how I asked if judge minded if I read out skeleton argument as I really had not had great amount of time to prepare more arguments. He decided that they would be quicker reading it for themselves , he got through his fairly quickly, but Ms Abbey Rep was slower and making copious notes, He then asked me if I had any further to add I replied that I felt it prob. for best that if there were any questions I would endevour to answer these he agreed and queyed one or two minor points and asked Abbey if she had any and she replied this is all new and was unprepared. judge then asked me if I had any other reason why stay should be lifted in view of test case startin on monday and expected to be settled in 8 days , the way he asked the question that the only answer I could give was no without making a fool of my self. he then went into general conversation abot test case, how some arguments had already been ruled on in many cases and he would not go counter to these rulings he then cross examined Abbey re taking charges from benefits saying there was no guidance for him on this issue, abbey jumped in here and produced book of relevant legislation and quoted sections we had used ( note Steven) and stated "in my opinion these sections refer to loan sharks, unscupulious hp companies and other undesirables having access to clients funds , like pension book [problem] that used to go on" and banks remarked the judge to wich she made no reply. Judge then said he would not rule on this issue as case must be decided in high court by someone taking back to court specificaly to stop them taking these charges and nat as part of a claim. (was this some advice I am wondering) he then informed us that he would not lift the stay for several reason but mainly the close date of test case, and that he had been incontact with Abbey in regard to this and other cases and they had said they would appeal decision pending out come of test case so really there was no point in lifting stay other than to waste everyones time. so there we go we did not win but do not feel that we lost either, and went away both of us with the impression that had the test case not been so near then we would have won He was very symathetic to us, and at times short with Abbey rep. Oh and before I forget after he gave his ruling I asked about altering ABGs claim to which he agreed and stated that he would record this in his ruling, Abbey were not keen, saying that we could ask at later date to amend claim but he insisted no I will enter it in ruling and then ABG can just send amendment to the court to be attached to claim. I asked if another N244 application would be required and again he said no, just send polite letter to court.

 

So we didn`t get stay set aside, But I don`t think anyone will now with test case just around corner

 

 

[steven4064]

Stone

 

Firstly a great big Well Done.

Our feeling is that, given how this case stood a fews days ago, not having it thrown out is an achievement. The fact that abg can now alter her claim without any extra expense is a huge bonus. It was always going to be hard to get the stay lifted - the number of successes is not great . So close to the test case, even more so.

 

I think you are right - this is not a win but it certainly isn't a loss either. I think your hard work hsa put abg in a much stronger position once the dust settles.

 

[jailbird]

Well done both of you. It was never going to be easy being so close to test case but you stood your ground and more to the point managed to have your say.

 

Chris

[elsinore]

Congratulations ABG and Stone, I think that's a good result. The claim remains on the table to be heard at a later date.

 

Els:)

[Lula]

yes I am with Els in this one, you got an agreement to be able to amend without an N244, they wont have liked that, well done Stone, it is a good result

[jansus]

Hi

 

yes well done - some interesting comments regarding the charges against benefits. This result was as I expected - however I still feel that Abbey should be bought to task for not adhering to the FSA agreement and allowing this case to go to court. It should have been dealt with outside the system as a hardship case. Also do we really think the case will be "over" in 8 days?

 

Hope the afternoon was not too stressful for those involved.

 

I think ABG, have a rest - watch the case - and then go from there.Use it as an opportunity to re-charge your batteries and gather any more relevant info on our particular case (particularly benefits angle)- and keep on fighting. You have a whole army behind you now.

 

Jan:)

[stonedecroze]

Hi

 

yes well done - some interesting comments regarding the charges against benefits. This result was as I expected - however I still feel that Abbey should be bought to task for not adhering to the FSA agreement and allowing this case to go to court. It should have been dealt with outside the system as a hardship case. Also do we really think the case will be "over" in 8 days?

 

 

Jan:)

 

 

What I think the DJ was telling us is that he is in agreement with our view on what this sections mean, but that someone has to take the banks to court for taking charges from their account on this count only and not as a part of a small claim to get charges refunded. That way a definative ruling can be made clarifying this grey area. Abbey rep was NOT impressed with a lot of his observations on this subject.

[jailbird]

They would not be impressed. They like the rest of us have probably suffered ' mushroom syndrome ' kept in the dark and fed a load of s**t ! But they, unlike us, are paid to be fed this.

[steven4064]

Stone - your PM box is full (hopefully by well-wishers)

[stonedecroze]

It is clear now,

[caro]

Well done abg and stone. Sounds like your efforts were not in vain. I don't really think you could have expected any better a result this close to the test case.

[steven4064]

It is clear now,

Yes, thanks.

 

BTW, was this Judge Law? Is your case still before him?

[abroadgirl]

good morning all

again i cannot thank all of you enough and stone who was a real gem tyvvvvvmto a xxxx

 

stone has put everything in here so really there is no need for me to repeat although stone has put it better than me ty

now i feel i want to go all the way and go too the courts about the ruleing of the benefits etc what do you think stone shall we be the first then lol

 

also the judge said before he started that he HAD read my paperwork and that for his resons he sympathies with me and ghee i carnt think of the other word he said can you remember stone what it was i felt he was for me and stone my hubby and i really thought he was going to lift the stay didnt we stone,

once again thavvvm and for all your good wishes

hugs abg

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[abroadgirl]

forgot to say that yes it was judge law himself

and he turn to abbey rep and said abbey was wrong at at fault she sat reading the notes and makeing points before we went in and that i thought oh god look at all them etc i looked at stone and bless he looked at me nodded with a smile as much as to say dont worry love we have alot more to go on than her lol

but she didnt point anything out apart from what stone had said but i had to laugh to myself as when (dont know if stone seen it) but when they were reading the papers that stone gave to them the dj had read and then glanced at the rest and we all sat there waiting for the rep abbey think her name was jen, to finish reading hers she really read most of it as she kept looking at the judge then carried on now n then she would look up at the rep then she just glanced throu the rest and kinda give a sie, so she didnt read the rest as she must have felt embarresed all waiting for her heeheehehehe

we all left at about nearly 23pm so we were in a while with dj law he was smaller than me im only 5 1 with a stretch abbey rep must have felt at a loss well thats how she looked to me anyway

oh stone you forgot to say

wait for it

are you allowed to shake there hands?

well guess what

i held my hand out to shake his hand

i wanted to give him a what we call a proper hand shake omg that dont sound write hahahaha

and his hand shake to me you would say it wasnt a genuine one he shook my hand like the queen does finger tips if u know what i mean

yes abg shook the judges hand hahahahahahahah

arh well

if i am write he also said he felt that the case want strong enough to have the stay lifted although he sided with me as i only told the truth and that with the oft case being near etc

what do es every thing the outcome will be?

think this also will be an interesting debate dont you on here

once again tyavvvvvvm

love ya all

hugs

abg

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[abroadgirl]

think the other word was respects and symphaises am i right stone

hugs

abg

[ohoh4312]

Well done you two. From what I have read this DJ is a bit of a tough cookie, so you did amazingly well to get him on-side. Your preparation and arguments seem to hit the spot.

 

You should be very proud of yourselves.

 

A big pat on the back for Stone for being such a trooper.

 

Well done again.

 

Lotsa luv

 

Jo xx

[stonedecroze]

Yes, thanks.

 

BTW, was this Judge Law? Is your case still before him?

 

 

Yet it was Steven and yes my own case is before him, so I will have to get my arguments in really top order to impress him again.

In my own case I have only the one grounds for argument of abuse of process where as with ABG we had hardship also which I think the judge took into account.

BTW Jo he was a pussy cat.

[abroadgirl]

hi stone i need to get the acts of the benefits printed out and i canrnt find them with hurring up can u get them hugs abg

[steven4064]

ABG

 

Social Security Administrtaion Act 1992

 

Tax Credits Act 2002

 

But see my post here before you do anything

[jansus]

Hi abg

 

just checking how you are?

 

jan

[abroadgirl]

hi jan & everyone

how are you all

im not too bad ty

has anyone heard from or heard how the oft test case is going

hugs

abg

x

[steven4064]

All quiet ATM

[abroadgirl]

hello everyone how are you all

i got the letter today from the court and it was judge bryce i thought it was judge law mmmmmm

i will put it in for u all to see

so now i have to write a letter stone hi what type of letter do i have to do and include charges and interest etc apart from that what kind of letter do i have to do now

okay here it is...................

 

 

ORDER In The Blackpool County Court

 

Parties xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ABBEY NATIONAL PLC

 

 

 

AT A HEARING ON TUESDAY 8TH jANUARY 2008 before District Judge Bryce sitting at The law Courts Chapel Street Blackpool, Lancashire

 

the judge heard the Claimant in person: and council for the Defendant

and made the following Order

 

1) The Claimant's application to be remove the stay is dismissed.

 

2) It is recorded that the value of the claim is £3117.02 plus interest.

 

 

end

 

 

hugs abg

[stonedecroze]

Hi ABG,

I thought it was Judge Law as well,:o:o

What you need to do now is go through all your bank statements again and enter them all into that spreadsheet that I gave you and see how much they come to, the letter can wait for a while yet as nothing much will happen until we get the ruling from the test case. I am tied up with my hearing at the moment and after that I am Going to look after my old mum for a couple of weeks, so I will be out of things till mid Feb. When I get back I will call you and see how we can go from there. Keep smiling, Stone