abroadgirl v Abbey

[jansus]

To XXXXbank

 

 

From XXXXX

Reference account number XXXXXXX

Dear sir / madam

 

I refer to several previous letters reagrding the above account. As you are aware there is due to be a hearing regarding the lifting of the stay at XXXX court on XXXXX

 

I wish to strongly complain that when you are fully aware of my circumstances that you have refused to consider my case outside the court system as is indicated by the conditions of the waiver.

 

 

Therefore I wish to draw to your attention a condition of the waiver of claims regarding Overdraft charges . This is an extract from:

FSA waiver statement 27/7/2007 & Memo to Treasury select committee 9/10/2007

“Consumers can still complain about new charges incurred.

Consumers who have received a final response from the bank/building society which does not include an offer

Consumers still have the option of complaining to FOS. However, the banks and building societies have also requested that the FOS does not consider any complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges until resolution of the test case.

Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS.

Consumers who want to complain to the bank/building society about other issues

Consumers can continue to use the existing complaints process to seek redress about other financial matters, such as insurance, mortgages and current accounts. However, if their complaint relates to the level, fairness or unlawfulness of unauthorised overdraft charges, that element of the complaint will be registered but not dealt with.”

Also as I am sure you are aware the banking code requirement for banks to deal with persons in financial difficulty sympathetically and positively has not been affected by the waiver.

 

 

 

I feel there is nothing to be gained at this point from questioning the level of charges applied; my position is merely that the agreement reached between the banks, FSA, FOS and OFT prior to the OFT v banks case being submitted to the High Court at the end of July clearly states that responsibility for determining and resolving a ‘hardship case’ lies with the bank, that the waiver granted to banks, allowing complaints re charges to be held pending the outcome of the High Court case does not apply to ‘hardship’ cases, and banks should therefore seek to identify and resolve such cases; further that where agreement cannot be reached between a customer and a bank the bank must issue a final response letter as a precursor to the FOS seeking to resolve matters.

 

My further position is that I firmly believe it will be possible for you to address my concerns such that I deem the matter settled negating any need for involvement of the FOS or closer to home the continued involvement of the Chief Executives office.

 

 

I am therefore (again) identifying myself to you to one of the cases where the excessive charges have been a cause or have worsened my present position . I (again)attach a summary of my present position for your consideration. As my case has now been in progress for XXXX weeks I would expect a response within 14 days.

 

If I do not receive a reply within this time I will have refer this matter to the FOS and FSA

If you are unwilling to consider my request then you are under obligation to provide me with a written response indicating that you do not consider my case to be one of financial hardship and the reasons why together with your specific criteria on which you are basing your refusal .

 

I would again point out there has been considerable correspondence and phone calls concerning this matter before – and I regret having to bring this to your attention again ( attach any written copies)

 

The fact that I have commenced legal action is not a factor as the ability of the banks to request stays was made with proviso that banks would continue to consider hardship cases.

The basis of the financial hardship I am experiencing is: - (attach Personal sheet )

As indicated, I do not, with respect, wish to revisit the question of the fairness of the charges, or of whether some element of each charge was fair.

 

I fully believe that my difficulties meet any definition or criteria of hardship.

My total claim at the moment stands at £xxxxx excluding S69 interest.

 

Many thanks for agreeing to examine matters. I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Kind regards,

[jansus]

Hi

 

I suggest you re-type this adding anything else personal- such as dates of previous letters phone calls etc

 

Attach a brief statement - or the income /expenditure sheet on here.

 

Send to the Abbey and a copy to the solicitor

 

Then post up the reply on here

 

does that help?

 

Jan

 

Also if you were not on the list sent to the FSA - please let me know as we are still collecting cases

 

Jan

[abroadgirl]

hi janus tyvm thats a brill letter tyvm

yes i emailed about sept/oct for the hardship cases and if successfull that they would contact me as ive not heard anything as yet i carnt remember if it was to alanfromdarby not sure but i sent the email where mods said and where to email to

think i still have the copy but again i know you all have alot so this is why i sent it and just waiting as i know one way or another id hear something

tyvm one and all

hugs

abg

[abroadgirl]

happy belated birthday wishes to our very owm

simon

was his birthday yesterday

happy birthday to those who had a birthday yesterday as well

also happy birthday to my hubby its his today 18th

happy birthday to those who is celerbrating there birthdays today as well

hugs

abg

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxx

vbrep_register("1241154")

[jansus]

having seen simons good news - hope you keep going - I am sure the intervention of th FOS had some influence;)

 

jan

[abroadgirl]

hi jan

tyvm for popping in

its great news for simon and yes im keeping it up ghee i wish they would just pay up like we are all wanting im off now in simons thread its great news for him

sp8 soon

hugs

abroadgirl

xxxxxx

[chrisking1962]

Hi ABG,

How are you, again I'm sorry I've been away, trying to get my roof up on my conservatory, (short of funds past 2 years, would you believe it due to bank charges!! lol) and what with the weather changing, (can't blame the banks for that!) i'm a bit busy.

Thanks for the reputation mark.

Anyway, I'm a bit peed off at the moment to say the least as my account with Nationwide has gone awol. I went into cancell ALL my D/D's and S/O's in the middle of last month (October) and thought nothing more of it, I stopped my salary going in from this month and guess what, I got my statement through for October/November and the Nationwide did'nt cancell them and have slapped a (GET THIS) £682.00 worth of charges on to the statement!

I went down to the Halifax branch and asked Why this had occurred, she did explain that due to the administration side of things being removed from the Branch and now being dealt with at a different area, they no longer cancel them at branch level (administrative cut backs).

If I were to contact head office and ask for the JASMIN dept and explain the situation that there should not be an issue as all account log on details made at branch are fully recorded and timed as to exactly when any account log on was made at the branch, this should clarify that access was made in branch BEFORE any D/D's or S/O's were due to go out and that a print out was made of the same, unfortunatley when oyu sign the print out to say that these have been cancelled you forget to ask for a copy and get the same signed by the person dealing with it at the time.

I have had to re do it all again and the clerk actually got me to sign individually every single D/D and S/O canelation request and then gave me a print out of the whole account with a little note on the bottom of it explaining my previous visit to cancel these items and gladly signed it.

Now to contact JASMIN at Nationwide and rip into them.

 

Hope you've got some good news with your Hardship Case. It's discusting the way the banks are using the 'Test Case' to not pay out, it's just a matter of time before they wish they never even started the case and just paid up.

Don't they realise they could have settled up with everyone who had, has and is going to have a claim by now and reset their charges (oh which if people havent noticed on their statements, are now being called 'Fee's!)

what a get out clause! and could be merely continuing to take money from their abbiding clientel, albeit not as much.

Have you also noticed now that 'First Direct' is advertising a bit like Lloyds, regarding letting you know you are going to be overdrawn JUST before you are, so you then get until 3pm THAT day to pay funds into your account to prevent any charges being added to your account (sorry FEE's)

I said that the other banks would follow Lloyds overdrawn alert, did'nt take long did it!

 

Stay fresh peeps

 

regards

chris xx

[abroadgirl]

hiya chris or bless u will get there honest it is bloody awful the carrying on with the banks fees indeed and what a carry on with yours claim them back i didnt have the chance they closed mine without telling me but i am still carring on with them i have a date 8th jany at 2pm to be honest im sh*****g myself as i can be a nervery person but i say no i am going to be strong and i have to be strong its awful isnt it

are u claiming them back and it is there fault u closed and cancelled go get them chris

i am sorry but i have to dash for now stay strong

loveloy to see u

hugs

abg

[abroadgirl]

morning all

well im here popping in as im full of the flu

how are you all

hope you are all keeping up your sprits and attacking shabbey

wouldnt it be lovely if they would pay us all out in time for christmas esp us with the hardships we are facing esp now chrimbo is comming

oh please dont anyone who get a teddy call it M*****d oooppppppsssss!!!

well keep up the fight and

if i can help anyone or anything in my thread helps you please do help yourselfs

take care

keep warm

hugs

abg

[stonedecroze]

Hi ABG, sorry to hear you have flu, hope you get rid of it soon.

I have had my hearing changed to 28th Jan so was able to go off and enjoy my hols. If you want some company for your hearing, just ask I will be more than happy to come along and give you some moral support.:grin::grin:

[jansus]

hi sorry to hear you have not been feeling well.

 

did you manage to get your letters off?

 

Have you had no reply

 

I expect you saw the case in A&L "my day in court" whwre they were supposed to have a court case in january - but after doing letter they have got their money?

 

Best wishes jan

 

L

[jansus]

hi janus tyvm thats a brill letter tyvm

yes i emailed about sept/oct for the hardship cases and if successfull that they would contact me as ive not heard anything as yet i carnt remember if it was to alanfromdarby not sure but i sent the email where mods said and where to email to

think i still have the copy but again i know you all have alot so this is why i sent it and just waiting as i know one way or another id hear something

tyvm one and all

hugs

abg

 

By the way I would not rely on getting a result on the basis of this as there were a whole group of cases sent as examples and personal details were not enclosed - so thats why I hope you have done your own letter since.

 

Also CRFX was dealing with the pushing of the FSA and he is not posting on the site any more .

 

Jan

[abroadgirl]

hi jan tyvm i havent heard anything as yet lol

will give it another go i will look in a & l thread

hjiya stone tyvvvm for the rep on scales ty

how was ur hols

wow 28th jany thats my birthday

i wish u well

not heard from simon i hope he is alright good luck to kia she is at court this morning at 9am

i still have the flu its rotton

take care all

hugs

abg

p.s. stone if u took me on hols i wouldnt have this flu u just dropped the bag and off u went n left me hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[jansus]

Hi just checking how you are - have you recieved any replies to letters - if not keep fighting

 

try doing what simon did - call the FOS and see if they can help.

 

Dont give up yet

 

Jan

[abroadgirl]

hi janus

ty for your post

message

 

it is in the hands of the fos i havent heard anything i hope so as if not i am in court 8th jany so then i will have to get things sorted out what i have to take with me

will keep you updated tyvm for all your help

hugs

abg

x

[abroadgirl]

merry christmas everyone

 

 

morning jan

still nothing apart from an acknowledgement letter from fos

hugs

abg

[jansus]

Hi

 

Hope you are having a good christmas

 

You have a few days before your hearing - what about one last letter posted to Abbey/sol andFOS - take a copy to the court.

 

 

 

Case number xxxxx

 

 

Hardship situation

I refer to all previous correspondence and my attempts to convey to you that as a hardship case my situation , under the terms of the waiver agreement, my claim should be considered outside the court system. I have no wish to take this matter to court but as you have ignored all my efforts to resolve this matter before January 8th - you have left me with no choice.

 

I am dissapointed that although you are fully aware of my circumstance you are willing to take this case so far, especially when I am well aware you have settled other hardship cases recently.

 

Regards

 

Then try calling the FOS and ask for their help

 

What have you to loose

 

 

Jan

[abroadgirl]

good morning all

hi jan

hope u all had a good christmas

well here is what i have recived from inga kirkman

bear in mind i havent had a reply to my letter/fax 6th dec 07

anyway i asked her about the charges coming out of benefits here is the 2 replies i got this morning

 

without prejudice

the courts dont like that

 

dear ms miller

abbey national plc has not ignored your efferts to resolve this matter your emails have been responded to on each occassion

yeah after me sending reminders and no mention of the faxes either

i confirm that abbey nation plc has been made aware of your correspondence and in view of the imminent commencement of the TEST CASE

LITIGARION MY KINSTRUCTIONS remain to object to your application seeking to lift the stay currently in place

***************************************************

 

2nd reply

 

Dear Madam

i have not personally examined your account and nor do i have access to your account to do so therefore i cannot respond to your question

however with respect your analyisis of the law in so far as it relates to any bank charges fees, which fees are paid out of the procceeds of any bank is incorrect.

************************************************

 

i dont understand that bit is inga kirkman saying that the DWP/SOCIAL SECURITY benefits acts are wrong?

or is she saying i am wrong that charges wasnt taken from benefits

i have it all here as it was the only payments going in my account DWP and mobility

thanks for any help please

abg

xx

[chrisking1962]

Hi ABG,

and a merry christmas to you and everyone reading.

Hope you are getting along well with your battle and looks like you will have to go all the way to the courts with this one, UNLESS they give in at the last minute.

I am totally amazed that the Judge at Blackpool CC has'nt helped you out nire regarding the hardship case, maybe he is waiting for the hearing so that he can set an example to the banks that despite the test case they should still be honouring certain cases like your own and prevent the matter being dragged through the system.

It won't be long before the first round of the test case is over (barring the garaunteed appeal the banks WILL make)!

Who'd have thought 6 months ago the announcement was made regarding the test case and it is already almost here!, I was thinking at the time, oh flipping heck (language it's christmas) thats a right downer, but it's flown bye. now to get back on track with the battles.

Good luck everyone, and I'll be routing for you ABG on the 8th. So stay cool and be calm when your there, let the just see the hard fight you have been through and don't forget to take as many letters, emails, faxes both sent and received on nyour long hard battle.

I wish you well and have a happy new year in 2008 starting with a victory at court.

Let the battle commence.

 

stay fresh peeps!

 

regards

chris

 

OH I forgot the last few posts. KERRRRRRRRRRRRCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG

another £1.26 interest earned. cheers mr Bank Manager.

[jansus]

Hi again

 

Other than a phone call to the FOS I am not sure what you can do. Why not try that at the begining of next week - explain it is urgent as your court case is imminent. Ask them how Abbey can do this when they are fully aware of your circumstances and the stress of the court case is pushing you to the edge and making you ill. It worked for Simon.

 

To be honest I dont think much will happen if it gets to court as the case is now so close the court wont have much choice - the best outcome will be that

 

1) you will have your say about what you think about Abbey

2) the court could rule that they freeze the charges on your account

3) you may get some clarification about imposing charges on benefits money ( I am not an expert on this )

 

the next stage after the court case would to ask this site if you can get any help with publicity about how they have treated you.

 

I would try and make some notes about what you want to talk about in court and take a copy of the agreement from the FSA website about why the bank should have considered your case outside the court system and take copies of all your emails and faxes showing how hard you have tried to keep this case out of court.

 

 

jan

[abroadgirl]

good morning jan & chris

tyvm for your replies i will def click ur scales again if i am allowed lol

to be honest i feel like giving up now i am so confused, i sent abbey the first letter regarding everything 6th dec they never replied untill the letters i posted here think it was 26th only had one reply to everything i sent fos....said they are busy and dealing with it etc

i got an acknoowledgement letter

i feel i cannot carry on any longer cannot cope and 8th jany running throu my mind all the time

i have seven hardback folders what do i take with me

what do i say

i havent a clue and i can get highly strung do i get a barrester do i not go

i really dont know what to do as i have tried n tried and now i am at a loss loose end

one thing i didnt tell u but have told fos but i didnt tell my doctor why but i did tell him i feel like ending it all i cannot cope any longer

still here is my lastedst email and then i faxed fos

 

heres what i faxed and emailed fos

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter dated 10/12/2007.

I have on the 26/12/2007, received a reply from Inga.Kirkman in which I am enclosing with this letter faxing to you.

I am somewhat puzzled as I have applied to abbey on hardship case but again this is the reply I have received.

I know I have faxed yourselves a few papers, but I didn’t think the social security benefit act wasn’t correct?

Also in the paper work I have got it states that FOS section 3.7

3.8

3.13

That banks should treat customers in financial difficulty positively and sympathetically which abbey has not in my case also, the subscriber should leave the customer with sufficient funds for day to day expensive abbey have left me heartbroken and as I said when I went into see the lady in my local branch all I got was I'm sorry there is nothing we can do I said what am I going to do you have left me with nothing till my next payment- nothing was done.

I am disappointed with abbey who they closed my account without telling me in june 2007-12-28 please could you be kind enough to email me or fax to tell me if these social security benefits acts are correct or not , if not I would like to know why it is printed on paper?

I am upset by all this which isnt helping my health at all abbey are to attend court with me on 8th jan 2008 and I feel I just cannot cope anylonger as this has been going on since december 2006 I did on one occasion go to my doctoers and told him I just feel like doing myself in with all my health probs angina I cannot feel I can cope anylonger with them and inga and ronan.

I am sorry to burden you with this but it is how I am feeling

Enclosed is letters I have from inga.kirkman also as I told her by email that I have got replies eventully after me continuing to email fax but I have not had a reply from the hardship letter I sent to both themselves and yourselfs on 6th dec 2007-12-28 thanking you so much for your time and effort in helping me with this case I feel I can no longer carry on .

Yours sincerly

Regards

thyyyvm for all ur help you really are my stars n gems

may i wish you both and all a very happy new year

hugs

abg

xxx

[jansus]

Hi

 

please dont let all this get to you

 

We are all trying to help it is just that we are not experts either.

 

If you can you need someone to go with you - which court is it? Maybe we can ask around the site to see if someone can be with you.

 

To be honest as I said all that you are going to achieve I think is to make the judge realise what they have put you through. I think they will get a stay on the case. Please try calling the FOS direct just say you have sent an urgent fax and really need to speak to someone. One phone call from them might sort the abbey out.

 

Lets also try and get the name of the person that Simon dealt with form Abbey from his thread and I will compose one last letter that you can email or fax direct to them.

 

Jan

[jansus]

Right I see now that Ronan ( mr /mrs? first name?) Is the contact that you and Simon have at Abbey

 

is this customer service Department?

 

 

Here is your plan of action.

 

1) first thing Wed am call FOS and in plain simple english just tell them how desperate you are. You have faxed and emailed Abbey on many occasions. You have to rely on benefits and due to your health etc the charges have worsened your financial position. You can not understand why they are dragging this to court as you understood hardship cases should be dealt with outside the court system. You are an urgent case and you need something done now. You dont feel you can cope with the hearing and you need some help.

 

2) We will ask around the site to see if the worse comes to the worse if someone can come with you to court. Maybe there is a way we can prepare a written statement to put before the judge rather than you having to speak - maybe Zootscoot can help with this.

 

 

Also we can get one last email together to send to Abbey ?

 

something like?

 

 

As a result of your last correspondence , I see that you are determined to continue to deal with my claim within the court system. Considering you are fully aware that I am a severe hardship case and have been aware of this fact for sometime, I must make you aware that your decision is putting severe stress on me and worsening my health. I feel that considering you have paid out on other cases recently I am entitiled to a full written explanation as to why you are treating me like this. You have made no attempt to ease my situation or treat me in a respectful manner and I am frankly disgusted that you are willing to deal with this in court when I have made every attempt to settle this outside the court system. This case has been the last option open to me, as since the waiver agreement I have tried on many occasions to resolve this matter and I will again be contacting the FOS for their help.

 

 

What do you think?

[jansus]

hi I am trying to send you pm- is your folder full?

 

jan

[abroadgirl]

hi jan not that i know of going to check now love sorry

abg