lANCASTERCHELSEA V. RBS/business

[hedgey06]

It is very brief! I'd be inclined to amend it - which would also give you the chance to include some stuff in your PoC about the pre-6 year charges as well. Plus, I really do think it's a good idea to only go for the 8% interest as well............... the DJ will be much more inclined to award this as opposed to the compounded rate.

[ukaviator]

Just had a quick read. You should have filled in an N1 form when filing with the court. Your POC is too short. I recommend you fill in an N244 form and hand it into the court. It will cost £35 to amend your POC. You can use the Common Law reference not UTCCR in your POC wording.

 

Use this POC here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/110283-new-poc-n1-rbs.html

 

Amend this to suit your needs. Also you should mention the Limitations Act Section 32

• (1) .... where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either-
  • (a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or
    
  • (b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant; or
    
  • © the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake;

  [*]the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. ....

  [*](2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty.

This link will get you the case law on the Limitations to put put into your POC.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-library/95399-case-law-relevant-limitations.html?highlight=LIMITATIONS+ACT

 

The amended POC will i think make them give in quite easily, but i may be wrong. It is your choice. The costs alone going over the legal arguments on their side will i think make them pay.

[lancasterchelsea]

will Cobblers attend court ?

or do they tend to settle beforehand???

 

I have a preliminary in January

[hedgey06]

It's difficult to call this one to be honest hun, particularly as it's a prelim hearing. However, as you filed your claim via MCOL and it's also a business claim, I personally feel there's a good chance that they'll turn up and pick holes in your PoC.

 

To give your claim the best possible chance, I do think you'll need to change your PoC - I posted up a link to barneybubble's thread on the first page of your thread which shows exactly what to do/how to do it. I really do think your best course of action right now is to bite the bullet and re-do the PoC. x

 

EDIT: Sorry, meant to add this link earlier! This gives a really good guide to what to expect at the prelim hearing http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

[lancasterchelsea]

thanks very much for your advice

I will redo my POC tomorrow

I am reluctant to water down my interest rate though. It is exactly what they have charged me. I have had an overdraft permanently and get charged interest every month on the old charges

obrigado

[hedgey06]

I am reluctant to water down my interest rate though. It is exactly what they have charged me. I have had an overdraft permanently and get charged interest every month on the old charges obrigado

 

You could always leave the interest as it is and give 8% as an alternative. That way, the DJ can award what he/she see's fit to award.

 

Best of luck re-doing the Poc, give us a 'shout' if you need any help with it. x

[lancasterchelsea]

Hedgey.......... I have filled in N244 partially..... not sure about Part C

 

will handwritten do ? or is it best typed

 

Do I attach a new POC as if I was starting again with an N1 is it the

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/110283-new-poc-n1-rbs.html one ????

 

I send (or take) 3 copies (of N244 plus new POC) to court with cheque for £35 made out to "the County Court" ????

 

I can write complex linear programming optimisation systems but this stuff does my head in

 

thanks

[lancasterchelsea]

the POC http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/110283-new-poc-n1-rbs.html contains a reference to free banking. As a business customer, I pay fees for each cheque etc

 

Is this still the right POC for business claims

[hedgey06]

N244 ..... not sure about Part C

 

For Part C, put something along the lines of:

 

"I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my Particulars of Claim. (give a brief explaination of why the amendment is needed, ...............e.g., the original Particulars of Claim do not, upon reflection, give sufficient information in support of the claim.)

 

Please find attached to this application my proposed new Particulars of Claim, as well as a schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant"

 

will handwritten do ? or is it best typed

 

It doesn't matter whether you type or handwrite the form to be honest, as long as all the relevant info is included typed or handwritten is fine. But if you download the N244, you can type the info into it and then print 3 copies off. It won't let you save the changes though.

 

Do I attach a new POC as if I was starting again with an N1 is it the http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/110283-new-poc-n1-rbs.html one ????

 

You could use this one, but you'd need to remove all references to free banking, UTTCCR, etc. Or, you could use this which is the standard business claim PoC. Either way, don't forget that you'll need to put it onto the N1 form (3 copies of this are also required, plus 3 copies of your schedule of charges).

 

I send (or take) 3 copies (of N244 plus new POC) to court with cheque for £35 made out to "the County Court" ????

 

I'd be inclined to take it into the Court offices if you possibly can - they'll deal with the paperwork immediately for you. I'm not sure who you make it out to - possibly HMCS? Probably best to give the court a quick ring in the morning to be on the safe side (shows you how long ago I wrote a cheque out!!) Once the Court has your N244 and amended PoC, they'll amend the details, re-seal the claim, return it to you and it is then your responsibility to re-serve it on RBoS. Ensure that you keep a copy of the sealed N1 for yourself too. Once you have served the claim you should send the Court a completed certificate of service which is here along with a copy of the N1 so that the court knows when the bank need to respond.

 

I can write complex linear programming optimisation systems but this stuff does my head in

 

Tell me about it!!! Although I can't write complex linear programming optimisation systems either! Takes a while to get your head round this at first because, let's face it, we're not solicitors, barristers or judges........... although by the time you get to the end of your claim, you'll feel qualified to be one!!!

 

Keep up the good work hun, you're nearly there now. x

[lancasterchelsea]

Excellent help Hedgey...... thanks very much

I cannot get to the court tomorrow...... I am away all day

hopefully I will take it in on thurs am

[hedgey06]

My pleasure. x

[lancasterchelsea]

got all the amended poc/N1/N244/3 copies/£40(gone up from £35) into court last friday.... I had to mark/underline it all in red because it was an amendment.... The staff were very helpful and friendly... They are watching out for any credit card claims that have been stayed

They will now send it all back to me when they have done what they have to do with it.

[hedgey06]

Well done hun, I know it's a bit of a pain to amend the claim at this stage, but it's well worth having your PoC all present and correct when you get to the hearing. x

[hedgey06]

Just a thought hun, but given how close you are to barneybubble in the claim stakes with dates, etc., and along with the fact that you've revised your PoC, strikes me that your own offer may not be too far away! x

[lancasterchelsea]

Let's hope so, but it certain to be at the statutory interest rate

thanks

[lancasterchelsea]

Got reply from court today......

it is ordered that.....

"There be to the claimant to amend the claim in the form filed at court"

what the hell does that mean?????

"The defendant shall file and serve an amended defence by 4:00pm on 31st December 2007"

[hedgey06]

Sounds as though the DJ had approved your application to amend your PoC! Phone the court office and check - but I think this is what it means. What you'll have to do now is re-serve the amended PoC on RBS (head office as before) if the DJ has actually approved the amendment.

[lancasterchelsea]

Got phone call from Cobblers...........

they have offered 40% as a full and final etc....... which I gracefully declined

also the very pleasant lady said..... you are claiming contractual not the court's s69 8%......... i replied that I have simulated the exact charging regime that the bank has imposed on me.... the interest charged is the exact sum of interest that the bank has charged me resulting from the penalty charges. The account is still current and I have an overdraft made up partly of old penalty charges and the total of consequential interest on penalties.

 

Contractual only adds about £400 above "normal" 8%

[hedgey06]

I don't think you're too far away from a full and final settlement now If they offer to refund all penalty charges plus court fees plus 8%, you'll have cracked it without having to attend the hearing!

 

Fingers crossed that their next offer is for the full amount. x