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    • Here is an updated draft of the proposed particulars of claim. Please can you start dealing with this. Fill in the figures and also let me have some comments.    
    • They may try to say that you haven't given them an opportunity to remedy the situation. You are now in a position to say that that is untrue and that you have invited them to address all the defects but subject to a written schedule and subject to supervision. Assuming that you will have actually issued the proceedings, you will then be able to say to the court that despite this approach, the defendants have declined and it is for this reason that you have been obliged to issue proceedings. You should emphasise that you have only brought the matter into the court process as a last resort – whereas by contrast, the building company have attempted to use a bankruptcy procedure as a first resort.
    • Points to emphasise with the court: There is no problem about money. The entire issue is about the quality of the work which has been carried out. The shabby workmanship has been confirmed by an independent survey for which you have paid £355. The survey report has been provided to the builders and yet they have so far ignored it and declined to comment. There were four contracts in all. Two of them were completed to a satisfactory standard and the price of those contracts was paid without any difficulty. The dispute relates simply to two remaining contracts which are the subject of the independent report. From the outset of this dispute instead of trying to hold a dialogue her adopted a barracking and bullying approach – the same approach which is being used by their debt collection agency. You have received threats that they will trespass onto your property and remove your driveway. They are completely aware that there is a legitimate dispute and in fact one of the directors admitted that the work was not up to standard. You have embarked on the pre-action protocol as a prelude to legal action. Legal action in respect of one of the contract has now been issued. You are still hoping that the builders will deal with the matter without the need to take the litigation into the court room. The building company have attempted to avoid the independent scrutiny and transparency of the court process. The proper procedure for addressing this dispute would have been to start a legal action against you. The building company have decided not to use a transparent process and have the evidence weighed by a judge. The building company has preferred to shortcut the process and to use the strong-arm tactic of trying to have you declared bankrupt. This is clearly an abuse of the process. If there were serious questions about your intention to avoid payment, it would have been open for the building company to issue proceedings and eventually to have required that you would pay the disputed some into court. You would have complied with such an order without any difficulty – but they have chosen not to litigate. Now that litigation is underway, you believe that the best course of action is to allow the litigation to take its course and for the building company either to come to the table or else for the matter to be decided by a court after having weighed all the evidence. I'm going to say that if you had been more responsive in the way that you had been dealing with this so far – and as we have been encouraging you to do throughout this process, we would be well advanced by now and there wouldn't be this furious last moment dash to prevent a bankruptcy procedure. I hope that in view of what is happening you will now re-prioritise this matter.   I don't know what your temperament is like but when the hearing starts, you must remain very level and gentle in your approach and your tone of voice. Simply make your points. Listen very carefully to what is being said to you. While the judge is speaking, you should make notes so that you don't forget to refer to a particular point if something important is said. In the heat of the moment and in the stress, it is very easy to hear the judge say something to which you want to respond and then as the judge continues, you forget to say it. Once again, I expect that @Andyorch will be along at some point although he may be away for the weekend.  
    • How the European papers see Britain's problems, from the Independent.   European newspapers blame Brexit for UK supply chain crisis WWW.INDEPENDENT.CO.UK Continent’s press liken situation to 1970s Winter of Discontent and ‘boycotted Cuba’  
  • Our picks

skintboy69 v. Citi Sharks


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Greetings to you all and may the Force be with you. (particularly where these guys are concerned).

 

Let me give you a bit of background 'cos I'm going to need advise.

 

They have managed to turn an unsecured £750 card debt into about £2500 and with a charge on my house which they took despite my offering to pay a set amount each month.

I know it's mostly my own fault because I didn't defend the action, but until a month or two back - when I found this site - I thought that there was nothing I could do anyway.

 

I sent my subject access request earlier this month. They received it 11/5/07. Today I received from them what I assume is ther standard form asking for 2 proofs of identity etc.

 

Having read it carefully several times there are a couple of things I'm not happy with:

 

1) They say they will supply the required information within 40 days of satisfying themselves that I am who I say I am. I think the 40 days begins when they receive MY request. Can anyone confirm that?

 

2) They ask you to sign a declaration that I understand the nessessity for them to satisfy themselves of my identity and that they may require more proof in the future (delaying the start of their 40 days even more).

 

I believe that my cheque, from the bank I have always used, 2 signatures and two other forms of identification should be more than enough.

 

I intend completing their form, deleting those items I think inappropriate and sending a covering letter explaining why.

 

What do you think??

 

Cheers T.

 

ps Sorry it's sooo long. :oops: :oops:

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Sorry again I've just re-read my previous!!! The grammar sucks.:oops:

 

One last thing: they say they can refuse to provide the data if it requires 'disproportionte effort' to locate it. They quote Data Protection Act 1998 Section 8(2).

Is this correct or just another tactic??

 

Cheers T.

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Don't complete what I assume you mean is their i.d. form to get the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), after all they have managed to find you up til now with no difficulty, if you must, enclose photocopy of utility bill, not sure about reclaiming charges when you have a charging order but no doubt someone more knowledgeable will happen along.

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Thanks for this reply (and the other) :) miss muppet.

I think their penalties and the charge on property are two separate issues. They didn't have to establish the 'legality' of their penalties to get a charge on the house and anyway, that was done by their tame debt collectors, not citi bank themselves.

 

I would really appreciate ANY opinions from the great and the good out there, both on the points I have raised and the wisdom (or otherwise) of posting on this sub-forum bearing in mind our 'friend's' monitoring activities.

 

Cheers

T.

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  • 2 years later...

I can't believe it's 2 years since I first started this. :eek:.

 

I took my eye off the ball for a while, but now after a fair bit of success elsewhere I'm back on the case.

 

Citi sent all the statements and things in 2007. I have now (finally) got round to producing a schedule of charges and that, together with the initial request letter will be in the post tomorrrow.

 

I can't wait to see how they respond.

 

Keep the faith, T. :cool:

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They'll follow standard procedure, and defend against your claim unless its a relatively small amount.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hi Enron. Thanks for calling in.

 

I've read through a lot of threads and it's clear that these guys play hardball.

 

Someone's got to have a go though otherwise the bar stewards will continue to get away with it. I don't mind donning the wig and getting up on my hind legs.

 

Whatever happens is whatever happens.

 

Cheers, T. :cool:

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Hi Skintboy,

Just subbing to your thread as I'm in a similar position to you only my claim is much younger than yours.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/citicards/202950-fox-citi-sar.html#post2209520

 

I'm doing a non compliance letter over the weekend

 

fox

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Hi Fox.

 

I've just read through your thread. They took much longer than 40 days to send my stuff through, but they did send a couple of letters in between to apologise and to say they were still on the case. (it will be a case in a couple of weeks if they don't play ball).

 

When they finally pay up (I have faith :rolleyes:) it will pretty well clear what I owe them and while they don't bother me, we have an arrangement, I will be glad to clear yet another debt.

 

I'll wach your adventures with interest.

 

Keep the faith.

 

T. :cool:

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Did you send recorded?

 

Normally you'd send to their customer services where correspondence is dealt with - then later file any claim at their head office address.

 

Nothing surprises me about Citi anylonger, after all look at their invovlement in the downfall of Enron...

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hi Enron.

 

Yes, the letter went recorded delivery. I checked with Royal Mail today and it hsn't been delivered yet. Nor has another to HFC. So much for their claim that 90 odd % of first class mail is delivered the next day. That certainly isn't my experience.

 

Anyway, they have 14 days (+1 I surpose). If they don't respond the LBA will be sent.

 

I don't intend to cut these guys any slack timewise. If I stick to my timetable i might have resolution by christmas (2012).

 

Cheers, T. :cool:

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If you need a hand with anything let me know.

 

Certainly we know alot of their weak points when it comes to defending charge claims, and are more than aware of their delaying tactics, dodgey cost pre-estimates etc.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Thanks Enron. I'm sure I will as the claim progresses.

 

I've got a fair bit of experience under my belt now but every claim and every defendant is different. I'm not expecting an easy ride with this lot but, like the man said, a penny recovered is a penny earned. ;)

 

Keep the faith.

 

T. :cool:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I received an acknowledgement of my complaint today, about 9 days into their 14, if you follow me.

 

It tells me that they are investigating my 'complaint' and will endevour to to resolve it within 8 weeks. This timescale, they say, is in accordance with regulations set out by FSA :eek:.

 

Happily for me, but unhappily for them, the timescale I am adhering to is in accordance with the regulations set out by Skintboy - the FSA are far too busy sorting themselves out for the House of Lords to bother with my little issue. :lol:

 

My LBA will be in the post on 23rd of this month and, if they don't play, I will issue my claim at the County Court 15 days later.

 

Keep the faith.

 

T. :cool:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Today I received a letter from Citi offering to refund the difference between the £25 they charged me and the £12 they have been forced into by the FSA. It's not a bad letter (from their point of view) and it says that the £25 was a 'genuine pre-estimate' of their losses in the event of a late payment etc. They must be veeeeery inefficient if their costs are that high, especially as the cost to all the other banks etc is only a couple of shillings. :lol:

 

Their offer is only open for 14 days from date of letter.

 

I shall send them the standard 'part payment' letter, maybe with a more realistic counter-offer. Do these 'people' negotiate??

 

If not the N1 will be in the post in about 10 days.

 

 

Cheers,

 

T. :cool:

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No they don't normally negotiate.

 

Keep pushing for a full refund, if its under £500 they'll settle, if not they'll likely defend in court - that said if you can get the draft order adopted which will avoid the waste of valuable court time they will not comply with a court order for a breakdown of their costs.

 

Citis pre-estimates of their costs are very shakey, in that they dont seem to modify them year on year.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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Hi Enron. Thanks for the info.

 

My claim is for more than £500: it's actually over £1500 before interest under sec. 69. That said, I am claiming charges + CCI.

 

I will stick to my original strategy. If they choose to reject my offer I will see them in court. It won't be the first time :cool:.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

 

Cheers,

 

T. :cool:

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Citi are likely to request a stay, but there are ways to try and get around this if you proceed to court.

 

We know alot of their tactics etc, so get in touch after filing your N1.

Advice offered by ENRON is without prejudice and is for your judgement as to whether to take it. You should seek the assistance or hire of a solicitor or other paid professional if in doubt.

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They can stay it for 5 or even 10 minutes if they want, but anything longer is a definite no no.

 

Thanks for your support Enron. I'll be in touch.

 

Keep the faith.

 

T. :cool:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Received their 'Final Response' letter today: it's pretty much a carbon copy of their first offer, slightly different words, identical amount.

 

I'll complete the N1 at the weekend (as if I haven't enough to do :rolleyes:) and deliver it, by hand, to the court on Monday.

 

Let battle comence :cool:.

 

Cheers, T.

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