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    • Court hearing today. WON on all counts of claim. The win though is not the interesting bit, but the ‘why’ is really useful. We were allocated 90 minutes but it took two hours by telephone . The defense were represented but I failed to note whether by a solicitor, barrister or other advocate.   As soon as the judge finished the introductions and before he had time to pass the time over to me to explain my case, the defense interrupted and asked the claim be struck out. He then spent the next 40 minutes discussing with the judge that I had failed to properly serve my bundle upon which I intended to rely. The judge asked me to explain and I said I had served the bundle to them and the court 3 days before the deadline, by signed for post with a tracking number to the address named in the summons being the Royal Mail Head Office in London. I said it was a bit rich that they were making this request when they had failed to serve me and the court with their bundle within the deadline and that I had only just received it. They quoted a certain principle of law (which I failed to write down) which explained that service of documents must be made to the address which either party may request service to be made. They claimed that six months earlier when they lodged their defense to my summons, the covering letter had been sent from their Sheffield office and it constituted the address for future service of documents. I of course had no idea of such a requirement and said that a simple letter heading on a piece of correspondence was not the same as a formal sentence in a letter requesting such future service. It gave the judge some concern but he decided to park the issue and allow the hearing to continue.   I was able to explain my case for the £50 compensation for the lost parcel using the evidence from the defense bundle referencing the Overseas Post Scheme. It was all straight forward. I explained the facts and let them speak for themselves. I then moved on to the delayed Special Delivery items. This is where the fun began because I had to argue against their terms and conditions. I used the defense bundle referencing the UK Post Scheme. I quoted from various clauses which explained the rules relating to claims. That ALL delay claims must be made within 3 months, then that Special Delivery was actually 14 days so not 3 months after all, then another clause which confirmed the deadline was 3 months for all delay claims. I quoted further that these were “common terms” and that some services (Special Delivery was one) had additional terms which were called “specific terms”. Another clause stated that where a conflict arises between common and specific terms, then specific terms took priority. So I turned to the Special Delivery section to quote the specific terms as these would have priority. There was only one term that referenced claims. It simply said If we do not succeed in attempting to deliver by this time (being the next day) we will refund your postage. I used this single phrase to take priority over the 3 months  or 14 day deadline mentioned in the common terms. I discussed how the various clauses conflicted with themselves as if the clauses themselves did not know what the deadlines were and how ambiguous and confusing it was.   The time was then past to the defense and he started to argue there was no contract nor liability in tort (a substantial portion of their written defense document and bundle discussed this argument). It made me smile because I was ready for that. The judge though was ahead of the game and (especially because 40 minutes had been wasted at the beginning) he did not want to hear of it. After about one minute, he stopped the defense by saying exactly what I was preparing to say. Simply that I was not suing under contract or tort but under the conditions of the various postal schemes for which they were liable. He asked the defense to answer my claims. The defense then prevaricated trying to argue the clause that distinctly mentioned the 14 day time limit within which to make a claim for delay (which of course it did) ( as an aside, most people might accept that deadline and not bother to pursue a claim). He had nothing to add about the lost parcel.   Time had run out, we had no questioning and the judge said he was summing up. He was quite happy I had served my documents sufficiently well and took the view that the defense had fallen foul of the court order so he was cancelling out the question about valid service. He had no difficulty in accepting the claim that the lost parcel was valid and awarded me the £50 compensation. He then spoke at longer length about the delay claims and the conflict in the clauses. (at this point I had no idea which way this bit would go). Then, he spoke of how a business such as Royal Mail should not be accepting clauses in their contracts which were clearly inconsistant. (that’s when I started to relax), (and then the best takeaway of the hearing), He said that common law provides in the event of a standard contract if there is any ambiguity, the interpretation should be judged against the person drafting the contract. He called it Contra Proferendem. (I had no idea of that concept but had effectively explained it anyway). I was awarded the whole claim plus costs. The defense asked for permission to appeal which was refused.    Remember the phrase “Contra Proferendem” . I shall be looking more into it. I am sure it will come in handy against any institution that have drafted contracts that cannot be individually negotiated. And will certainly be useful for a long while yet against Royal Mail et al.
    • Original loan was £5000 unsecured over 5 years, 28 payments remaining, he wanted to extend it back up to 5 year.........the bank offered him £6700 to clear his credit card and the bank loan, £135 per month from the original figure of £121    One debt of two years old and one debt of 15 months        
    • Probably a good thing in disguise. Its never a good idea to bundle up everything to one creditor.   How big was the loan to be and would it have been secured? And how old are all his other debts? Who says they even enforceable?   Dx
    • My son was offered an extension to his current loan, with Barclays, they saw him as a good risk due to surplus money still in his account each month, the extension was to include his Barclay Card, all finances including external credit loans and personal circumstances were taken into consideration, and they still saw him as a good risk.......   he was declined today....He didn't ask to have his loan extended but they said he was pre approved and they could help him and he would be financially better off, which is true he would be.......apparently his outgoings were to much in relation to his income which is totally rubbish..its only 47% out goings    So we would like to make an official hard hitting complaint   Thanks to all who read my jottings  
    • Can you make them road legal by placing a sticker on them with the relevant info?  Just a thought...
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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Thought i would let you all know i have just done my DPA letter, and will be sending this off tomorrow.

 

Fingers crossed because i have been with halifax for about 18 1/2 yrs and have had shed loads of bank charges.

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Welcome. Keep in touch.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

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I've made an appt to see my bank mangeress on friday, to try and get my bank charges back if i dont get them, then im going to present her with DPA latter and £10 for 6 yrs statements.

 

I have this persons name now and i'm going to deal direct with her even if it comes down to me serving her in the bank with my request to take halfax to court.

 

 

Will keep you updated

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sidog70,

you mention £10 to get 6 years statements. i just called halifax bank accounts (08457 203040) and they raised a case for a letter to be sent to me with all charge details for last 6 years. No fee for this service mentioned. If at all poss i wouldn't give halifax more money ( for info about money they've taken )which you are legally entitled to under DPA regulations.

 

will add to this if i get an invoice on the post next week....

"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett

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My bank manager informed me that the charges were £5 per statement, but if a larger number were requested, this was "open to negotiation", whatever he meant. I informed him that to date the bank have no real formal charge, as i've seen a nil charge right up to £10 on this site. he didn't respond!

 

Needless to say, he has passed on my DPA request to head office, but despite 30 years loyalty, they still haven't seen fit to respond to my complaint, ( The bank manager has responded, but know one has made contact with me at HO yet) and this is now 8 days after we last spoke on the telephone. Disgraceful service!!

 

My original DPA request was delivered almost 20 days ago, so i'm starting to think about my letter of complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

I'm going to deliver one last letter of reminder on Saturday, and the request for a free service on the DPA info, and a note on the number of days they have left to provide me with the information.

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They have 40 days in which to produce the data requested. You will have to be patient

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

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Had my meeting with the bank manageress today, i asked her if she thought the charge of £39 for unpaid dd was fair which she relpied 'no but this is our legislation' upon this is advised her that the law states they are only allowed to reclaim a charge that covers there costs and £39 is extortionate. She was not prepared to discuss my charges and i give her my DPA letter, which to be honest she was bemused reading it and made an excuse she must go and see the actual bank manager to see were to send this form, i was sat there a good 10 mins before she returned to say it goes to newcastle and they will send it and there will be no cost..

 

Now waiting for the statements to arrive which she advised would be within 14 days.

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Confirm it all to her in writing.

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Well she made various commitments to you verbally. However, supposing that it doesn't happen and they say to you, this is not what was agreed, yo muis understood, our staff would bever say that etc...

 

Write a letter recording exactly what she said and what she promised and send them the letter recorded ASAP. Say that you are now looking forward to it all happening.

Always do this after any conversation with the banks.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE ***********

 

Have now received a letter this morning from halifax, they are offering me £260 (my claim is for £2,116.24). I can assure halifax i will not be accepting this punitive amount. My question is do i now go and file the moneyclaim or send another letter to them asking for all the money back.

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LOL it has blindman

 

 

Just give halifax customer relations call to give them one last chance to pay up in full before sending the LBA, they now have gone from offering me £260 to £512 which i advised is still far short of the £2116 im claiming, she advised that would send me a letter to advise that £512 would be there last offer and have exhausted there complaints procedure and now i would need to take this up with the ombudsman, i advised that i would not be doing this but sending a letter giving halifax to pay the full amount in 14 days or i will be suing them for the full amount. The lady advised that my complaint would now need to be noted to say that im going to sue halifax.

 

Have i spoilt my claim in anyway by phoning them today ????

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I don't think so at all. You have given them time and deadlines, they have treated the final offer as their last, you have told them what you are going to do to recover your money.

 

Would suggest waiting until the deadline you set has expired before issuing your claim - they may get their lines crossed and someone else may offer you a fuller refund. Would also suggest writing another DPA request asking for copies or transcripts of ALL telephone conversations between you and the bank.

 

Good luck.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Guest blindman

IMHO

I wouldn't say so, you have in fact speeded things up because instead of waiting for their reply to your LBA, you've already had it.

 

I would send an LBA but worded "After the 'phone call (date) with (whoever) In which my claim for full payment of charges was verbally denied I intend to start small claims proceedings immediately.

 

Or words to that effect.

 

(That's my opinion...)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

an interesting and unique turn of event today, logged on to moneyclaim to check how the claim was progressing along, my judgement has now progressed and from what i can see has a message there saying that the defendant(Halifax) have admitted to owing me the money.

 

Has anyone else come across this before with Halifax, i always thought Halifax made us sweat til the last minute.

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Not heard of this one - will watch closely.!

Egg Data Protection Act Statements arrived. On hold.

 

Halifax - Moneyclaim £3100

 

Amex to Remove Default - acknowledged didn't issue correct documents - default removed :) . £135 paid in full without Court

 

I'm on a roll now :rolleyes:

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