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Mrs JGG v Monument


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Hi guys n gals, im wondering if you could please assist me with this one..

 

Story is this.. some 4 years back, my wife opened up this credit card, with a limit of £500. All was fine, then she had to have a operation, and was off sick for 3 months. 4th May 2004, monument in their wisdom, charged her £8.89 interest. Thus putting her over the £500 limit. Then there was the £20 over limit fee, and the £20 late fee (because of their 5 working day rule).

 

Months go by, and each month there is the £20, over limit, £20 late, and interest charges. The mrs contacts the cc people, and they put her on a payment plan, to reduce the debt to them. Should be fair enough....

 

Problem is, they didnt put her on the right plan, ie they said, right pay us £21 a month by dd, and that will reduce things.. so she did this. (This is all unbenownst to me, as we werent married at the time, and i knew nothing of her finances.. This has only come to light since we wed last year.)

 

But the thing is, their £21 a month, didnt cover what was due according to their records, they still charged her £20 over limit fees, and interest anything from £10-20 a month. There isn't a cat in hells chance that she would of reduced the debt, as it was and had snowballed.

 

Aug 06, when i first came across this, her balance stood at over £1000!!!. Most of which are their charges and interst.

 

I got in contact with Monument on the wifes behalf.. getting past the i need to speak to the card holder part was awful.

 

After writing letter after letter, requesting for me to speak on her behalf, contacting them by phone, eventually after 3 months i'm able to now.

 

Aug 06, wrote asking for a complete breakdown of all transactions, from account creation to date, to see what had happened.

 

Heard nothing from them for literally months.

 

Cutting a long story short, 1/5/7, we finally received the list of transactions, and it is outstanding reading! Together with their 'under the terms and conditions of the account for which you agreed to bound, when applying for a monument visa card, a late payment fee is applicable if you do not make at least your min payment by the due date. In addition an over limit fee is applicable if you exceed your agreed credit limit at any time. Further to this interest is applied to any outstanding balance on your account at the contractual rate each month.

 

We beleive that it is fari when a customer pays us late or the balance on the account exceeds the agreed credit limit, the costs we incure are bourne by the customer.

 

blah blah..

 

furthermore, fees and charges are made clear to customers in the terms and conditions when they apply for a card. Information is also included every month on our statements.

 

I therefore conclude that Monument has acted appropriately in the management of your account'

 

Now after doing the spread sheet yesterday the figures i find are out of this world...

 

Total spend on the card is £587.67

Total payments made £1326.11

Total late fees £140

Total over limit fees £540.00

Total interest paid £701.38

Payment break charges £161.54 (what ever the hell these are)

The total balance as at the last statement is £850.16.

 

Since i started being in contact with monument, i changed the payment plan from £20 to £40 a month. They are still charging interest so the debt literally decreases by £20ish a month.

 

Now my question is, firstly, how much should we claim against them for. Are their interest charges fair, ie the total spend has well and truly been paid for nearly 3 times over!, why should we still be paying interest on the account, when it was clearly (in my eyes) their fault for not putting her on the correct payment plan to start off with.

 

Many thanks to anyone who could please help point me in the right direction on this one..

__________________

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Update on above, Sent off the lba for £2395.68 being the total balance currently o/s, interest on their charges), o/b fees, l/p fees, and ppi fees (as im of the opinion that this was mis-sold).

 

Receive a letter off monument saturday 19/5 saying their fees are justified, we should of kept within the agreed credit limit blah blah, as a gogw gesture they are willing to refund the grand sum of £340 which represents half of their charges. They also stated that they have now lowered their charges in line with the oft report to £12. usual blah blah about contacting the fso, and they will help with the letter if so required.. (nice of them i thought) :rolleyes:

 

So ive replied with the standard refusal letter saying thanks but no thanks, 'Furthermore I have also requested that you supply me with a copy of my original contract and a copy of your terms and conditions. To date I have not received either.'

 

After talking to mrs jgg last night, im also thinking that we should go down the CCA route.. does anyone have any thoughts on this also too please??

 

many thanks

nige :)

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Monumnet are "lovely people".

Right for your claim to need to go for ALL Late fees, overlimit and add their interest rate to it, known as CCI.

There's a number of spreadsheets available that will help with this.

 

Now the payment break is a form of PPI, even tho' monument claim that it isn't.

You need to check to see if this was requested when the card was opened.

The best way to do this is send them a CCA.

This requires them to send you a copy of the signed, excuted agreement, but in this case they'll more than likely send you the original application form.

Once this arrives then you can check to see if this PPI was indeed requested.

If it wasn't then you can claim this back as well, as it has been miss-sold/not authorised.

If it WAS requested then cancel it in writting, sent recorded delivery, of course.

 

Have a look at the fun and games I'm having with these "people".

  • Haha 1

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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As Curleyben says, you shoud go for the lot, as all the interest (from what you told us) is due to charges.

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

  • Haha 1

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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thanks for the sound advice guys. I've had a look for the cca template letter, could you please point me in the direction for it??

 

I've a feeling this is going to get a bit heated in this battle, but I for one, will not go down without a fight :D. Mrs jgg, just wants to forget it, and carry on paying.. even though it will take at least 4 years plus to pay it off.. She is now saying, 'im leaving it all up to you..'

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Nige

 

THere doesn't seem to be a template. You could write something like

 

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974, section 78(1)

 

Please supply me with a copy of the executed agreement and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of Monument showing:-

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by myself (or Mrs JGG) to Monument, and

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if I/MRS JGG does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by myself/MRSJGG to Monument

 

I enclose the statutory fee of £1.

 

Where it says 'Monument' put in the full company name. Delete any of the above that does not apply

 

Steven

 

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Thanks once again guys, i iwll get that letter off, today all being well, depending on how this pc job ive got in goes.. failing that it will definately be tomorrow.

 

i will naturally keep you updated on any further developments.. Monument have until next tuesday to reply to the thanks but no thanks letter, so see what that brings up.

 

One question springs to mind.. should we carry on with the lba first and let that draw to a conclusion, or do the cca at the same time??

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone.

 

Latest update. Just received the CCA back off monument. I have no scanner, but the gist of it is as follows.

 

Its what looks like a application form. Its a home completion form, if that makes any sense.

 

The wifes name and address, is she employed etc, what the annual salary is. signed and dated by the wife.

 

There is no signature from monument anywhere on this form.

 

Attached, is another letter off them stating.

 

Thank you for your recent enquiry concerning your account and as a result we have enclosed a copy of your terms and conditions.

 

If you have any further questions regarding your acctoung, please don't hesitate to call us on **** to speak to one of our customer service representatives who'll do their utmost to help you.

 

Attatched to this is a copy of monuments conditions, top left hand corner of the page is says continued from previous page.

 

Then lists all the conditions.

 

Bottom right of the 2nd page it is printed/dated 09/06.

 

Again no signature anywhere from monument what so ever.

 

It looks to me, like just a bog standard terms and conditions print out, which was 'made' in sept 06. The wife signed for her card in Feb 03.

 

A few questions / queries spring to mind..

1 Could they have changed their terms and conditions during this time?

 

2 With is not being signed anywhere by monument is it a true CCA??

 

3 What should we do about this now?

 

Thanks once again for any info or suggestions.

 

Have a great day

be safe

nige

aka jgg

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OOps in the haste to post, forgot to mention in this 'application' there is no APR what so ever mentioned.

 

Also the wife has ticked the please tick this box if you would like our express service. the cost of which is £3.50 (see table overleaf for effect on APR), which will appear on your first statement. This service will give you a decision within 7 days of receipt of your application.

 

There is no overleaf shown. Only this page.

 

Thanks again

Nige

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Nige

 

Does it have your wife's signature on it?

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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If it's just an application form, I don't think that qualifies as a properly executed agreement

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi Steve, thats my thoughts on the matter too. But my original queries / questions still stand.

 

Namely, what can we do about this now? Should we write to them saying seeing as the debt in unenforceable, please stop harassing us, (which is what they are starting to do now).

 

Write the debt off, pay back all the monies we have paid out over the years.

 

And carry on with the original court action.

 

As a ps, on the statement that came through this morning, they are starting to add financial adjustment fees again.. only 9p this time, but what the h$ll are they playing at??

 

thanks again nige :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just another quick update on this saga. After receiving umpteen calls off our friends at Monument. I politely told them to stop harassing us by phone, quoting word for word, the text in the usual letters to them about harassment.

 

Two days later, receive a letter off them, stating that 'your land line telephone number has now been removed from our records, and all future correspondance will be in writing only'

 

Since followed this up with the letter to a 'named person' who when i kicked up a stink about the phone calls, told me she is dealing with the 'refund'. She also mentioned that they havent received the refusal letter, and would be sending off a cheque for the gogw, which we have taken as full settlement. And we would of received this last week. Like i think so?? not a chance.

 

Anyhow, they then mentioned, that monument were taken over by A N OTHER Company. Like that should matter re this, and would like a copy of the refusal letter, and to address the harassment letter direct to her.

 

I mentioned that monument have already received the refusal letter, in which we gave them 7 days to respond. The reply was, 'how do you know it has been received by us?' Easy answer, sent registered post, signed for by X on XX .XX.XX. Oh well, I can only presume that our post people, have kept it somewhere, I will chase it up with them.

 

With not having the funds to issue proceedings against them at this time, We have given them another 7 days to reply / refund. This runs out tomorrow, so later in the week its off to court.

 

Court bundle is already prepared, and printed out, in binders, with nice colour dividers. Mrs JGG, decided that it needed 'tarting up'.. ahh well she who will be obeyed..

 

Will keep you all updated as and when..

 

have a great week

 

be safe

nige :)

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I'm having a major go at monument as well ! they are a right bunch. They put £455 into my account even after I had said NO! the claim was for £1212

 

just got a default judgement for the charges and they have put a defence in for the PPI claim

 

My battle against monument is detailed here........about page 3 and towards the end

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/84285-ccas-dave-against-world-post757767.html#post757767

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Just received a ‘final response’ from our friends at monument.

 

It reads as this.

 

Dear Mrs. JGG

 

I write further to xxx’s letter of 18th may 2007.

 

The investigation of your complaint has now been completed. I am very sorry that we have been unable to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, Only satisfactory to them as we always strive to provide excellent service at all times. In the circumstances for the purposes of the Financial Ombudsman Service, you may regard this letter as Monument’s “Final Response”.

 

In summary the results of our investigation are as follows:

 

We understand that you are requesting a refund of £2395.68 which you state is the total amount of late payment and over limit fees that have been applied to your account, which you state are unlawful.

 

We have advised that our records show that the sum of £700.00 has been applied to your account in relation to late payment and overlimit fees.

 

We have confirmed that further to the Office of Fair Trading investigation into default charges, we have decreased our default charges to £12.00 each. We are therefore not prepared to review any of the default charges that have applied to your account at this rate. There are no charges at this rate. Only the £20 ones.

 

We have explained to you that under the Terms and Conditions of the account, which you agreed to be bound when applying for the Monument visa card; a late payment fee is applicable if you do not at least make your minimum payment by the payment due date and an overlimit fee is applicable if you exceed your agreed credit limit at any time. Further to this we have confirmed that interest is applied to any outstanding balance on your account at the contractual rate each month.

 

We have informed you that Monument we believe it is fair that when a customer pays us late or the balance on the account exceeds the agreed credit limit, the costs we incur are borne by the customer.

 

We have advised you that we would remind customer that fees are easily avoided by making payments on time and keeping within the agreed credit limit. Setting up a direct debit payment and by using our telephone balance service can also help. IF they had set it up at the correct rate, instead of £21, which didn’t even cover the interest rates some month’s we wouldn’t be in this position.

 

Furthermore, we advised you that fees and charges are made clear to the customers in the Terms and Conditions when they apply for a card. Information is also included every month on our statements.

We have concluded that monument has acted responsibly in the management of your account.

 

However, putting this issue to one side, as a gesture of goodwill on this occasion only we have previously advised you that we are prepared to refund £340.00 which represents half of the charges in question, which we hoped you would agree was a fair and reasonable offer. We have advised you that a credit of £20.00 was applied to your Feb. 2004 statement. They have actually credited £40 in two separate payments. If you wanted to accept this offer, we requested confirmation in writing and upon receipt we advised that we would arrange for the appropriate credit to be applied to your account. It is with regret however, that I note you have declined our offer. Would anyone in their right mind accept a offer of £340, when there is over £2300 outstanding.. Is this planet Monument??

 

To prevent further late payment or overlimit fees from being applied to your account, we have advised you to ensure that all payments are received on time and the balance of your account does not exceed the agreed credit limit.

 

If the balance of your account exceeds the agreed credit limit we have advised that you must pay the difference between the balance and your limit along with your minimum monthly payment.

 

We have advised that should you no longer be prepared to accept and wish to be subject to the account Terms and Conditions and close your account, please advise me. Please note you would be liable for the outstanding balance on your account.

 

In addition, we have confirmed that Monument will not be accommodating your request for a refund of the respective interest charges that have accrued on the fees in question as outlined above. This is the first time they have mentioned the refund of interest. ** Note, no mention of the mis sold PPI though **

 

It is with regret that will be unable to accommodate your request for a refund should you intend to pursue recovery of the full amount through the small claims court as suggested in your letter. We will therefore require written confirmation that you uncondionally accept our offer of £340.00 and that you subsequently will be taking no further action with regards to this matter. On receipt of your letter the appropriate credit will be applied to your account.

 

As previously advised, you may be able to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service for investigation. The Bank’s previous offers will lapse and the Financial Ombudsman Service may make an alternative award, not necessarily similar or larger than our offer.

Should you wish to reconsider our offer, then please contact XXXX XXXX at any time before 29th December 2007 after which the offer will lapse.

 

I would like to apologise that on this occasion we have been unable to provide a satisfactory resolution as providing a high level standard of service is a top priority for us. We take complaints very seriously and I would like to thank you for bringing this to our attention.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Richard Heaysman

Customer Relations Manager

Enc: Financial Ombudsman Service – “Explanatory Leaflet”

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone, quick question..

 

Sent our friends at Monument a CCA request, which they complied with in the timescales. It isn't right, for a number of reasons. Told them the account is in dispute, and sent the harassment letter off to them. The threatening calls have stopped.

 

Today received the latest statement, and it clearly shows additional interest being put on the account, and for us to contact them urgently.. blah blah.

 

Can they still charge interest when the account is officially in dispute?

 

Thanks everyone, hope your having a great day

be safe

JGG

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No they can't.

 

They van't demand payment, add charges or interest, pass the account to a thrisd party or pass information to a credit reference agency, whilst it is in dispute.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi everyone, quick question..

 

Sent our friends at Monument a CCA request, which they complied with in the timescales. It isn't right, for a number of reasons. Told them the account is in dispute, and sent the harassment letter off to them. The threatening calls have stopped.

 

Today received the latest statement, and it clearly shows additional interest being put on the account, and for us to contact them urgently.. blah blah.

 

Can they still charge interest when the account is officially in dispute?

 

Thanks everyone, hope your having a great day

be safe

JGG

 

 

NO they can't...but that doesnt stop them......mine has gone to court, so is also the subject of legal action, they are STILL chasing payment and STILL adding interest.

 

The latest gag the have pulled out of the hat is to transfer the account to barclaycard ????? I had no written confirmation of this, just one day a statement from barclaycard turned up saying I had missed a few payments.....:-?

 

This now opens the way for me to declare the agreement either void or at least unenforceable....due to various other things that have happened.

 

best of luck with yours :)

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Thanks for the advice steve, dave. I did think as much, just wanted my idea backing up by more knowledgeable people :)

 

I think another lil letter to my friends is in order here..

 

thanks again

have a great day

be safe

nige :)

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  • 1 month later...

Hi again everyone, after coming back from holiday, guess what we received in the post??

 

Only a default notice off our mates at monument.. Even though the account is well in dispute, and them not replying to the letter stating the cca isnt worth the paper its wrote on..

 

Any ideas as to what to do next with them??

 

thanks all

 

have a great day

be safe

jgg

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They will sell this account off next.

Same happened to me and I now have CapQuest on my back, even though they can't legally enforce it at all.

Oh well bad luck.

I'd be inclined to report them to Trading Standards at this point and possibly the OFT as well.

Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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