Help With Corporate Am Ex

[RobbieM073]

Hi, I am trying to get some advice on my corporate am-ex. Below is the history;

 

Hi, I have issued numerous letters to american express and the pre court letter recently. The have sent me a reply, stating that because the card is (was) a corporate business card it is different from a consumer credit card. I said to them on the phone that the charges were approx £283 per month, which me as a consumer was paying not a company or business. The total claim is for approx £2660. Can i proceed with court or is it correct a corporate account is different. I really dont know what to do now, and worried that if I issue court that they are correct.

 

Hi, I have received the letter from Am Ex today;

 

"Firstly, the American Express Corporate Card is a charge card not a credit card and therefore the entire balance must be paid of in full and on time every month. The OFT recently expressed concern over charges in credit card contracts not charge card contracts, as they are not governed by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Secondly, we charge in accordance with the card member agreement. For each 30 day period your account is overdue we charge 2% and £15 for a one month period.

 

When you sign your card and every time you use it, you agree to bound by the terms and conditions of the card member agreements...."

 

Do I now go for the MCOL approach or are they correct? Has anyone been in this situation. My monthly interest/charges were £253 per month for 10 months!!!

 

I have had my final response from Am Ex and I dont know if they are correct or not. Can I take them to court or not?

 

"This letter is to inform you that I stand by my original decision not to refund these charges (and interest) to you and reiterate the fact that the Am Ex Corporate Card is a business product and not governed by the Consumer Credit Act and/or Consumer Contract Regulations. This account was set up on your behalf in accordance with your company xxxxx wishes and specifications."

 

The message back from work is that the company holds the parent account. If Am Ex is owed money they will take the card holder to court etc... and not the company.

 

I have a copy of the application form and it states joint and several liability for all charges on the card issued to the applicant.

 

Does this mean the agreement is between me and Am Ex also? Can i then therefore proceed with the MCOL procedure. Thanks

 

many thanks for anyone's help

Rob

[hagenuk]

Amex are of course correct that their product is a charge card and not a credit card and, if it is a corporate product then it is not designed for consumers.

 

However, if the charges that they have levied are penalties then you may issue a claim for them and attempt to recover them. You mention that you have been charged 2% per month (presumably on the outstanding balance) which is probably typical of an average APR for credit cards and therefore I wonder what it is you want to claim?

 

The monthly charge of £15 per month could be argued to be a penalty though.

 

Precisely how is your claim of approx £2660 made up?

[RobbieM073]

Basically it was 2% on balance every month for late fees - approx £283 per month for nearly 10 months. It eventually went to a solicitors were i paid it off monthly at a reduced amount but paid the balance back in full.

 

The latest letter was that the charges are valid etc etc..

[hagenuk]

I personally think that you may struggle with the interest portion of the claim, how much of the £283 per month was interest?

[RobbieM073]

I will have to check my file in work tomorrow. But it did say charges incurred £283

[Steve_P_W]

On 31st May I will start the Money Claim Online process against Amex to reclaim £250 from my closed Corporate account.

My situation sounds very similar to yours and I've had identical letter/s from Amex at each stage but I'm not going to let them deter me. I'm keeping it simple, not getting involved in unnecessary conversations with them and viewing their replies as diversionary tactics to put me off claiming my money back. .................Of course I could be wrong.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

[lizbillionaire]

Hi I am also in the same situation and have recieved the first letter saying it is corporate card and there for the rules are different, i will watch with interest as i am still going to reclaim and will post any further updates i might have good luck everyone.

[steven4064]

... have recieved the first letter saying it is corporate card and there for the rules are different...

 

Some of the rules are different. You can't use the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contrat Regulations 1999 as it is not a consumer contract.

 

However, the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 applies and, more importantly, the common law on penalties and liquidated damages in contracts applies. in fatc the case law that is mainly cited in these cases involves two companies (Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre company and New Garage & Motor company).

 

Steven

 

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[hagenuk]

I suggest that the issue here is whether or not what Amex have charged you is an unfair penalty at all.

 

We would have to know what the breakdown of the £283 that was charged per month is before we could be sure.

[Steve_P_W]

I agree. I'm no expert but if corporate cards managed by individuals aren't covered under the overall reclaim bank charges umbrella already then they should be, the charges are still unfair and isn't the whole exercise about reclaiming unfair charges.

In my case I believe that AMEX charged me unfairly for late settlement of my account as I was responsible for paying the bill, not the company I work for.

My company would only act as policeman if accounts weren't settled promptly, they were never involved directly in transactions.

[hagenuk]

What I meant was that I would no consider that 2% per month on any outstanding balance was actually a penalty - it is interest payable on a debt.

 

The £15 charge per month may well be a penalty, but one must expect to pay interest on money that one borrows.

[steven4064]

In fact 2%/month is 26.8% APR which is what most credit cards charge. Ergo a charge of 2%/month is not a penalty

 

Steven

 

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[RobbieM073]

Thanks for the info guys. My monthly statement states - American Express charge for late payment on your account £243.33 (for example). It does not say what the charge is broken down by.

Reading this I think I cannot do anything about Am Ex, as a charge is a genuine charge. Correct?

Rgds

Rob

[steven4064]

Rob

 

What does it actually say? And is interetest itemised seperately?

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[RobbieM073]

"American Express charge for late payment on your account £243.33"

 

That's what it exactly states on the statement.

[steven4064]

I suppose you don't have the T&Cs do you? The way that is worded looks like an unlawful charge. Is interest mentioned anywhere else on the statement?

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[RobbieM073]

Application Form – Joint and Several Liability

 

The Applicant (aged 18 years and over) and the Company join in this application for the issue of a Corporate card to the Applicant, including any renewal and replacement Cards and agree to be jointly and severally liable for all charges on the Card issued to the Applicant. A Cardmember Agreement will accompany the Card when issued. American Express may decline this application in its sole discretion.

Before signing this application, it is important that you read the paragraphs set out overleaf entitled “Use of Personal Information”, which set out how we collect and use information about you for the purpose of providing you with the Corporate Card service and other relevant products and services.

By signing this application, you agree that for the purpose of processing it, American Express will:

a) carry out credit checks with credit reference agencies, who may retain records of such checks, which records may be used (where permitted by applicable law) by other organisations in making credit decisions about you and members of your household for preventing fraud and tracing debtors;

b) use various statistical methods to evaluate your creditworthiness in deciding whether to issue a Corporate Card to you; and

c) contact your employer, bank or building society or any referee to obtain required to assess this application. This will include disclosing to your employer whether or not a Corporate Card has been issued to you.

n Use of Personal Information

If a Corporate Card is issued to you, you also agree that American Express will:

a) disclose information about you and your Card account to companies within the American Express group of companies worldwide to any other party whose name or logo appears on the Card issued to you, to your employer or any other person authorised by you, to our suppliers and to organisations who accept the Card in payment of goods and/or services purchased by you in order to administer and service your account, process and collect charges on it and manage the benefits or insurance programmes in which you are enrolled;

b) use information about you and information about how you use your Card account (unless you ask us not to) to develop lists for use within the American Express group of companies worldwide and other select companies in order that we or these companies may develop or make offers to you (by mail or telephone) of products and services in which you may be interested. The information used to develop these lists may be obtained from the Card application, from information on where and how you use the Card and from surveys and research (which may involve contacting you by mail or telephone) and information obtained from other external sources such as merchants or marketing organisations;

If you prefer not to receive offers of relevant products and/or services, please write to American Express Services Europe Limited, FREEPOST PO Box 580, Brighton, BN2 1YZ. Please provide your full name and Corporate Cardnumber.

c) exchange information about you and your Card account with credit reference agencies which maybe shared with other organisations in assessing applications from you or members of your household for other credit facilities or for preventing fraud or tracing debtors;

d) carry out further credit checks whilst any money is owed by you on your Card account (including contacting your bank or building society) and disclose information about you and your Card account to collection agencies and lawyers for the purpose of collecting debts on your Card account;

e) carry out further credit checks and analyse information about you and charges on your card account to assist in managing your account and authorising charges on it and to prevent fraud ;

f) monitor and/or record telephone calls to or from you, either ourselves or by reputable organisations selected by us, to ensure consistent servicing levels (including staff training) and account operation, and

g) undertake all of the above within and outside the United Kingdom and the European Union. This includes processing your information in the USA in which data protection laws are not as comprehensive as in the European Union. When you travel or make foreign purchases by mail, telephone or electronic mail, American Express may also disclose to or access your information in other countries outside the European Union in which data protection laws may not be as comprehensive as in the European Union. However, American Express has taken appropriate steps to ensure the same level of protection for your information in the USA and other countries as there is in the European Union.

 

 

If a Corporate Card is issued to you, we will send you details of how we protect your information. You will also be given the opportunity to have your name and address removed from any marketing programmes.

Above is a copy of the application form, I have received a letter from them stating that interest is charged at 2% and a £15 late payment. But in all the statements I have it does not say interest, it says late payment charge. there is no breakdown on the statements.

[steven4064]

So could the £243.33 be 2% of your balance + £15?

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[RobbieM073]

This is what I cant work out - the balance is 6687.12 (2% is £133.74and £15 fee, total £148.74) But i get charged £229.01. Next month balance is 6924.88 (2% is £138.49 and £15 equals £153.49) I get charged £237.76. This continues for about 9 months. The 2% and the £15 is approx £140 but I am charged anything from £80-120 more per month).

But throughout each statement it does not give a breakdown just a late payment charge.

 

Thanks for your help with this. I have been struggling to progress it for the last 2 months.

[steven4064]

Daft question - have you tried asking Am Ex how it is broken down?

 

Steven

 

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Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[RobbieM073]

No - not yet, I did not want to write or telephone them and it goes against the case in anyway. I can try and ask them.

[steven4064]

I don't think it will go against your case and I don't think we are going to be able to resolve the question without extra information. You could just ring customer relations and ask

 

Steven

 

If this post is helpful, please click the scales

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability.

Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

[RobbieM073]

Ok will do it now - thanks

[querkyone]

Any update with this case guys??

 

I am looking to chase back for the same kind of thing

 

Querky