Abbey filed defence

[Aoife]

Abbey has filed its defence, looks pretty standard - no mention of the Lloyds case but can someone tell me if this paragraph is normal:-

"Further or in the alternative even if teh said fees are not proportionate to teh defendan's adm expenses incurred (which is denied) the claimant remains liable to pay such fees as may be found to be proportionate and the claimant is not entiteld to claim repayment of the full amount of each charge made to the account."

 

Cheers Aoife

[JAMES33]

Aoife - I think this is standard, it is certainly exactly the same paragraph I had on my defence. Don't let that worry you though, they will still settle in full if you keep going! Good luck with your claim and keep posting!

[Aoife]

Thank you James33, that has put my mind at rest. I thought it might be a new thing.

Many thanks Aoife

[elisedriver]

Sounds identical to the defence I received today from the Abbey.

 

Full transcript can be found here.

[madoldbat]

Hi there - I got exactly the same response on mine. I ignored it, carried on with my claim and then got a hearing date of 17 August! I have written to the Court asking for it to be brought forward if possible, not likely though, but have sent my evidence off to both Court and Abbey anyway and now wait for the date. And Abbey's Evidence. Anyone else got this far? Been to Court yet?

 

Regards and good luck with yours,

MOB

[Aoife]

Hi Elisedriver, thanks just read yours and yes mine is identical.

Aoife

[elisedriver]

That's why I put everything I get in regard to this case online.

 

It helps show everyone is getting the same treatment and fed the same bog standard template letters.

[pimp_my_bank]

All seems rather standard Abbey...im into them for £4k, reading previous posts of peeps in this position, Abbey seemed to be offering a 50% full and final settlement, I had my defence 2 weeks ago...without this offer (was anyone else offered this or have abbey done away with this tact now)

 

Rec letter from court last week, stating that AQ isnt required...again after ploughing through previous posts...this seems to be normal... i have today send the court a copy of my charges (forgot when i did it through MCOL) with the template letters....tomorrow I will be sending the court another letter and abbey a nudge letter see below.

 

Dont know if this helps anyone;

 

Sorry for the long post...just some info which may be useful

 

Here is a letter you could send to Abbey when you receive that notice from the court:

 

Abbey Nat

Usual address

 

Re: XXXXX - v - HSBC

account no,

claim no and filing date(mcol).

 

It has come to my attention that as of xx/xx/07, ( date of the letter from the court) that an Allocation Questionaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £xxxx. (rounded down to nearest pound-keep this as your full amount including charges, interest and court filing fee). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges. I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Sincerely,

[Your address]

 

 

 

To send to Judge

 

[date]

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

You -v- Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

It is noted that in my case referenced above that the Allocation Questionnaire has been dispensed with. I am aware that this is likely due to the large volume of claims that consumers are bring against the high street banks. I am also aware that to date the banks have failed to defend a case in the courts and that they often use the court process to extend and delay the period of time within which they deal with these matters satisfactorily.

 

In light of this the Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the enclosed draft order.

 

The Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of any hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent on it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[name]

 

enc: Draft Order

 

 

 

THEN ON A SEPARATE PIECE OF PAPER - THIS:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

 

 

1. The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

• b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

• c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

• d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

• a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

• b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

• c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

• d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

• e) Any witness statements.

• f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

send it to the judge as a respectful suggestion. If he agrees, great, if he doesn't, nothing lost.

[colpac]

Yes its the same defence letter i got. I got it through from abbey but have heard nothing from the courts yet. I also did not get any 50% GOGW.

[elisedriver]

No offers at all from Abbey for me - never mind a 50%

[colpac]

I did get a £670 offer in the early days, not bad when you consider im claiming £4,000 !!

[pimp_my_bank]

yeah, im claiming about £4k, I only got their derisory £235, cheeky buggers!!!

[cicitina]

Hi , i've just received the very same thing myself!!! It is worrying me too cos basically they are saying whether the charges are unfair or not , we signed up to comply with their charges (t and c's etc) , i think its a put-off tactic. I'm due to get my court date soon so i'll find out. U had yours??

[pimp_my_bank]

nope, still waiting for direction from judge...i went to bham county court today..informed that I id still have to pay the Allocation Fee,

[cicitina]

Allocation fee? a new one to me!! since registering on this site (today) i've found out that basically i am no way ready for court!! i need a court bundle too apparently! This rate i'm hoping at last min Abbey will give me a good offer cos this all sounds a bit scary and over my head!!

[pimp_my_bank]

Hi Cici, nothing to worry about...i promise...you need to spend a bit of time reading other Abbey threads...I was the same as you...all a bit daunting...but trust me, everything you will need is on this site, if you dont know, just ask....I am in no way an expert...just spent a lot of time reading threads and getting me head round it....the high probability is that you will not go to court...however you need to be ready to

[unlawfulbankers]

Hi, I have also received a Defence from Abbey the same as Elsiedriver's I now await correspondence from the Small Claims Court. Note Madoldbat has got a court date for August. I did receive a cheque for £230 early on as a good will gesture(I'm claiming £4.800!), which I returned but have not received any 50% offers.

What is this Allocation Fee - have not received any info re this?

[unlawfulbankers]

Pimp-my-bank, have just re-read you thread and don't understand? Have you already been to court? What do you mean you are awaiting direction from the judge?

[Lula]

I think that they mean that they are awaiting directions having filed the AQ, is that right?

[colpac]

All i have had is a letter from northampton court(MCOL) saying it is being transferred to my local court and that the Allocation Questionaire will be dispensed with unless the local Judge rules otherwise.

I guess i just wait for a court date now.

[pimp_my_bank]

Yep, looks like we are all just awaiting directions from the judge, I believe the Allocation Fee is usually paid with the Allocation Questionairre, however, as this has been dispensed with in all Northampton CC cases, the fee still needs to be paid (this is what the lady at Bham CC told me)

 

I havent paid this yet (my car has cost me a furtune this month, but thats a different story) and dont know whether paying this would hurry it along a bit:confused:

[pimp_my_bank]

Well thats a turn up for the books, I sent the nudge letter end of last week (one in my previous post, stolen from other thread, thanks) just had an email.

 

"Without prejudice"

Dear Sir,

We refer to your letter dated 18 March 2007 (though received by us today).

Whilst we thank you for your offer, with respect, we do not agree that a £0.53 reduction in the quantum of your claim represents a genuine willingness on your part to resolve this claim without recourse to the Courts. Your offer takes no account of the unauthorised transactions that have in fact occurred on your account. There must be a charge for these unauthorised movements.

In the interests of pursuing settlement negotiations with you, Abbey is prepared to make payment to you in the sum of £2995.68. Any payment would be made without admission of liability by or on behalf of Abbey. Payment would be in full and final settlement of your claim. Payment would be made into your account (if open) or posted to you.

Should you wish to accept this offer, please advise by return in order that payment can be processed.

Kind regards,

 

 

Now, my claim is for just under 4k, what do i do, know its my call, what would you do in my shoes, advice appreciated?

[colpac]

My claim is also for £4,000 and i personally would not settle for £3,000 , you have come a long way to get this far and i would think you could negotiate a better figure quite easily , as reading other posts it seems everyone is offered a reduced amount before finally getting the full amount.

 

I have sent my nudge letter today in the hope it has the same results as yours as it has seemed to moved you up the ladder.

[Guest amethystdragon]

I would respond to it with the comments that if they would like to give you a full and frank breakdown of their true costs then you would be willing to negotiate another amount but until they do - that is your final offer - there is a suitably worded response on here hold on I'll go find it

 

Here we go - Take a good look at conncat's thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/69269-conncat-abbey-5.html

[unlawfulbankers]

Have also received letter from Nothampton Court saying it is being transferred to my local court. Again appears same letter as Colpac - says the allocation questionnaire be dispensed of unless the District Judge rules otherwise. Still awaiting court date etc.