TheAnalyst Vs Littlewoods (Default Removal)

[TheAnalyst]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice, I CCA'd Littlewoods on the 21.03.2007:

 

 

Legal Direct Recs

Credit Control Manager

Littlewoods Finance Company

Aintree Innovation Centre

Park Lane

Bootle

L30 1SL

 

Date: 21/03/2007

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

After recently obtaining copies of my credit file from Experian & Equifax I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice with both credit reference agencies against a “Littlewoods Flexible Account” in my name at the following address.

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

 

Further to this, I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

 

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

 

 

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

 

 

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

The Analyst

 

 

They replied on the 11.05.2007 with the following and included a copy of a standard credit agreement with my name and address (not the address the account was held under, my new one!) filled in in pen at the top.

 

 

Letter Reference CCA2

Date: 11.05.2007

Account Number: XXXXXXXX

Outstanding Balance: £263.63

 

Dear Mr Analyst

 

If a third party is acting for you please refer this to them

 

With reference to your letter dates 21.03.2007, requesting a copy of the credit agreement.

 

Under sections 77 and 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are required to provide a copy of the executed agreement (if any). On the assumption that you have signed the aggreement supplied to you at the time of opening your account. We have enclosed a copy of out agreement, which complies, with the requirements of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Littlewoods Finance Company LTD.

 

 

So ...

 

They have only provided me with a copy of their current credit agreement, my agreement was back in 2003 and I never signed one, this I'm 99% sure about as I opened it over the phone and was never sent anything to sign, they have also filled in with a pen my current address not the address that the account was held under at the top of this copy agreement.

 

They seem to have completely ignored my request for a copy of the signed default notice, can they do this?? Is there any law which states that I'm entitled to a copy of the default notice, its not part of the CCA I dont think? I 100% never received any default notice back in 2003 from them.

 

 

Where do I go from here ...? I'm thinking another letter reminding them that I asked for a copy of the default notice which they ignored and also that I never signed any agreement therefore they have no right to be passing this info to the CRA's?

 

Any templated letters or anyone have any pearls of wisdom as to what my next step should be?

 

Thanks!

[spitting kitten]

They have ignored my request too so I have sent a complaint to the O.F.T and the Information Commissioner. I then had a sorry excuse of a letter from Littlewoods stating that they have been flooded with requests and that they are working through these as quickly as possible. Still no sign of default notice though am waiting for O.F.T and I.C.O to get back to me. I had another default removed from my credit report by getting OFT and ICO involved without court action. could be worth a try.

[TheAnalyst]

They have ignored my request too so I have sent a complaint to the O.F.T and the Information Commissioner. I then had a sorry excuse of a letter from Littlewoods stating that they have been flooded with requests and that they are working through these as quickly as possible. Still no sign of default notice though am waiting for O.F.T and I.C.O to get back to me. I had another default removed from my credit report by getting OFT and Information Commissioners Office involved without court action. could be worth a try.

 

Thanks for the reply, appreciate you taking the time.

 

Would you mind explaining the circumstances around you getting that default removed, what happened? What did you say to the OFT and Information Commissioner?

 

Thanks!

[TheAnalyst]

I just got a letter back from littlewoods stating that as they do not have an agreement they are no longer persuing the debt however it will be marked as unsatisfied on their own files for future reference. With regards to the default placed on my credit file they will not remove it blah blah blah

 

Can they really refuse to remove this default even with no credit agreement and not sending a copy of the default notice? I'm not sure what to do from here, the default was my main worry not the actual paying of the outstanding balance ...

 

Any suggestions?

[car2403]

Without being able to back up your "default" with paperwork, it's illegal as they haven't followed process - they need to have a signed true copy of the original agreement and the resultant default notice, otherwise it can't be flagged against you.

 

From the sounds of it though, they won't be pursuing you for the debt which is a win, but you need to reply with the letters in sequence to get the default removed.

 

Take a look here;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/11659-how-get-your-default.html

[TheAnalyst]

Appreciate the reply, thanks!

[TheAnalyst]

This is the letter that I have drafted to have the default removed after they have admitted they have no signed credit agreement.

 

Credit Control Manager

Littlewoods Finance Company

Aintree Innovation Centre

Park Lane

Bootle

L30 1SL

Date: 18/06/2007

 

Account number : XXXXXXXXX

 

I write to you with reference to your letter dated 01/06/2004 confirming you will not be pursuing the amount of £263.63.

 

Not only do you not have a signed credit agreement you have not complied with my request for a copy the original default notice.

Consumer credit law states that a default notice must be sent usually giving 14 further days to pay and clearly explaining your company’s intentions should it not be adhered to.

I have never received any such default notice and I am of the opinion that Littlewoods never sent one in the first place therefore I hereby give you a further 14 days in which to either supply me with a signed copy of the original default notice or written conformation that you have made arrangements to have this default removed in its entirety from my credit file with the credit reference agency Experian.

 

Without a signed credit agreement or having sent a default notice you are not only in breach of the Consumer Credit Act but also the Data Protection Act because with no signed credit agreement you do not have my written permission to disclose information regarding my account to credit reference agency’s or any other 3rd party.

 

If you fail to comply with my request within 14 working days from the date of this letter then I will have no choice but to escalate the matter including copies of all letters sent to and received by your company to the relevant authorities including the Office of Fair Trading and the Information Commissioner's Office.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Analyst

 

 

Does this seem ok? Anything I should add or remove?

[fairy 123]

Hi Analyst,

 

Just wondering if you have had a reply from littlewoods yet....

 

thanks

[kennyparkroad]

im in the same position

 

littlewoods say they have no agreement but went ahead and slapped a default on my file anyway!

 

(check my thread Me vs Littelwoods) i could use all the help i can get

[TheAnalyst]

No reply from them as yet I'm afraid.

[TheAnalyst]

Right, I'm really starting to get p!ssed off with Littlewoods and could really do with some help in putting together a letter.

 

No reply as yet from the above letter BUT after them admitting that thay do not have a signed credit agreement AND them stating that they will not pursue the £260.63 (which I never asked for at any point) I have just received a letter from them stating that this debt has now been sold to Wescott!!!!!!

 

So...

 

1. They dont have a credit agreement (suprise suprise)

2. They have stated in writing that as the debt is unenforceable they will not be pursuing the remaining balance

3. They have failed to provide a copy of any default notice and refuse to remove the default

 

AND NOW THEY HAVE SOLD THE DEBT TO WESCOTT???????

 

That cannot be legal? They cannot sell on a debt that they openly admit is unenforceable can they????

[Andy Williams]

As far as I am aware a creditor or DCA may pursue a debt if they believe it to be genuine ....even if the debt is unenforceable in court. The same with statute-barred debt.

 

However although there is nothing legally wrong with them asking for repayment of a genuine but unenforceable debt....you are under no legal obligation to repay it.

 

Infact if a creditor or DCA continue to press for repayment of a debt which you have confirmed you will not pay (as it's unenforceable) then you may report them to trading standards for harrasement.

 

To answer your question 1)there is nothing legally wrong with them selling an unenforceable debt (as long as it's not disputed) 2) there is nothing wrong with Wescott who were stupid enough to buy it chancing their arm for repayment..until you confirm you won't pay.

 

Finally from what I have read you can write letters until you are blue in the face but Littlewoods will not remove the default. I would try 2 options either take them to court (they will probably not show up) and get the judge to take it off under section 14 of the Data Protection Act......or write and offer them the £260 on the basis they totally remove the default entry. However this may be difficult if they no longer own the alleged debt.

[TheAnalyst]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the reply, as always very helpful.

 

What about if I CCA Wescott, obviously they will not be able to come up with an agreement, I read on various posts that DCA's tend to send the account back to the original creditor when unable to fufill a CCA request, do you know if this might work even after they have bought the debt rather than working on behalf of the original creditor?

 

I figure this way I could then offer the £260 as you stated on condition that the default is removed and failing that take them to court as a final option?

 

Thanks again!

[Andy Williams]

The answer is I don't know if it will work. You need to make it clear to Wescott that you will not pay as it's unenforceable..so yes you could do a CCA request. However to save time you may want to tell them from the outset that Littlewoods have already told you that their is no executed agreement.

 

As the amount is comparitively small I doubt if they have paid more than a few pennies to buy it....if anything. Maybe they split the money if you pay, or they work the sale of the debt on some sort of sale or return basis whereby they return the debt if they cannot collect.

 

It all depends how important it is too you to get this resolved quickly.

 

As well as confirming to Wescott that you will not pay I would write to Littlewoods offering an ex gratia payment to clear debt and remove default...though making it clear that you will take court action if they do not accept and that you would win any subsequent court case plus compensation at the discretion of the court etc. In otherwords ignore the fact the ownership of the debt is is hazy.

 

In the long run they want the £260 though it won't mean much to them..and you want the default removed which probably means more to you.

[rocky2005]

Hi all

 

I have the same problem littlewoods defaulted me.

 

I requested a cca and default notice 3 weeks ago and still no reply they cashed my cheque on 11/8/07

 

shall i send another letter to littleoods or go to OFT and ICO

 

thanks

[car2403]

Hi Rocky and welcome to the forums.

 

Please start your own thread in the same sub-forum, posting any wording of letters/actions you've taken to date and the replies you've had, so we can see give you detailed advice to your questions.

 

Posting in another user's thread makes the forums complicated and generally means you won't get a swift response to your questions.

 

Once you've created your thread, post a link in reply here and we'll see what we can do.

 

Power to the people!

 

[TheAnalyst]

Just to update:

 

Nothing back from Wescot after me sending them a letter advising them that Littlewoods have no agreement and that I will not be paying them anything unless they can comply with a CCA request.

 

I now have the cash to clear the balance in full so I think I'm going to write to littlewoods again offering to pay the full amount on the grounds that:

 

A: No CCA, no default notice and,

B: I actually have another account with littlewoods that I opened lat year that's all up to date and that is they want to keep me as a customer then as a GOGW that consider removing the default on receipt of payment.

 

Wish me luck!

[car2403]

Call me naive, TheAnalyst, but why you are paying the full amount that you owe? If the debt is unenforceable, whats to stop you offering 50% with Default removal as a condition of settlement? 50% in your pocket is better than theirs - and, if they have any sense, they will accept your offer to cover up the mistake they've made by having no agreements!

 

If I were you, I'd start by offering 25% of the balance and see how the land lies - if they refuse, up it bit by bit until they accept on your terms.

 

Nothing ventured...

 

Also - I'm sure I'm teaching you how to suck eggs here - but make sure you have a written undertaking from them that they will remove the Default or you may have a Court case on your hands once they've took your money to get the Default moved.

 

Keep us posted...

[TheAnalyst]

I hear you Car but to be honest I owe the money and I'm happy to pay it in full if they remove the default.

I dont actually think they will accept this as they seem to be pretty stubborn as far as removing defaults go so failing this I'll be going to court.

 

I'll 100% be asking for this in writing prior to paying anything, I realise this is the only way to go ... Welcome finance were happy to put it in writing and to accept £1700 on a £3500 debt including default removal.

[kennyparkroad]

whatever suits for you mate do it.

 

I had a balance of £2,000 that i didnt owe and they have defaulted me, they wont accept the fact, No valid executed agreement, means NO DEFAULT as a default implies you have broken the terms of a written contract (the cca) but there is none.

 

taking them to court.

[Allan87]

If I haven't signed any credit agreement with Littlewoods am I obliged to pay any late payment fees?

[car2403]

If I haven't signed any credit agreement with Littlewoods am I obliged to pay any late payment fees?

 

Technially, yes as they will probably form part of your contract. The resultant debt would be unenforceable under s.61/s.65/s.127(3) of the CCA 1974 though.

 

It would be worth your while starting your own thread Allan87, with details of what you've done/where you are now so we can offer detailed assistance.