Muffintop N Nailard V Lloyds Bus Acc

[Muffintop]

OK after much deliberation and reading various pocs this is it thanks to french connection courtersy of gary mod I think. Would someone clever cast an eye over it b4 I post it to Watford CC.Its one of the shorter business pocs but as long as it encompasses what is needed then that seems sensible to me.

 

 

LLOYDS TSB BANK PLC

 

_______________________

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

______________________

1. The Claimant has a business account xxxx sort code xxxxxx("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 22nd December 1993.

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contact on the part of the Claimant and also interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the defendant contents that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of costs incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the common law. The precedent for the law relating to contractual penalties was set in the case of Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co. Ltd v New Garage Motor Co. Ltd. (1915 AC 79. Additionally, in the case of Murray v Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ 963 it was held that a contractual party may not only recover damages in respect of its actual loss or liquidated lossess.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) The return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £2,375.93

 

b) Court costs; £120.00 to date

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Court Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

6. Alternatively. If the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982)

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

Signed ..... signed....................

 

Date:

 

 

comments on a postcard please! skeggsy,

[Muffintop]

should I post this rec del to the court in Watford?

[nevos]

Hi was reading through the other thread join forces etc. So am bumping this one. I'm not sure if you need to refer to the T & C as in the new POC's for none biz accounts?

[Muffintop]

sorry cant help you on that one? would just do a standard poc for non buss account as they appear to still being used. I desperately need a comment on my poc so I cant send it off. skeggsy

[Tigerlily.2]

Hi Skeggs

 

So pleased to see your new POC for ltsb business claims.

 

I've been asking for some for a sole trader for weeks with no luck,

so would love to borrow these with your permission.

(I hope you won't mind since you have posted them?)

Let's hope someone gives you the thumbs up that they are OK very soon.

 

Thanks, Tigerlily2

[Muffintop]

thanks tiger, as i cannot get anyone to really comment, i have to assume they are going to be ok as I got them from frenchconnection who got them from gary a mod, going to stick them in got to be better than mcol and doing via an n1 direct to court, along with a letter with info to dj saying that this is a business account and should not be stayed, there is a link for the oft which you might want to take a look at. skeggsy

[Tigerlily.2]

Thanks Skeggsy, let's get going then!

 

Good idea about a letter pointing out that business accounts should not be stayed - now I've got to worry about the wording for that ... will definitely look at the oft link, thanks.

 

Does anyone know if a business claim has been stayed yet because of the test case?

 

Have to use the N1 route, not enough room to fit it on the MCOL.

[Hogbucket]

Yes mine has - Hogbucket v Lloyds.

 

I was supposed to be in Court today 14.30 received a letter Friday from the Court and one from SC&M - Court granting SC&M's request. Does not give me time to do anything.

 

I am turning up at Court today anyway and I am going to object to the stay. I have already filled in form.

[Tigerlily.2]

Very sorry to hear that - [problem] leaves things to the last minute so there is no time to take counteraction.

 

The judge at our hearings did not address the substance of the cases at all - just whether or not parties had complied with directions- luckily [problem] had not and so we won. I sincerely believe the courts are not interested in the issues (or just don't understand) and just want us all to go away! Do hope you can get your message across and persuade the judge to lift the stay.

[Muffintop]

Thanks Skeggsy, let's get going then!

 

Good idea about a letter pointing out that business accounts should not be stayed - now I've got to worry about the wording for that ... will definitely look at the oft link, thanks.

 

Does anyone know if a business claim has been stayed yet because of the test case?

 

Have to use the N1 route, not enough room to fit it on the MCOL.

 

 

Always use the N1 its a full poc whereas mcol isnt sufficient and you can attach your schedule of charges there is already a letter listed on the bussiness account thread by photoman I think will see if I can find it but would suggest you subscribe to that thread.

 

tip my little scales if iv helped you.

Skeggsy

[Muffintop]

Obviously, we have to wait and see how any such stays if ordred are actually worded, but here is my first draft request for lifting a stay for Business claimants;

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You -v- XXXXX Bank Plc

Claim Number: *******

 

I write in relation to the matters as detailed above, and specifically the order of a stay in proceedings made by district judge XXXXX on **/**/**.

The basis upon which a stay has been granted is with regards to awaiting the outcome of the ongoing "test case" currently being taken by the OFT against several banks.

I respectfully request that this stay be lifted. This is upon the contention, that as the central focus and grounds for the OFT’s case is to determine whether or not the charges are subject to the test of reasonableness, as required under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR 99), then it is not of any consequence to the basis of my claim in this case.

 

As a Business account claimant my claim did not include any reference to nor make any reliance upon the UTCCR. As such, it would serve no purpose to delay proceedings in order to await the outcome of a case that would have no bearing or relevance upon this case.

 

As such I respectfully request that the current stay be lifted so that this case may proceed without further delay.

 

 

Yours faithfully

this is all on the business thread mentioned higher up on my thread.

tip my little scales if iv helped you.

SKEGGSY

[Tigerlily.2]

Hi Skeggsy

 

Thanks for posting your draft letter requesting the stay to be lifted -

 

I reckon that this could easily be tweeked a little and be used as a letter to go with the N1 saying why a stay should not be imposed, if you don't mind?

 

How did you get on at court today, Hogbucket?

[Muffintop]

no woz tiger, i also wonder how hogbucket got on at court, the letter isnt mine its off the business thread. whats your thread so that I can check it out and subscribe? skeggsy

[Tigerlily.2]

Thanks for the letter anyway - whose ever it is!

 

As well as [problem] asking for a stay, when Hogbucket got to court he found that the Judge had put a stay all bank claims, so he's applied to have it lifted.

 

My previous threads were all about claims on our personal accounts - now satisfactorily concluded! I haven't started one as yet for the business claim, cos I'm still gathering the energy to fill in the N1!

[Hogbucket]

Tigerlilly

 

Just to clarify - SC&M had asked for a stay which Judge had given.

 

I have applied for this to be lifted - hearing probably in Sept.

 

The Court Manager told me that the Judge in Weston was putting all cases on stay until after the OFT hearing.

[Tigerlily.2]

Seems that blanket stays were part of the deal agreed with the banks to get them into court. They must be saving them millions of pounds in paybacks and admin!

 

If we go ahead with our business claim, we will probably be in the same position as you. Perhaps if enough people apply to have the stays lifted - and from what I've read this is happening in great numbers - public pressure will win.

 

What gets me most is that we all know business and card claims should be exempt anyway!

 

Let's hope you get a result in September.

[Celicaman]

Skeggs, Having looked thru your POC, i notice your account is from 1992, When do the charges start to apply to your claim, as if any charges are pre 6 years, i think you need to add into it a section about the limitations act as per PM's POC. The bank may have not mentioned it but im sure it wont do any harm putting it in. My business claim HSBC have not mentioned that half of charges were 1 year pre 6 years, so am adding it before they start their defence.( busy on with POC now )

I may steal your letter ref the stay to file with it.

 

Celicaman

[Muffintop]

sori been inactive for a while, become dispondant after the oft and my other claim stayed. have sent this bus claim in via n1 to watford cc, not had an acknowledgement back from them yet which is odd will chase it up 2moz. skeggsy

[Muffintop]

Sorry for not being on site for a while I guess after my claims were stayed with abbey and barclays I lost heart in light of OFT, I still continuted to lodge the business claim though and I almost feel guilty saying this has been the easiest ride so far.

 

I stuck it in on an N1 full POC then just sat back and did nothing, we got an offer today 2 weeks prior to the 28 day cut off period.

Unfortunately again this money isnt mine but my partners and he is in diar need for his business. I get another payout towards my wedding dress.

 

Morale of my post. dont give up heart, eventhough the OFT has scuppered a lot of our plans for the moment I still managed to get the buss claim through in less than a month. skeggsy

[BARTY]

Congratulations!!:D

Barty:)

[Muffintop]

Hya a nice passing mod may put this thread in successes I wont this case last year 2k. It was my partners case now my husband sorri its taken so long to end the thread we got married and it sort of took over. skeggsy

[foolishgirl]

Well done Skeggs - press the triangle to ask a mod to move this to successes.

[saintly_1]

Thread moved to successes as requested