Advice Wanted with Lloyds Court Action

[angelcat]

Hi,

 

I've been going through the process with Lloyds since the start of April. Up to this point the case has proceeded as outined in the step-by-step how to guide- the most recent development before now being the case being transferred to my local court.

 

However, yesterday the following letter arrived which I do not understand. I've edited it for length, but haven't missed anything significant here:

 

"Upon the Courts own motion. The court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to this order you may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The action be stayed until 13th June 2007 for settlement by mediation/negotiation or for narrowing of the issues.

 

Within 7 days of the end of the period of stay the parties shall notify the court of the outcome etc etc"

 

Not being a lawyer/genius I don't understand this. I was under the impression that the negotiating part was step 1- asking for it back- and they've already refused. If anyone can answer the following please help. Note that I can't afford any further court costs (I borrowed the amount to enter court proceedings in the first place) if there is any possibility of appeal.

 

I also only have about 4 more days to appeal.

 

Has this happened to anyone else specifically with Lloyds, and what was the outcome?

 

Do I need to contact Lloyds (AGAIN!) or will they contact me? I've naturally already been through the whole shebang of negotiating for a refund which is why I'm in the court proceedings!

 

If they don't repay the full amount or offer me a settlement what should I say in my letter to the court at the end of this period?

 

If Lloyds contact me directly to "negotiate" or offer full payment what should I say to them? Would an amended version of the template letters for step 2 be appropriate- demanding full repayment for the charges?

 

I requested interest on my charges as I assumed it would reach the court stage anyway, and wanted to demonstrate that I meant to follow this to the end. Will I be entitled to this if Lloyds now offer the refund voluntarily?

 

Is this standard practise or am I a special case? I'm only asking for £1050 in returned charges, hardly a landmark case.

 

Thanks everyone.

[angelcat]

Hi,

 

I've been going through the process with Lloyds since the start of April. Up to this point the case has proceeded as outined in the step-by-step how to guide- the most recent development before now being the case being transferred to my local court.

 

However, yesterday the following letter arrived which I do not understand. I've edited it for length, but haven't missed anything significant here:

 

"Upon the Courts own motion. The court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object to this order you may apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

The action be stayed until 13th June 2007 for settlement by mediation/negotiation or for narrowing of the issues.

 

Within 7 days of the end of the period of stay the parties shall notify the court of the outcome etc etc"

 

Not being a lawyer/genius I don't understand this. I was under the impression that the negotiating part was step 1- asking for it back- and they've already refused. If anyone can answer the following please help. Note that I can't afford any further court costs (I borrowed the amount to enter court proceedings in the first place) if there is any possibility of appeal.

 

I also only have about 4 more days to appeal.

 

Has this happened to anyone else specifically with Lloyds, and what was the outcome?

 

Do I need to contact Lloyds (AGAIN!) or will they contact me? I've naturally already been through the whole shebang of negotiating for a refund which is why I'm in the court proceedings!

 

If they don't repay the full amount or offer me a settlement what should I say in my letter to the court at the end of this period?

 

If Lloyds contact me directly to "negotiate" or offer full payment what should I say to them? Would an amended version of the template letters for step 2 be appropriate- demanding full repayment for the charges?

 

I requested interest on my charges as I assumed it would reach the court stage anyway, and wanted to demonstrate that I meant to follow this to the end. Will I be entitled to this if Lloyds now offer the refund voluntarily?

 

Is this standard practise or am I a special case? I'm only asking for £1050 in returned charges, hardly a landmark case.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Parkvale]

Welcome to the forum. My best advice to you at this moment is to start a thread on the Lloyds forum. Where there is plenty of help available. Good luck.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/

[remus]

Hi Angelcat,

I beleive the courts are doing this to make the banks settle with out wasting the courts time, as the court knows this is what usually happens:)

It is worth giving [problem] a call, as they would have received the same as you.

 

Keep checking your account.

 

If they dont respond positively, then you carry on with the court claim.

I have read that settlements include the interest and fees:D

 

Hope this has answered some of your fears, I see it as only positive, happy to be corrected:p

 

Best of luck

[remus]

Just found this have a read AQ's - Stay's & STRIKE OUT REQUEST

[remus]

opps maybe not, thats if [problem] have asked for a stay not the Court, will keep looking:)

[mickand]

Angelcat, If you don't mind can you tell us what court this is from?

[Mistermind]

Angel, not everyone will see your new and urgent thread, suggest you post a link in the main Kevin v Lloyds threads to direct to this thread, Donnalou has done the same. Possibly in the Brennan thread as well.

 

For "stay" read "postpone" -- the court took the initiative to invite both parties to postpone, in view of the day-to-day rapid developments.

 

I suggest following the Kevin sensational first verdict the court anticipates both the defendant and the claimant will both be varying their submissions (this IS happening) and possibly their expectations. On one day recently 77 cases were listed for court, but not one case came before the judge, who (poor man) had to do preliminary reading of 77 bundles for nothing.

 

There is no point presenting the same submission as in Kevin's case without new evidence and new arguments, the verdict is likely to be the same, although some CAGgers disagree. Other judges will have read up on Judge Cooke's verdict and

The court obviously wants to save its own time and effort.

 

Not sure if your charges arose from straightforward bouncings where Kevin's involved 15 permitted overdrawings. If your claims are good, your Contractual Interest reclaim should be good.

 

This is just the situation I have been wondering about. Following the Kevin verdict, and the Brennan verdict unknown to me currently, whether banks will have their tails up and change their entire stance, switching to barristers defending claims, in which case you wll need help from CAG Mods -- if you object to the court's invitation to postpone to June 13th.

 

As for extra cost, the court mentioned nothing. If you are short of the readies, and there are signs of a protracted legal war ahead with many postponements, you might like to consider whether you would settle for second best, cash in hand rather than bird in the bush. Do consult other opinions.

 

Best regards.

[remus]

found this #26 (permalink) GaryH vbmenu_register("postmenu_664886", true);

Moderator

 

 

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Up [problem]'s nose....

Posts: 4,320

 

Re: bowen vs lloyds

Attempt to narrow the issues by sending this letter to SC&M, also with a copy to the court - Nationwide first.Lloyds last but not least ***WON*** (amend to suit)

 

Then, if/when they don't respond and when the stay period expires, print off and send a new AQ (no need for another fee) - http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...9_web_1105.pdf. It would be advisable to use the new strategy - http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....tionaires.html

 

Also send this with the AQ -

Quote:

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

YOU v LLOYDS BANK PLC

In the ***** COUNTY COURT

CLAIM No:*******

 

Pursuant to the order made by District Judge ***** on **/**/**, I, the claimant, hereby confirm that no settlement has been reached with regard to the claim as detailed above, and as such I respectfully request that it proceed to allocation in accordance with the overriding objective.

 

Dispite the Defendant making a request for the stay by indicating an intention to negotiate a settlement on their allocation questionnaire, with regret I must inform the court that the Defendant has attempted no contact whatsoever during the period of the stay.

 

Further, I contacted the defendant by way of a letter on **/**/**, in attempt to initiate the dialogue for which the stay was intended, and in an attempt to narrow the issues in dispute. Unfortunately, this correspondance was not afforded the courtosy of a response.

 

If the court is in agreement, the Claimant respectfully suggests that directions may be made as per the attached draft order, with document exchange taking place 28 days after the issueing of the order. It is suggested that an early date for exchange of documents may facilitate a prompt resolution to this litigation.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[angelcat]

Thanks for all this guys,

 

Brief History of claim:

 

Claim is for: two bounced cheque charges, several failed d/d charges, several over overdraft charges (mainly due to charges going out along with d/d's, debits etc). One o/o and d/d charge date amounted to £160 between them.

 

1. Letter sent asking for refund- response that charges are service fees.

2. Letter sent unsatisfactory response- no response

3. Moneyclaimonline- borrowed the cash for the process!

4. Defense filed on last possible day (darn)

5. Transferred to local court (Stockport County Court)

6. Letter recieved- court ordered stay

7. PANIC

 

Slightly confused as to misterminds response. Could you/someone summarise it in eejit's terms for me? Brain not work good.

[remus]

Have just found someone else who got the same order from a judge, please do not panic, this has happened before. (will try again to find)

I understand Mastermind is very thoughtful of what is going on at the moment, and care is needed.

Hopefully someone will come along soon, who has had dealings with the same, and be able to advice you of your next step.

Your claim looks good, you are not asking for CI etc.

[angelcat]

Actually Remus (Lupin? ) The £1050 odd includes interest, however, it's about £950 without so it's not exactly massive!

 

Worried about sending letter to solicitors due to possibility of them offering part settlement to cover their admin charges at the bank- however suspect this won't happen due to them then admitting inflation of charges and leaving gates open for further cases to be settled in the same way!

 

FYI, everyone, the refunded charges, should I ever get them, will pay for the following:

 

After paying overdue bill and covering roughly £100 of debt (bank caused debts of about £800 which are now paid in full due to financially crippling repayment plan):

 

1. Give court fee back to kind lender

2. Get driving lessons/test so I can get a permanant job (currently temping) or a job out of the area I live in- there's loads I can't get to on public transport (in less than two hours)

3. Insure self on car

4. Any remaining funds to be used to get eye test and some much needed glasses to put an end to these headaches- my reading glasses are 9 years old...

5. Anything still remaining? Glasses for boyfriend, also headache sufferer due to poor eyesight- he lost his glasses about 10 years ago

6. Still got some cash left? Might treat myself to a new computer. Doubt funds will stretch to this though!

 

See? No splurging, I actually NEED the money. No way I'm going to be able to afford driving lessons in the forseeable future.

[pward33]

Have a look at this thread by GaryH angelcat. Hopefully it'll put your mind at rest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/78216-aqs-stays-strike-out.html

[angelcat]

Two points I probably should have made:

 

• The court order moving the case to my local court stated that there would be no allocation questionaire. I have not had to complete this, neither have the bank as far as I am aware. No mention of AQ's on the most recent letter ordering a stay either.

 

• The court have ordered a stay. Neither myself nor the bank have requested it, the courts have ordered it of their own initiative.

 

Continue advice please, extremely helpful. If someone wants to post some kind of step-by-step from where I am to step 3 (PROFIT!) that'd be lovely

[remus]

this may help Read BankFodders advice here on these type of stays Number6 -vs- Lloyds TSB **WON**

 

Read read and read some:p more

 

ps thanks for calling me a flower:) missed the e off me thinks:D

[angelcat]

Actually there's a character in the Harry Potter books called Remus Lupin- which is of course a nod to both the word "lupine" and Remus and Romulus. No sign of romulus in the books, though!

 

Reading comments now. Please continue to post helpful advice/cries for advice relating to this topic!

[Mistermind]

Angelcat -- my own views only, do consider others' views.

 

Straight cheque and D/D bouncings -- I believe the claim here is on much sounder basis. If the bank refused payment and ruined your financial reputation, where did the "service" come in? Regardless of splitting hairs on T&C terminology this was a pure penalty.

 

Overdrawn Charge ("mainly?" prefer exclusively) due to the bouncing charges above -- these claims are also straightforward. Had the former not occurred, the latter need not have occurred.

 

Overdrawing permitted by manager manually -- this was Kevin's great difficulty, I believe reclaim for 15 such charges were attempted -- and dismissed alas in one bundle along with the other more straightforward reclaims. If the manager took time out and honoured your cheque at a risk of bad debt to the bank, may he not claim a service rendered, and a service fee. If I were reclaiming, I would be queasy about reclaiming such, in case I jeopardised the entire lawsuit.

 

As for my previous longwinded point, I was merely wondering and speculating if the entire rules of the game could change very suddenly. That if banks suddenly decide to fight and appeal, could all Small Claims Court hearings be postponed (like yours)

until a final verdict is delivered -- by the House of Lords, god help us, in what year? The people who have been paid out by banks already are sitting pretty, lucky them.

[mickand]

Sorry put not sure if you missed my question earlier but can you tell me what court this was from as I am going through the process and am waiting for information from Southend Court.

 

Thanks

[angelcat]

Stockport County Court, as written above in a long winded response to a few different comments.

 

Good luck to you!

[mickand]

Stockport County Court, as written above in a long winded response to a few different comments.

 

Good luck to you!

 

 

Sorry missed that!

[HSBCrusher]

hello angelcat... I got your PM, but it seems you have got your answer already.

I have merged your threads for you.

 

Crusher

[angelcat]

Thanks guys, this is all really helpful. I'm going to print off the letter and send to Lloyds solicitors. Does anyone know their address or who I should write to specifically?

 

Wish me luck

[angelcat]

I've just read over the letter and lost my bottle. Any ideas for a slight redraft - I'm terrified of losing as I can't afford to - there's stuff in the letter about list of 17 cases settled by the bank etc etc - where are these lists - if they don't respond with a settlement should I write letter 2 to the court and do I have to fill in a scary AQ with it considering that the court decided no AQ would be necessary in the first place - has anyone had this order to stay and had the money credited before the end of the stay period or am I definitely going to have to re enter negotiations?

 

PLEASE HELP!!

[Mistermind]

Angelcat,

 

You said your court's request to "stay" the trial until 13th June, but did not mention your current scheduled trial date.

 

On the one hand there have been Lloyds full settlements actually completed within the past 7 days -- could this be because the Lloyds juggernaut once set in motion, needs time to stop?

 

Just received my letter of settlement from scm. They've worked out the interest in a slightly different way to me (ie they haven't deducted the goodwill payment from the original claim when calculating interest due from the day I filed the NI to the day of settlement), but since it's in my favour, I'll not bother disputing it.

Since I now have their written settlement (rather than just money deposited), I shall get my Wasted Costs letter off to the court. I'll post here when I get the judge's response.

Meanwhile..... I know that, as someone who's received settlement, it may seem easy for me to say that ALL claimants should remain positive despite yesterday's aberration at Birmingham CC. But think of it this way: if Lloyds really thought they had a hope in hell of winning that case, they wouldn't have settled my claim (nor the hundreds of others) this week. Just keep looking out for the ****WON**** titles -- there will be no slowdown in the numbers of them appearing in the Lloyds forum or any of the others on CAG. It is business as usual.

Which is why I'll still be hanging around this forum -- I've got another claim going through against Lloyds (credit card) and will be filing N1 in the next week or so.

On the other hand there have been a spate of postings indicating a new Lloyds decision to stand and fight, which involves changing the Lloyds defence bundle at the last minute using post-Kevin material. I believe Madkit's trial is scheduled for tomorrow, if you PM Madkit and compare notes. CAG forum contains over a million threads, not easy for parties with the most in common to find each other.

 

I have a court date on Thursday for which I already had an offer and declined as I am holding out for a bigger offer. I received a letter this morning from bank that they faxed to the court they are trying to consolidate all claims into 1 and change Thursday's court date. They are saying I didn't provide breakdowns of charges for the 2 small claims, this is untrue as they have had all the details. They are amending their defences for both claims and have enclosed a copy of Judge Cooke's approved judgement. I will be sending a full court bundle to both court and the solicitors on Monday but I am now quite worried about this and didn't do this before as the AQ was dispensed with.

Do I need to do more? Do I need a solicitor?

 

If you refuse the "stay", are you saying you do want to face up to Lloyds barrister in court within days? Assuming Lloyds have now made a strategy switch for a barrister to stand and fight in court. If so are you ready and prepared for a one-hour grilling by the judge and barrister as happened to Kevin? Have you improved on all the legal points on which Kevin was beaten?

 

I gather CAG are now frantically collecting Lloyds T&Cs to strengthen the point where Kevin came a cropper, but such consultations with a retained barrister will take a little time. The question is whether you want to fight solo now, or fight on 13th June after CAG Mods have sorted out a new position and given you pointers and evidence. What is Madkit doing tomorrow?

 

Do seek other advice, most especially from CAG Mods in the Lloyds frontline. My postings are only opinions. Best of luck.

[angelcat]

Thanks Mistermind, I haven't actually had any reference or indication as to a trial date at all- just that it had been moved to my court, that it didn't require an AQ and now that it has been stayed.

 

Don't fancy fighting a barrister in court anyway, any volunteers to come to court with me if it comes to that? I've been hoping all along that it won't come to a court hearing- just out of fear really- although I'm sure I have an excellent case I'm not sure that the spun grilling from Lloyds wouldn't just go straight over my head.

 

No, what I need now is a good letter to send to the solicitors for Lloyds so I can demonstrate to the judge that I have attempted contact and that I am a reasonable person etc etc. But, as I've said above, this asks more questions, and I don't want to make things difficult for myself- I need to know my case in and out so I can argue it if necessary.

 

Please, some kind volunteer, help me understand, prepare, and fight!!