LTSB - Request under the CCA

[b8byd]

Hi guys

 

I haven't posted for a while, as i've been finishing my final year at uni (one more exam to go and then its all over!)

 

My partner requested a copy of the signed credit agreement on his Personal Loan with LTSB on 22 March.

 

At the end of April we received "Your Gold Service Loan Statement" which shows all the payments we have made on the account from 4 May 2002 (when it was opened) up to 3 September 2003. It shows that on 3 September the balance was 10,041.18 (hadn't even gone down - we borrowed 10k!). Then the next entry was also on 3 September 2003 showing a loan repayment of the total balance, leaving a balance of 0!

 

Either we have a mystery donor or the bank resettled this loan without my partner's knowledge. He certainly does not remember signing a new agreement or even speaking to them about it. We have been paying (via the CCCS) minimum payments on this account for a couple of years now and we are still paying. The CCCS tell us the balance is now over 12k.

 

Do you think its safe to stop paying them until they produce a CA? If they do produce the original one (where the balance is 0) does that count for the new loan (assuming there is one)?

 

I hope this makes sense. Our hope is to eventually settle this loan with them at a significantly reduced rate (by reclaiming charges on other debts) but we don't have the finances to pay any lump sum at present. It would truly help our financial situation if we stopped paying and they went away because they haven't got a CA. Yes I know the moral ramifications but we're too skint to worry about that now.

 

PS there are no 'late charges' or anything on this account as far as we can see - just extortionate interest.

 

Thanks for any help and advice - it would be much appreciated!

 

b8byd

[b8byd]

Update on my last post. We didn't stop paying them, and after another look at our Consumer Credit Counselling Service docs discovered that we have been paying into a different account number than the one my other half opened. So looks like the loan account was resettled without his knowledge for some reason.

 

I CCA'd them on the new account number, and we got a letter this morning saying:

 

Thank you for your letter requesting a copy of the credit agreement for your loan.

 

The loan account you have quoted I have been unable to trace.

 

I have checked all of your records and would ask that if you have any other information which may help me find the loan, then I would be more than happy to provide you with any copies requested.

 

So... we have two different account numbers - one is the original and one is what we are currently paying into via the CCCS. CCA'd both, and no credit agreement has turned up.

 

We are trying not to get excited yet... but looks like this might be our lucky day??

[b8byd]

Still nothing from LTSB. But still paying as we are too terrified not to. I don't think they'd let us get away with it, balance is over 12k (only borrowed 10k in the first place).

[e_inspired]

Hi b8byd,

 

As I understand if they can't provide you with the contract they can't enforce it, basically if they have defaulted/commited an offence by not supplying the CCA then you can with hold payment until they meet this request.

 

If you are really worried about stopping payment try:

 

1. Sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) you can get templates/info from this site.

 

2. Writing a complaint letter stating the fact that you are paying money into an account that does not exist, if they don't respond or sort it out then you can escalate it to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) for futher investigation.

 

Did you get a default notice? what account was that issued for?

 

Hope some of what I said helps.

[b8byd]

Thanks e-inspired, yes you've helped. Your post has prompted me to take another look at the entry in my partner's credit file. Experian lists the details of the account as follows:

 

Started on 04/05/2002 (tallies with the date we took the loan out)

 

Defaulted on 08/09/2003 (couple of days after the mystery settlement on the original account number)

 

But the credit entry is still being processed (the last printout of our credit files was feb 2007 and it said data updated to period 21/01/2007)

 

Confused

 

But thanks for your advice - I will send a S-A-R as this should provide everything they have right? Which account number should I put? And then if we still don't get a signed agreement we'll stop payments and see what happens. Sounds like a plan!

[Dispirited]

Think I'd get some advice on this. Try sending a PM to Rory.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/member.php?find=lastposter&t=105847

[b8byd]

Thanks Dispirited, i've just PM'd Rory

[birchave0]

did your loan include any PPI???

Mine did, I claimed it all back in March.

Because I cancelled all of my d/d s (I was fighting with Halifax) I haven't made a payment since March. Although I have a current account with Lloyds they never sent me a new d/d form to set up a new one! I have not had a phone call, a letter, nothing about this loan!

I have online banking and every time I check it's just sitting there, not getting any bigger, it just says next payment due 1st of next month. 1st of next month comes, I don't make a payment, and it just moves on to the next month.......

very strange.......

I did tell them I was going to report them to the oft because of the way they missold the PPI, maybe they are waiting for the outcome...

Loan stands at 5k...

Balls in their court:)

[b8byd]

Wow thats interesting. Yes, we've got a statement to say we did choose insurance to protect the payments. I'll ask my other half when he gets home from work if he remembers signing up for that.

 

How did you manage to get all the PPI back?

[birchave0]

Wow thats interesting. Yes, we've got a statement to say we did choose insurance to protect the payments. I'll ask my other half when he gets home from work if he remembers signing up for that.

 

How did you manage to get all the PPI back?

have a read of my thread Birchave0 v Lloyds PPI * think I've won*

I said that they made me take the PPI or I would'nt get the loan!

It worked! I can get you addresses etc who to write to etc, it's worth a try.

birchave:)

[rory32]

Then the next entry was also on 3 September 2003 showing a loan repayment of the total balance, leaving a balance of 0!

 

Normally this means that the debt has been sold. However this does not seem to be the case here.

 

As they are in default of supplying a copy of the credit agreement you can legally withhold all payments until one id produced if you show wish.

 

Regarding the SAR, a SAR is for all the information that a company holds on you and is not for a specific account unless you specify that it is only for a specific account. I would therefore send a SAR without an account number on it and let them find your account details.

 

Hope that helps........Rory

[fuzzywuzzy]

Some debit management companies used to buy your debits at a stupid reduction and with out the customers knowing.

 

Then they profited by having the payments on the repayment agreement actually paid to themselves as well as a payment for managing accounts.

 

I would also get on to the debit management company, may be SAR them to get them to confirm with out failure that the acount number is one of LLoyds accounts and that you are actually still paying LLoyds.

 

Fuzzy

[b8byd]

Thanks Rory, I will send a S-A-R today. Then we'll know for sure what they have. Do we just request any documentation we are entitled to receive under the Data Protection Act?

 

Fuzzy - I get what you're saying, but our debt management co are the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, a registered charity endorsed by the CAB - surely they wouldn't be profiting from their clients' misfortunes?

[b8byd]

Sent S-A-R by special delivery - 40 days is up on 1 September

[rory32]

Do we just request any documentation we are entitled to receive under the Data Protection Act?

 

Yes.

 

I don't believe CCCS have anything to do with this mess and the fault lies with LTSB.

[fuzzywuzzy]

Fuzzy - I get what you're saying, but our debt management co are the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, a registered charity endorsed by the CAB - surely they wouldn't be profiting from their clients' misfortunes?

 

Definately not them then, with hope LLoyds have lost your details, Wouldn't that be realy realy nice;)

[b8byd]

It would be amazing! But somehow I reckon its just my local branch not looking further than the end of their nose. I bet its hidden away somewhere; and as soon as we stop making payments it will suddenly appear!

 

I'll keep you posted......

[fuzzywuzzy]

If its any consolation I sat in a LLoyds office last week with! an employee it took 2 hours of ringing in house to find which department had my loans. for some reason they were at Off Shore banking:confused:

[b8byd]

- -

[b8byd]

Just to update you guys on this one.....

 

We heard nothing further after I sent the S-A-R in July last year.

 

That is until November, when we started getting threatening letters from BLS Collections (seems to be an in-house debt collection department of LTSB).

 

We ignored their letters for a while as we knew they didn't have a leg to stand on, but then it got a bit much as they were sending some hefty threats about once a week.

 

On 15 Jan I sent them a quick letter reminding them that the debt is in dispute and that their continued harassment is unlawful.

 

Then we get a letter from IQOR (formerly Legal & Trade) threatening a bailiff visit.

 

So I wrote to them on 1 Feb, basically stating the same as before, and demanding that they cease contacting us until such time as we have been supplied with a copy of the signed credit agreement. We have received a reply from them that they have placed the account on hold and are reverting back to their client.

 

And then we received another letter from another debt collection agency, Apex Credit Management Ltd (formerly BCW Group PLC), and I basically just sent the same letter as before to them. Haven't heard back yet.

 

I get the feeling that LTSB are just not going to give up on this one!!

 

But then, thanks to some great advice from this forum, neither are we..

 

Will keep you posted.

[b8byd]

No more letters or calls since my last post. So far so good.