Leeds Mercantile Court Hearing 28th June 2007

[neonron]

Neonron,

 

A case management conference (or directions hearing) is not the trial. It is a discussion/conference to decide the way forward. The judge may give directions to either party to facilitate the way forward, eg you have asked for disclosure at items 5 and 8 on the CMI sheet. The Judge could direct the bank to give you that information.

Hopefully the bank will either settle your claim before the 28th June or on the day.

 

Sorry I can't help you regarding looking thru your case papers. I shouldn't worry too much. If you don't get a settlement before the 28th there will be lots of others at Court in the same position as you, so providing yours is not the first case of the day, you can pick useful info up as the day progresses.

 

Can anybody in the Wakefield area help Neonron please (see his posts)?

hi thanks calc what would i do without you.

im hoping they do too but well as my luck is tends to be all bad im getting ready with everything including the court bundle etc... and as last week they returned a dd for 8.65 cos it would have put me ova my account limit by 85p there charging me 35.00 so they got a fight now i aint giving in to anything less than what they owe

but still hoping that soemone near me can help me go through things b4 next week .thanks and good luck to us all next thursday

[j.barton1]

Are we all getting ready for next week? Best of luck to all of us!!

[stan5131]

Got a letter from Barclaycard this morning with an offer and asking me to phone them. Their offer was for half the amount because I had to estimate charges pre May 2004 because of the michrofiche excuse. They didnt want to settle with the estimated charges.... so off to court we go.

 

For anyone else. I think if your charges are not estimated, they will settle in full inc interest and costs.

 

Stan

[jamesnmammy]

Was Due in court on 28th of June Yorkshire bank Sent me a cheque for the full amount of my claim 2755.17, along with a letter saying they still didnt believe they were in the wrong but court cost would be more than my claim, good Luck everyone else XX:D

[maybelline]

Beverleyt,

 

Just seen your post of a few days ago (Ive been away). It is imperative that you contact the Court if you can't be at the hearing. With a possible settlement pending, it's up to you how long you leave it before notifying the Court that you won't be able to attend, but don't leave too late. You will probably have seen from the 26th April hearing that a claimant did not turn up at Court and had not notified the Court. The case was struck out and the Judge ordered the claimant to pay the defendant's costs!!

 

calculator, can I just ask - I have a hearing coming up but no defence was received by the court, I have not had an AQ but they made an Application to have my claim struck out and they counterclaimed for their costs based on me getting the full name of the company wrong, I have also done an Application in response to correct the name on my original N1, is that enough, the time limit for their defence has come and gone but the clerk at the court said they do not need to send a defence because of the hearing re the Application (is this a stalling tactic I wonder) I am assuming since their request for costs is that I have no chance of winning and the claim is unreasonable (!) and they do not exist i.e. wrong name, - will no longer apply once this error is corrected,

 

sorry jumping in here, I really hope folks do not mind.

[neonron]

Are we all getting ready for next week? Best of luck to all of us!!

hi

just thought id ask if you are in the list for the 28th and if you are anywhere near leeds or wakefield i need some help b4 we go on thursday my email address is on my thread , hope to hear back asap.

[Mrs Goggins]

Hi, I too have 28th June at Leeds. Problem is, since I received the letter from Mercantile Court regarding the date, I have just received letter dated 20 June from Cobbetts (Natwest solicitors) requesting further information to CPR18 by 4 July 2007!. What's going on! I'm sorry but I'm completely confused now! What to do? Where to go? - CAN ANYONE HELP!

[neonron]

Hi, I too have 28th June at Leeds. Problem is, since I received the letter from Mercantile Court regarding the date, I have just received letter dated 20 June from Cobbetts (NatWest solicitors) requesting further information to CPR18 by 4 July 2007!. What's going on! I'm sorry but I'm completely confused now! What to do? Where to go? - CAN ANYONE HELP!

hi check out the section on cpr18 on site hun, but if it was me id prob ring em and make sure theyre aware your incourt on the 28th june hopefully theyll settle on or b4 the 28th but if not still give u time to send the information , im not 100% so perhaps calculator may be able o shed a little light on it too for you ,

[donbracho]

hello all well its getting closer and closer aint it !

have booked the day off work anyway so am in fro the long haul with this one

I went down to the court and asked if i would have to fill an n244 form out and was advised that no the amended schedule of charges and CMI sheet would suffice I filled in question 4 as advised by Calculator (cheers!).

 

I am in the process of getting the bundles together having bought loadsa ink and paper lol, however i reread Gary H excellent thread here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

where he says if you have a directions hearing no bundle is necesssary just these documents

 

Stuff to take with you;

Allocation hearing Witness Statement

Draft order for directions &

Reason's why they should be ordered

Copy of this order - page 1 & page 2 (to demonstrate that other courts are already routinely ordering those directions in small claims cases)

Statement of evidence (to refer to if necessary)

*Copy of the text of the Lincoln 'abuse' order

*List of settled cases

 

 

*Optional - take if you want to show it to the judge and politely suggest that a similar order may be appropriate in your claim.

 

 

So i am just asking if that along with all correspondence reguarding the claim schedule of charges too would suffice ?

[Leebcoward]

What outcome can we expect should the banks not settle before the hearing on thursday?

[Leebcoward]

Question. So do we need the paperwork mentioned in the Donbrancho thread for this hearing on thursday? Previous information suggested we needed nothing but the Case Managment Sheet already submitted. I have a complete court bundle that people are saying is not needed. So what do we need? What can we expect to happen? Will the judge even speak to any of us? Do we have to submit further paperwork on the day? Do the banks need to even show up? Will this all lead to a court date? HELP!

[j.barton1]

Hi, We should take whatever we thing we'll need to put our case forward. This is a big step for us and hopefully only a small handful will get into the court room. GaryH has put the great peice together..

Stuff to take with you;

Allocation hearing Witness Statement

Draft order for directions &

Reason's why they should be ordered

Copy of this order - page 1 & page 2 (to demonstrate that other courts are already routinely ordering those directions in small claims cases)

Statement of evidence (to refer to if necessary)

*Copy of the text of the Lincoln 'abuse' order

*List of settled cases

I am also taking extracts from the limitations act as my case is +6yrs..

A must is an upto date schedule of charges and interest, If they are going to settle there..they need to know how much for.

 

Jenny

[donbracho]

hey up mate i have read a few peopels threads on this the 26th april one is really helpful in turn:

the judge is very helpful will be looking for the banks to either settle or be prepared to take this all the way, it depends which bank you are dealing with some may just send a represetative ? , last time round loads settled bar one or two some did so on the steps outside court some got cheques that day in the post !

I think if you are ready with your full bundle you dont need to worry really i was debating whether or not to print and copy out all the bundle and then as it appears to be a directions hearing to bring the stuff required to argue for small track etc.

[Leebcoward]

OK guys...Got my CMI sheet, Witness Statement, Draft Order and reasons why they should be ordered, Statement of evidence with the following attached: OFT report April 2006, House of Commons Early day Motion, BBC Commission Conclusion, Nichole Rich report, All correspondence between me and Bank and I'm throwing in some stuff on Whistleblower and CYNthesys as my claim is with Yorkshire Bank. Please please, please tell me thats all I need and all I have to do now is absorb it and understand it!

[zsazsa]

From what I know of the previous hearings a Court Bundle is not necessary. Donbracho is right when he says it is a directions hearing.

Purplesilk, if you get as far as going to the hearing, besides what you have listed don't forget to take with you all copies of corrrespondence that you have had with the bank both pre and post claim submission. I would also have thought it useful to take the relevant extract from the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, i.e. copy the pages containing Regulation 5(5) and Schedule 2 item 1(e) from that document and a list of the relevant penalty cases , eg Dunlop. It is those documents which form the basis of your case. Also any terms and conditions (T&Cs) from your bank appropriate to the time of the charges.

 

Can anybody who has actually attended a Leeds Mercantile hearing give the definitive as to what documents to take to the hearing please.

 

For those who have not seen yesterday's report by the BBC: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/98610-bbc-news-1-today.html

 

Hey hey Y'all!

 

I'm sorry Calculator - been so busy didn't realise you needed an answer! Basically for the CMC I took all the correspondence I'd had between myself & LTSB, a couple of copies of the schedule of charges, and the completed CMI sheet, plus notepad & pen. The CMI sheet should have been submitted 7 days prior to the CMC, however - the court staff were fine & it didn't seem to be a problem that I handed it to them on the day, before entering court. I had to request for my claim to be ammended as LTSB hadn't settled in full (see my thread Zsazsa's mum v Lloyds) but the Judge dealt with the ammendment actually in court, so there was no problem there & as it happens I didn't have any forms to fill in myself as it was all handled by the court staff.

 

Remember! Try not to worry too much everyone - HH Judge Kaye QC wants a definitive ruling on the bank issue & minor errors are swiftly handled & smoothed over. You don't need the full court bundle - this is only a CMC - directions hearing where the court decides how claims will progress in the future, if they're not settled on the day. You will have time & plenty of direction/help from the court if your bank doesn't settle.

 

The courts are there for us just as much as the banks - they want justice -so no need to be scared!

 

That said - Good Luck!

 

Zsazsa

[zsazsa]

Just noticed in post 113 you say you're going to argue for claim being transferred to small claims court - you won't get this donbracho - this Judge won't let it out of Mercantile court - says he's going to keep all these claims together & deal with them all en-masse as opposed to letting them go & the costs/time for dealing with them individually escalate. This is good news - it means if there is a ruling it's in High Court by a High Court Judge rather than by a District Judge in Magistrates Court which isn't a definitive answer anyway.

 

Zsazsa

[donbracho]

hey up zsazsa thanks for the info I for one was getting into a bit of a muddle !

I see what you mean about not using the arguements for small claims i thought cause it were a directions hearing all that would be needed plus court bundle cheers again.

[Calculator]

Thanks Zsazsa.

I hope Zsazsa's post 115 is helpful as to what documents she took to the 26th April case management conference/directions hearing. Don't forget to also take a copy of your claim form and be well versed in the basis of your claim, ie Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, Regulation 5(5) and Schedule 2 item 1(e) and the Law of Penalties cases, eg Dunlop etc. Also if the hearing of your case gets that far and the opportunity arises, don't forget to repeat your request for further information and disclosure by the defendant as per items 5 and 8 on your CMI sheet, ie cost incurred by the defendant for each of the bank charges arising from your account exceeding the overdraft limit.

 

Mrs Goggins (post 107), in answer to your question about the bank asking for further information under CPR18 by 4 July, it seems a nonsense when the hearing is on the 28 June. You could take no action regarding their request before the hearing. At worst all they can do is repeat their request at the hearing. Alternatively you cpould phone them to remind them there is hearing on the 28th. Do you require any further info as to what CPR 18 is about - if you do, you can access it on the threads 'Mercantile Court Guide' or 'Case management Info Sheet'

See post 120 for more thoughts.

[Leebcoward]

Thanks for the help guys...Getting a little twitchy as it gets close...better check my suit fits ok!

[Calculator]

Mrs Goggins (post 107),

 

Further to my reply at post 118, I have had more thoughts:

 

Is the information that the solicitor is requesting reasonable for you to give?

Do they already have the information?

If they don't already have the information and it is a reasonable request, then why don't you give them the information as soon as possible before the 28th hearing date. That way they cannot hold it against you at the 28th hearing - you don't want them turning up and saying that they are awaiting information from you.

If you still have a problem with this, can you let us know what information the solicitor has requested so that we have a full understanding.

 

Regarding my earlier reference to the 'Mercantile Court Guide' and CPR18 click here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mercantile-court-cases-stays/34297-mercantile-court-guide.html See post 3 of that thread.

[Calculator]

maybelline,

 

Sorry, I have only just seen your post 105 in amongst others.

Also sorry that I don't know the answer.

All I can suggest is that you phone the Court for advice, or better still visit the Court office and talk to them face to face.

One thing does strike me: if the claim has been issued in the wrong name, ie to a non-existent company, surely there cannot be a claim for costs against you because the defendant is in effect non-existent.

If the Court system does not allow you to correct the name on your current claim and the case does get struck out because of the wrong name, then presumably you could start another claim in the correct name?

[Calculator]

Regarding the questions that have been asked about what documents to take to the case management conference/ directions hearing on the 28th, I have again read through posts 109 onwards and the threads and documents referred to in those posts and I think some further clarification might be useful:

 

Donbracho (post 109) and J Barton (post 112) have referred to Gary H's thread 'Got a Court Date? a Guide to the Later Stages'.

I feel that it is important to note that Gary H's thread does not appear to have been written for the Mercantile Court.

It would seem that when Gary H wrote it, it was on the basis that the claims were being dealt with in the County Court (not the Mercantile Court) and more than likely would proceeed down the Small Claims Track. For example in the Witness statement that Gary H provided as an example, it requests the claim to be dealt with on the Small Claims Track. This is not the case in the Mercantile Court which operates on the Multi-track. Therefore, although some of Gary H's material may be useful, don't treat it as being the 'be all and end all'. Some of it may not be appropriate to the Mercantile Court (and the hearing on the 28th).

 

See Zsazsa's posts (posts 115 and 116) regarding her experience at the 26th April Mercantile Court hearing and also my post 118 and matreb's post 123 that follows.

[matreb]

Based on what I have seen at the two previous Leeds hearings, all the posts previously made that this is a directions hearing, not a trial, are spot on....BUT

 

1. Make sure you have copies of all correspondence with the bank and your claim forms etc, including any information already provided to them.

 

Several reasons for this:

(a) if the bank fails to appear, or ther representative denies having instructions about your case, you might be able to prove they were given due notice etc;

(b) if the bank asks for more information from you, you want to be able to show they've already had it; and

© The Judge might ask if there is any other information you need - it is a great opportunity to record your demands for missing statements, agreements etc.

 

2. If there have been any prior requests for documents / forms from the court DO fill them in and take them with you. However, if there have not, do not worry about phoning the court to ask whether they need anything extra.

 

3. Take along a spare set of up to date calculations on your claim and what you will settle for, inc interest and costs. The banks may still settle on the day, but this is almost impossible without the numbers - they seem unable to obtain these themselves at short notice!

 

4. Per other posts, the Judge in previous hearings has been excellent at explaining the process on the day, answering questions etc. You'll have at least half an hour at the start to watch and listen before the Judge starts running through the lists of cases to see who has turned up, and which cases have or might settle. Even then there will be at least one adjournment to see which cases settle before you would have to say anything.

 

Bottom line - prepare, take your documents, and work out your stance if the bank wants to settle.

 

Good luck!

[lousecutiepie]

I received a cheque for £2,400.00 on sat from YB £1,000.00 less than i was claiming - i tried ringing them this morn - they dont have a phone!! only fax so i faxed a letter rejecting the offer saying i wanted the full amount - has anyone else done this ?

[Calculator]

Lousecutie,

 

What you have done is fine. Don't forget to take a copy of your fax with you to Court if you don't get full settlement before then.